# Oh sure, NOW he's a hero... **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 17, 2005, 12:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-sure-now-hes-a-hero/326583 "2005-10-17T12:31:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![wolf\_meister](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolf_meister/32/15202_2.png) [@wolf\_meister](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolf_meister)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2005, 5:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-sure-now-hes-a-hero/326583/21 "2005-10-18T05:47:34Z")
**Martin Hyde** That was a very good explanation of the entire incident back in 1969. * * * Still, I couldn’t resist telling the joke I heard Jay Leno say just a while ago: “If you were drowning, wouldn’t Ted Kennedy be the _last_ person you’d want to come to your rescue?” ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2005, 5:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-sure-now-hes-a-hero/326583/22 "2005-10-18T05:52:10Z")
> [@wolf\_meister](#): > > **Martin Hyde** > That was a very good explanation of the entire incident back in 1969. Seconded. > [@](#): > > Still, I couldn’t resist telling the joke I heard Jay Leno say just a while ago: > “If you were drowning, wouldn’t Ted Kennedy be the _last_ person you’d want to come to your rescue?” Well, there’s Mike Brown… ---
**Author:** ![Bob\_Loblaw\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4af34b/32.png) [@Bob\_Loblaw\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bob_Loblaw_1)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2005, 6:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-sure-now-hes-a-hero/326583/23 "2005-10-18T06:59:34Z")
> [@Mr. Roboto](#): > > Everybody on this board would be serving two consecutive life sentences for second degree murder… > Not the Chappaquidick Kid, Power,Wealth and Name will set you free… Here in Idiotville, TX, we are under the impression that Ted killed the Kopecne sisters, Mary and Jo, that’s why two sentences. It’s my understanding that Ted was drunk, so that if he had been charged, which maybe he should have been, it would have been manslaughter unless you could provide intent that he intended her death. In the late 60s, this would have been charged as a manslaugter. And it’s also my understanding that the sentences are usually served at the same time, that is concurrently, and not end to end, consecutively. In a similar case in Texas in the same era, another person who later became famous and from a rich family drunkenly killed her boyfriend in an auto collision: the boyfriend was in another car. She was not charged either, so this was pretty much par for the course back then. It didn’t stop Ted Kennedy from being reelected Senator, nor George W Bush from making his killer wife Laura First Lady. Yeah, I probably would have liked Ted to have been charged, and Laura too. At least now days, they do get charged: Janklow. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2005, 8:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-sure-now-hes-a-hero/326583/24 "2005-10-18T08:41:57Z")
> [@Bob Loblaw](#): > > In a similar case in Texas in the same era, another person who later became famous and from a rich family drunkenly killed her boyfriend in an auto collision: the boyfriend was in another car. She was not charged either, so this was pretty much par for the course back then. Y’know, tens of thousands of Americans die every year in auto accidents. It doesn’t become murder/manslaughter just because someone who is or one day will be famous is involved. ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2005, 11:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-sure-now-hes-a-hero/326583/25 "2005-10-18T11:50:17Z")
> [@Bryan Ekers](#): > > Y’know, tens of thousands of Americans die every year in auto accidents. It doesn’t become murder/manslaughter just because someone who is or one day will be famous is involved. well no, the famous part doesn’t factor in. however, it does seem these days that if a person is ‘at fault’ in an accident and a death occurs, they are criminally charged. The Janklow case is very similar to Laura’s, both involved speeding through a stop sign and killing a person in a vehicle w/the right of way. re: OP. you’re just taunting **milroyj** ’s inability to post anymore. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2005, 11:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-sure-now-hes-a-hero/326583/26 "2005-10-18T11:55:42Z")
Atta boy, Martin Hyde. Good job. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2005, 11:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-sure-now-hes-a-hero/326583/27 "2005-10-18T11:58:37Z")
> [@Chefguy](#): > > What we need is a good rant about FDR. Fuckin’ crippled bastid and his socialist programs are what’s wrong with our country today. Maybe dredge up Thomas Jefferson’s corpse and beat him up again. The “30 percenters” have so little they can bitch about from this decade, they have no choice but to go back to the glory days when they were the opposition berating the Democratic majority. It’s hard being a Republican these days! ---
**Author:** ![Love\_Rhombus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/love_rhombus/32/10694_2.png) [@Love\_Rhombus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Love_Rhombus)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2005, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-sure-now-hes-a-hero/326583/28 "2005-10-18T16:30:04Z")
Wait, Laura Bush killed somebody? ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2005, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-sure-now-hes-a-hero/326583/29 "2005-10-18T16:35:56Z")
> [@Love Rhombus](#): > > Wait, Laura Bush killed somebody? [Yes.](http://www.snopes.com/politics/bush/laura.asp) ---
**Author:** ![lieu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c2a13f/32.png) [@lieu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lieu)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2005, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-sure-now-hes-a-hero/326583/30 "2005-10-18T16:46:47Z")
Succinctly put, **Martin Hyde** , and I thank you for that. Agreed that the legal case against Ted would have proven hard to get a conviction on in large part because, as you mentioned, there were no other witnesses. Well, none that lived through it at least. It was an “oddly built” wooden bridge. After they flew off it I’d suspect he did make an attempt at rescuing his passenger. And I’m sure he felt absolutely nothing but remorse at his actions and would, if he could, do things differently. The legal ramifications of the event are understandably few. But legal ramifications can be a ridiculously poor indicator of probable guilt. If you’re married, how good of an idea is it to party without your spouse at some desolate, remote location? If an attractive, unattached woman there needs a ride home, are you, after drinking, the most appropriate one to escort her and should no one else come along? After you’ve obviously put her in a situation where she’s going to die without help, even if you