# Oh silly, of course they didn't mean it that way! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 28, 2005, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-silly-of-course-they-didnt-mean-it-that-way/337385 "2005-12-28T01:32:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Caffeine.addict](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f475e1/32.png) [@Caffeine.addict](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Caffeine.addict)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2005, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-silly-of-course-they-didnt-mean-it-that-way/337385/141 "2005-12-30T01:40:01Z")
> [@Rushgeekgirl](#): > > We weren’t able to get the license, unfortunately. So far we have to make do with a blessing from our pastor! 😉 You weren’t able to get a marriage license? Thats kind of screwed up. Hasn’t that made the immigration application that much harder? ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2005, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-silly-of-course-they-didnt-mean-it-that-way/337385/142 "2005-12-30T01:57:54Z")
> [@missbunny](#): > > Do hospital records, and especially the portion that a medical coder would have access to, describe someone’s citizenship status? I have my own medical records and I don’t believe this is mentioned. Oh, it does state my place of birth - which happens to be a foreign country - but then I would appear to be a “foreigner” although I was born a U.S. citizen. I would think the reverse would thus show children of illegals to be “American.” Is it that you don’t have the “hospital’s private records” but your MIL does? > > Could you give us the names of the hospitals that closed down due to illegal immigrants fraudulently obtaining ER services? That is, not hospitals that merely closed, but rather hospitals that closed for the reason you said they closed. Not to mention if MIL is looking up these peoples’ status based on being able to access their medical records, she’s probably majorly violating HIPAA and committing a crime herself. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2005, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-silly-of-course-they-didnt-mean-it-that-way/337385/143 "2005-12-30T02:39:23Z")
> [@Rushgeekgirl](#): > > We weren’t able to get the license, unfortunately. So far we have to make do with a blessing from our pastor! 😉 If you don’t mind my asking, what was the problem with the marriage license? ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2005, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-silly-of-course-they-didnt-mean-it-that-way/337385/144 "2005-12-30T02:50:34Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > If you don’t mind my asking, what was the problem with the marriage license? Is one required to show a birth certificate in order to get a marriage license? She did mention that he has had problems acquiring one. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2005, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-silly-of-course-they-didnt-mean-it-that-way/337385/145 "2005-12-30T02:55:55Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Well, heck, why not? If we’re going to punish children for not having the foresight to be born to legal citizens, why not punish people for not having the foresight to realize their actions might someday be outlawed? Your premise is flawed. Denying citizenship is not “punishment”. The rules for becoming a citizen are not etched in stone. Do European countries “punish” people because they don’t have the same citizenship rules we do? ---
**Author:** ![Cardinal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cardinal/32/4000_2.png) [@Cardinal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cardinal)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2005, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-silly-of-course-they-didnt-mean-it-that-way/337385/146 "2005-12-30T03:12:23Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > This is a good point. I, for one, only want children of illegal Mexican immigrants to get citizenship. The children of illegal Canadian immigrants can go fuck themselves. > > :rolleyes: You know that’s off the point. This is why I almost never get involved in these debates. The number of people even on this site who can have a real debate without name calling, straw man burning, or wild point-missing is disappointingly low. The number of illegal Canadians in America is insignificant. That’s why it doesn’t usually enter the discussion. FTR, I’m against their being here too. The bulk of the problem and debate is about Mexican and Central American illegal immigrants. But the whites or blacks who say that illegal immigration is ruining hospitals and that of COURSE there are Americans who do the lousy jobs (what do people think happens in Idaho and Vermont?) get called racist. The legal immigrant or Mexican-descended-Americans who say that it’s insulting that they play by the rules and then have everyone pile in behind them illegally get called “coconuts”. ---
**Author:** ![Updike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ec9cab/32.png) [@Updike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Updike)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2005, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-silly-of-course-they-didnt-mean-it-that-way/337385/147 "2005-12-30T04:09:31Z")
> [@Rushgeekgirl](#): > > I will be honest with every reply, despite knowing what sort of response I will get. Kudos for being honest. So in summary, your BF remains here illegally, has used fake id, and hasn’t paid his taxes. And that’s just the criminal stuff. On a societal level, he also hasn’t registered for the draft, served jury duty, or voted. It seems some people want to have their cake, and eat it, too. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![CynicalGabe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/3e96dc/32.png) [@CynicalGabe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CynicalGabe)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2005, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-silly-of-course-they-didnt-mean-it-that-way/337385/148 "2005-12-30T04:21:47Z")
