# OH, so if he were a 400lb WHITE man on PCP it would be OK if 6 Black cops used force? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 2, 2003, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-so-if-he-were-a-400lb-white-man-on-pcp-it-would-be-ok-if-6-black-cops-used-force/216499 "2003-12-02T14:58:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 11\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![SPOOFE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@SPOOFE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SPOOFE)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2003, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-so-if-he-were-a-400lb-white-man-on-pcp-it-would-be-ok-if-6-black-cops-used-force/216499/101 "2003-12-04T22:06:01Z")
RE: Alternate forms of subduing suspects… Remember, any method of taking someone down is either going to be A: unreliable, B: dangerous for the cop doing the take down, or C: potentially lethal. Until we develop magic force fields and tractor beams that can just target someone and lift them in the air… ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2003, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-so-if-he-were-a-400lb-white-man-on-pcp-it-would-be-ok-if-6-black-cops-used-force/216499/102 "2003-12-04T22:09:14Z")
**Beagle** : [the Fox affiliate in Cincinnati](http://wxix.com/) has the whole video. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2003, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-so-if-he-were-a-400lb-white-man-on-pcp-it-would-be-ok-if-6-black-cops-used-force/216499/103 "2003-12-04T22:14:04Z")
BTW: I don’t know if this has been mentioned anywhere but word is the dashboard camera in this case has to be turned on manually (via remote) after the cruiser’s engine is shut off. You’d think that if the cops _really_ wanted to beat his ass, they would have left it off. ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2003, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-so-if-he-were-a-400lb-white-man-on-pcp-it-would-be-ok-if-6-black-cops-used-force/216499/104 "2003-12-04T22:28:23Z")
**Eve** : Don’t forget nurse anesthetists. They’re trained to administer cholorform and such-like, too. In fact, I think the term anesthetist pretty well covers both groups without leaving anyone out. ---
**Author:** ![Rilchiam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@Rilchiam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rilchiam)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2003, 10:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-so-if-he-were-a-400lb-white-man-on-pcp-it-would-be-ok-if-6-black-cops-used-force/216499/105 "2003-12-05T10:49:14Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by vanilla \* > \*\*How come we never see videos of white men (or women for that matter) being subdued by police? > Surely there are lots.?! \*\* Well, I once saw news footage of a cop skipping the “subduing” phase and just taking a white person down. A white woman was pulled over by Highway Patrol. They told her to get out, and she did, then she put her hands behind her back and BAM! Patrolman fired one fatal shot. Said afterwards that he assumed she was reaching for a weapon. ---
**Author:** ![Mehitabel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8797f3/32.png) [@Mehitabel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mehitabel)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2003, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-so-if-he-were-a-400lb-white-man-on-pcp-it-would-be-ok-if-6-black-cops-used-force/216499/106 "2003-12-05T15:45:08Z")
As dashboard cams become more common, there’s probably plenty of white (and Asian) folks getting beat up. But they don’t make the news, because let’s face it, ‘Obese man on drugs with Hypertension dies after starting fight with police’ doesn’t make the national news unless there’s a race angle. Which I think the OP was going on about to begin with. ---
**Author:** ![Beagle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/85f322/32.png) [@Beagle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beagle)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2003, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-so-if-he-were-a-400lb-white-man-on-pcp-it-would-be-ok-if-6-black-cops-used-force/216499/107 "2003-12-05T17:00:29Z")
[Missing tape?](http://www.cincypost.com/2003/12/03/cgap120303.html) > [@](#): > > For all the drama in the six-minute videotape showing Nathanial Jones’s fatal encounter with Cincinnati police early Sunday – Jones’s lunge and punches at police, officers’ repeated blows with their nightsticks, the distressing instant when cops realize Jones is not breathing – the most crucial moments may be the 97 seconds when nothing can be seen. > Although police insist there is a simple explanation for the one-minute, 37-second gap in a police cruiser’s videotape of the deadly encounter and that nothing substantive occurred during that period, others speculate that more sinister motives may have been involved. > > Lawyer Ken Lawson, who represents Jones’s family, has suggested that something perhaps happened in those 97 seconds that caused the violent situation to erupt, prompting the 350-pound Jones to swing at police, who then wrestled him to the ground and struck him more than 30 times with their nightsticks while trying to handcuff him… > > “Since Jones wasn’t violent towards anybody that night, what did police do that made the man so angry?” Lawson said. The camera is connected to the lights, BTW. There is a simple explanation – factually – for that. I think the better policy would be to keep the camera running whenever dealing with suspects. ---
**Author:** ![pkbites](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pkbites/32/204_2.png) [@pkbites](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pkbites)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2003, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-so-if-he-were-a-400lb-white-man-on-pcp-it-would-be-ok-if-6-black-cops-used-force/216499/108 "2003-12-05T17:08:05Z")
[QUOTE] \*Originally posted by Rhum Runner \* **ccwaterback – You can’t be charged with “homicide” since “homicide” isn’t a crime.** This is incorrect **Rhum Runner**. (depending on what state one is in). In Wisconsin we don’t have murder statutes, we have homicide statutes: \*\*940.01 _First-degree intentional homicide_ 940.05 _Second-degree intentional homicide_\*\* You most certainly can be charged with homicide. ---
**Author:** ![Phlosphr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c68b51/32.png) [@Phlosphr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Phlosphr)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2003, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-so-if-he-were-a-400lb-white-man-on-pcp-it-would-be-ok-if-6-black-cops-used-force/216499/109 "2003-12-05T17:19:14Z")
_From Jones’ Lawyer_ - > [@](#): > > Since Jones wasn’t violent towards anybody that night, what did police do that made the man so angry?" Lawson said The PCP in his system was enough to cause the man to _switch_ into mad mode nearly instantaneously. It is PCPs trade mark. Anger of the King Kong kind! I hate to see Atomic Little People on PCP in a Mud Wrestling match. I wouldn’t even pay to see it… ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2003, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-so-if-he-were-a-400lb-white-man-on-pcp-it-would-be-ok-if-6-black-cops-used-force/216499/110 "2003-12-05T17:43:48Z")
\*From Jones’ Lawyer - \* > [@](#): > > Since Jones wasn’t violent towards anybody that night… Uh, what about the EMT’s who called the cops in the first place? ---
**Author:** ![Beagle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/85f322/32.png) [@Beagle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beagle)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2003, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-so-if-he-were-a-400lb-white-man-on-pcp-it-would-be-ok-if-6-black-cops-used-force/216499/111 "2003-12-05T17:55:06Z")
You can be charged with “intentional” homicide as interpreted through statutory and common law. Intent is critical. “Homicide” – as per the coroner – really just means that human factors (here, the struggle) contributed directly to the death. For example, it’s nearly impossible to argue that the police “premeditated” the homicide unless one argues the intent formed in an instant at the scene. OTOH, one could argue that the homicide is justifiable. Nobody is every charged for justifiable homicide, in theory of course. So, it’s better to say that “homicide” is a term of art in medicine and law. The two do not overlap. Medicine does not care at all about intent. The coroner was correct when he said that terming the death “homicide” with poor health and weight as contributing factors does not mean the police are guilty of anything, legally. I agree that the lawyer is seizing on whatever he can. That’s his job. I’d just keep the cameras running all the time from now on. Don’t feed conspiracy theories you can knock down with a slightly different policy. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-so-if-he-were-a-400lb-white-man-on-pcp-it-would-be-ok-if-6-black-cops-used-force/216499.md?page=5)