and your drinking buddies have exhausted your wits about how to rescue her, should you then go get some sleep so you can better answer the imminent questions you’ll be answering from the proper authorities? It’s not so much that Ted’s actions are prosecutable violations of the law. It’s more that they’re violations of character, decency, and responsibility and generate grave questions as to just exactly why he DID NOT pursue a rational, reasonable course of action. Frankly, a lot of people, myself included, think it was because **he had something unjustifiable to hide**. Btw, I got your tone and don’t think you’re letting him off easy but I _do_ think he was deserving of judicial weight for his actions. > [@Bob Loblaw](#): > > In a similar case in Texas in the same era, another person who later became famous and from a rich family drunkenly killed her boyfriend in an auto collision: the boyfriend was in another car. While I’d never before heard anyone comparing the past events of Ted Kennedy’s life to those of Laura Welch, nothing’s ridiculous without contemplation. My understanding is that Laura came not from a rich, as you alledge, family but simply a respected one. She was not drunk, as you further alledge, and a cite as to such a claim would be appreciated. If there’s some undisclosed thing she was sneakily doing or trying to hide driving down that Midland street to, not from, a party one afternoon that you’re alone privy to, then please share. An accident with a beltless driver in a doorless Jeep ain’t often gonna turn out well for anyone involved and, in this case, it went just as you might expect. It strikes me that the full wrath of a group that despises a current president, however deserving, have been visited on a young girl that made a tragic omission of awareness years and years ago. I doubt if anyone suffered mentally from the angst and guilt as Laura did for that event, save probably the young man’s family. Yet you would shower her with murderous intent by branding her a "killer’, your words, for that mistake. Strangely, such culpability has been repeated countless times by drivers the world over in the years since and, curiously, I don’t see you attributing them callously with the same despicable monniker. Go figure. **Marley** my friend, not to rehash the debate but when such a notion is left unquestioned, well, such would leave me a tad nauseous. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2005, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-sure-now-hes-a-hero/326583/31 "2005-10-18T16:53:45Z")
> [@wring](#): > > well no, the famous part doesn’t factor in. however, it does seem these days that if a person is ‘at fault’ in an accident and a death occurs, they are criminally charged. The Laura (Welch) Bush and Kennedy cases are both well over thirty years old, though. If we’re going to apply the standard of “these days” to these cases, why not the 100,000+ other traffic fatalities of the 1960s? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2005, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-sure-now-hes-a-hero/326583/32 "2005-10-18T17:23:15Z")
> [@lieu](#): > > **Marley** my friend, not to rehash the debate but when such a notion is left unquestioned, well, such would leave me a tad nauseous. That’s fine. 😉 What I had in mind was some of the partisan crap I’ve read about it, not an evaluation of the facts. I’m not convinced that Kennedy committed manslaughter - in fact, after reading this thread, I’m less convinced than ever. I don’t think Laura Bush did anything wrong, and I also dislike it when people bring up that accident as “dirt.” ---
**Author:** ![lieu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c2a13f/32.png) [@lieu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lieu)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2005, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-sure-now-hes-a-hero/326583/33 "2005-10-18T17:43:36Z")
Upon reflection “unquestioned” wasn’t at all the appropriate word and gives an inaccuratre sense of what I meant. **Martin Hyde** and everyone else is perfectly just in their assessment of the event as we’ve come to know it. I definately understand his drift. T’was just throwing another interpretation out there that I thought differed enough to be appreciable. ---
**Author:** ![SuaSponte](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/67e7ee/32.png) [@SuaSponte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SuaSponte)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2005, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-sure-now-hes-a-hero/326583/34 "2005-10-18T17:47:43Z")
> [@Bryan Ekers](#): > > Y’know, tens of thousands of Americans die every year in auto accidents. It doesn’t become murder/manslaughter just because someone who is or one day will be famous is involved. Well, I don’t know, **Bryan**. If Laura hadn’t had the “accident”, then she might have married the guy and lost all chance of becoming First Lady. Sounds like motive to me … Sua ---
**Author:** ![kidchameleon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/898d66/32.png) [@kidchameleon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kidchameleon)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2005, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-sure-now-hes-a-hero/326583/35 "2005-10-18T18:53:40Z")
> [@Revtim](#): > > Why two? Or are you simply exaggerating? Mary Jo and his presidential asperations. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Roboto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/76d3ee/32.png) [@Mr.Roboto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Roboto)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2005, 5:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-sure-now-hes-a-hero/326583/36 "2005-10-19T05:17:37Z")
> [@Revtim](#): > > Why two? Or are you simply exaggerating? ``` Mary Jo Kopecknie was pregnant. ``` ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Roboto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/76d3ee/32.png) [@Mr.Roboto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Roboto)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2005, 5:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-sure-now-hes-a-hero/326583/37 "2005-10-19T05:25:09Z")
> [@Revtim](#): > > Why two? Or are you simply exaggerating? ``` Mary Jo Kopechne was pregnant. ``` ---
**Author:** ![CynicalGabe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/3e96dc/32.png) [@CynicalGabe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CynicalGabe)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2005, 5:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-sure-now-hes-a-hero/326583/38 "2005-10-19T05:28:42Z")
But what we need to know is, _was_ Mary Jo Kopechne pregnant?? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2005, 5:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-sure-now-hes-a-hero/326583/39 "2005-10-19T05:33:18Z")
> [@CynicalGabe](#): > > But what we need to know is, _was_ Mary Jo Kopechne pregnant?? And we need a cite for it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-sure-now-hes-a-hero/326583.md?page=1)