> [@Updike](#): > > On a societal level, he also hasn’t registered for the draft, served jury duty, or voted. Well, your last two criticisms aren’t valid, since you need to be a citizen for those. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2005, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-silly-of-course-they-didnt-mean-it-that-way/337385/149 "2005-12-30T04:23:10Z")
> [@Updike](#): > > Kudos for being honest. > > So in summary, your BF remains here illegally, has used fake id, and hasn’t paid his taxes. > > And that’s just the criminal stuff. > > On a societal level, he also hasn’t registered for the draft, served jury duty, or voted. > > It seems some people want to have their cake, and eat it, too. :rolleyes: On the other hand, it seems he’s not you, so that’s one point in his favor. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2005, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-silly-of-course-they-didnt-mean-it-that-way/337385/150 "2005-12-30T04:25:23Z")
> [@Updike](#): > > Kudos for being honest. > > So in summary, your BF remains here illegally, has used fake id, and hasn’t paid his taxes. > > And that’s just the criminal stuff. > > On a societal level, he also hasn’t registered for the draft, served jury duty, or voted. > > It seems some people want to have their cake, and eat it, too. :rolleyes: I seem to recall something about someone bringing him here at age 12. And that he attempted to obtain proper paperwork, and was sold illegal scrip. One tends to allow a bit of mercy in circumstances like that. And you might note that they are (a) not hiding from the law, and (b) attempting to regularize his status as best they can. Now, where’s the proof that **you** are in this country legally … and that your parents didn’t take advantage of the citizenship-by-birth thing? I haven’t seen you pony **that** up while you’re jerking **Rushgeekgirl** ’s chain. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2005, 4:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-silly-of-course-they-didnt-mean-it-that-way/337385/151 "2005-12-30T04:29:41Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > Nitpick: he’s _applied for_ a green card (and I hope he gets it). I’m bringing this up now so **Updike** (who is, as **DtC** points out, a scumbag [IMHO, YMMV] 😛 ) can’t come roaring in here and claim to have caught you out in something, you criminal-defending, lookin’-the-other-way America hater. Nice attempt at a preemptive save. Unfortunately, it doesn’t seem to have done any good. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Updike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ec9cab/32.png) [@Updike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Updike)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2005, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-silly-of-course-they-didnt-mean-it-that-way/337385/152 "2005-12-30T04:37:31Z")
> [@CynicalGabe](#): > > Well, your last two criticisms aren’t valid, since you need to be a citizen for those. Yes, and that’s rather the point. He’s benefitting from living here, without paying the same costs as the rest of us. ---
**Author:** ![Updike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ec9cab/32.png) [@Updike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Updike)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2005, 4:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-silly-of-course-they-didnt-mean-it-that-way/337385/153 "2005-12-30T04:54:54Z")
> [@Polycarp](#): > > I seem to recall something about someone bringing him here at age 12. And that he attempted to obtain proper paperwork, and was sold illegal scrip. One tends to allow a bit of mercy in circumstances like that. One does? > [@](#): > > And you might note that they are (a) not hiding from the law, and (b) attempting to regularize his status as best they can. Regularize his status? What does that mean, when he shouldn’t be here in the first place? > [@](#): > > Now, where’s the proof that **you** are in this country legally … It’s called a birth certificate. Chicago, IL in 1967. Your point? ---
**Author:** ![waterj2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/858c86/32.png) [@waterj2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/waterj2)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2005, 5:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-silly-of-course-they-didnt-mean-it-that-way/337385/154 "2005-12-30T05:05:16Z")
> [@Updike](#): > > Yes, and that’s rather the point. He’s benefitting from living here, without paying the same costs as the rest of us. Well, legal immigrants also benefit from living here without serving jury duty or voting (I don’t know about the draft), and that’s certainly considered entirely proper. US citizens have been known, I’m sure, to take jobs under the table, especially if it is the only work they can get, which don’t show up on tax rolls. ---
**Author:** ![black\_rabbit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/f19dbf/32.png) [@black\_rabbit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/black_rabbit)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2005, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-silly-of-course-they-didnt-mean-it-that-way/337385/155 "2005-12-30T13:16:01Z")
> [@Updike](#): > > Kudos for being honest. > > So in summary, your BF remains here illegally, has used fake id, and hasn’t paid his taxes. > > And that’s just the criminal stuff. > > On a societal level, he also hasn’t registered for the draft, served jury duty, or voted. > > It seems some people want to have their cake, and eat it, too. :rolleyes: How the fuck did you miss this part, shithead: > [@](#): > > Paid taxes? From the time he got that fake SS number he was paying in with every check from the company he worked for where we met. > … > The tax number will be used for what he’s got down when files this year. (we got this from an IRS agent so it’s definitely legitimate) He will pay taxes on this when he files. He won’t, however, qualify for any benefits like EIC even though his earnings would fall under the maximum. Conclusion: He seems to be making every reasonable effort to pay whatever taxes he owes. Probably more so than your average small business owner, who seem to make a sport out of dodging the IRS. Ever get paid for mowing lawns as a kid? Have you reported that income to the IRS? What about reporting purchases made over the Internet or catalogs to your state tax bureau? Asshole. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2005, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-silly-of-course-they-didnt-mean-it-that-way/337385/156 "2005-12-30T13:45:54Z")
> [@Updike](#): > > One does? Pardon me, I should have said that **most decent people do**. > [@](#): > > Regularize his status? What does that mean, when he shouldn’t be here in the first place? Uh, **why shouldn’t he be here?**. We are not talking the stereotype of Juan Juetbac here, we’re talking about a 12-year-old imported for “slave labor” (if you don’t care for the term, choose a better) who attempted to legalize himself at the first opportunity. In my experience, twelve-year-old boys are not generally conversant with immigration statutes, and are often naive. Now, **he’s got his green card** , he’s attempting to make himself a legal resident. What in the name of Lugh Lamfhada’s lustrous lingam do you expect him to be doing? > [@](#): > > It’s called a birth certificate. Chicago, IL in 1967. Your point? Like myself, you were given at birth something that naturalized citizens (like my sister-in-spirit) work long and hard to accomplish. I find it truly hard to figure out why you begrudge someone else your good fortune. But I don’t wish that the attitude will come back to bite you on the ass. It’s hard not to, but I’m succeeding. Mostly. ---
**Author:** ![kidchameleon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/898d66/32.png) [@kidchameleon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kidchameleon)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2005, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-silly-of-course-they-didnt-mean-it-that-way/337385/157 "2005-12-30T16:04:55Z")
> [@black455](#): > > Ever get paid for mowing lawns as a kid? Have you reported that income to the IRS? You must have mowed a shit load of lawns to break the bottom tax bracket. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![saoirse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5daacb/32.png) [@saoirse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/saoirse)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2005, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-silly-of-course-they-didnt-mean-it-that-way/337385/158 "2005-12-30T17:04:27Z")
> [@kidchameleon](#): > > You must have mowed a shit load of lawns to break the bottom tax bracket. 😛 i know it’s a joke, but I’m pretty sure it’s a good idea to note that dependent minors are taxed in their parents’ bracket. ---
**Author:** ![kidchameleon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/898d66/32.png) [@kidchameleon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kidchameleon)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2005, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-silly-of-course-they-didnt-mean-it-that-way/337385/159 "2005-12-30T17:10:24Z")
> [@saoirse](#): > > i know it’s a joke, but I’m pretty sure it’s a good idea to note that dependent minors are taxed in their parents’ bracket. Eh? I never paid income tax when I lifeguarded. Social Security and Medicare, but not income tax. Maybe I deducted all my Speedos. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2005, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-silly-of-course-they-didnt-mean-it-that-way/337385/160 "2005-12-30T17:12:20Z")
> [@Updike](#): > > Yes, and that’s rather the point. He’s benefitting from living here, without paying the same costs as the rest of us. You fucking moron, don’t you realize that legal immigrants can’t vote, can’t register for the draft, and can’t serve on juries? It wouldn’t matter if he came here legally or illegally. Do you understand now? Or should all legal immigrants have to go home too? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-silly-of-course-they-didnt-mean-it-that-way/337385.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-silly-of-course-they-didnt-mean-it-that-way/337385.md?page=9)