# Oh, that's a great solution, Jet Blue! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 20, 2007, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-thats-a-great-solution-jet-blue/392961 "2007-02-20T14:53:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2007, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-thats-a-great-solution-jet-blue/392961/101 "2007-03-18T18:13:41Z")
[QUOTE=Una Persson] How does one walk away from inside the sealed airplane with no jetway when you’re on the tarmac? [/QUOTE] Has kidnapping ever been justified on the basis that releasing the person is inconvenient? The onus of figuring out how to evacuate people ought to be on the ones who are holding the people captive. Get 'em a damn ladder if you have to. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2007, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-thats-a-great-solution-jet-blue/392961/102 "2007-03-18T18:49:03Z")
[QUOTE=Liberal] Don’t know. You’ll have to ask a lawyer type person. But if there is nothing that prevents you from walking away from a situation in which you are being held against your will, then what’s all the fuss about? [/QUOTE] and [QUOTE=Liberal] Has kidnapping ever been justified on the basis that releasing the person is inconvenient? The onus of figuring out how to evacuate people ought to be on the ones who are holding the people captive. Get 'em a damn ladder if you have to. [/QUOTE] But what needs to be determined, it seems to me, is under what circumstances your desire to leave the plane should reasonably be accommodated. After all, you entered into a voluntary contract with the airline to carry you to your destination, and part of that contract involves adhering to certain rules regarding passenger conduct, heeding the instructions of flight crew, etc. Surely you’re not taking a position that any passenger should be allowed, at any time during the taxi process from gate to runway, to decide that he or she wants to get off the plane? If you are taking that position, we have nothing more to talk about, because it’s patently ridiculous. And if you’re not taking that position, then under what circumstances _should_ a passenger be allowed to leave the plane? At what point does keeping the passenger in their seat go from being a reasonable enforcement of the ticket conditions to kidnapping? I’m completely in agreement that some of what the airlines have been doing is reprehensible, and needs to be addressed. But it needs to be addressed in such a way that doesn’t leave room for ridiculous situations whereby one passenger can suddenly change his or her mind and inconvenience hundreds, even thousands of other people. Because if a plane takes off late, it’s not only the people on that plane who are inconvenienced, it’s all the people who that plane is scheduled to carry that day, as well as other people on connecting flights. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2007, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-thats-a-great-solution-jet-blue/392961/103 "2007-03-18T20:53:54Z")
[QUOTE=mhendo] And if you’re not taking that position, then under what circumstances _should_ a passenger be allowed to leave the plane? At what point does keeping the passenger in their seat go from being a reasonable enforcement of the ticket conditions to kidnapping? [/QUOTE] I think the conditions should specify that. It could even be something for the airlines to compete over, with necessity leading to better solutions. But if they can hold you indefinitely, being the sole declarers of what is reasonable, and with no assurance that the other guys are any better, then there is no incentive to do anything better. If I know it’s nine hours, then I won’t complain about nine hours. Well… I might complain, but I won’t press charges. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Sunspace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunspace/32/1250_2.png) [@Sunspace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunspace)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2007, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-thats-a-great-solution-jet-blue/392961/104 "2007-03-18T21:32:15Z")
Next time I go from Toronto to Montreal, I’m taking the train. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2007, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-thats-a-great-solution-jet-blue/392961/105 "2007-03-18T22:48:45Z")
One could always try to get an inflight upgrade, as a woman recently did on an India to England flight: [http://news.independent.co.uk/uk/transport/article2368991.ece](http://news.independent.co.uk/uk/transport/article2368991.ece) ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2007, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-thats-a-great-solution-jet-blue/392961/106 "2007-03-18T23:02:10Z")
[QUOTE=Sunspace] Next time I go from Toronto to Montreal, I’m taking the train. [/QUOTE] while I will agree that spouse and I have oodles of fun training it from Ohio to DC, I will point out to you that at least in a couple of respects, train travel isn’t that much different - for example - we encountered quite a delay one year, sat on a train not moving for an hour, could move around the train but not off. There was a power outage at one point, which meant no heat, lights etc. There’s no reserved seating, so when we got on the train in Toledo last year, there were no two seats together, and we ended up in the observation car for the trip. It still beats airports, though, for us. ---
**Author:** ![vivalostwages](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/d07c76/32.png) [@vivalostwages](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vivalostwages)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2007, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-thats-a-great-solution-jet-blue/392961/107 "2007-03-18T23:35:56Z")
[QUOTE=wring] while I will agree that spouse and I have oodles of fun training it from Ohio to DC, I will point out to you that at least in a couple of respects, train travel isn’t that much different - for example - we encountered quite a delay one year, sat on a train not moving for an hour, could move around the train but not off. There was a power outage at one point, which meant no heat, lights etc. There’s no reserved seating, so when we got on the train in Toledo last year, there were no two seats together, and we ended up in the observation car for the trip. It still beats airports, though, for us. [/QUOTE] Me, too. My tour group and I were two hours late getting to Monterey a month ago, not due to Amtrak but due to Union Pacific rail workers; we had several delays that added up to two hours. Fortunately, the train was not loaded, so we moved around a lot and were even able to get off, take photos, enjoy the ocean air, etc. No power outage, thank goodness. ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2007, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-thats-a-great-solution-jet-blue/392961/108 "2007-03-18T23:56:28Z")
[QUOTE=Muffin] One could always try to get an inflight upgrade, as a woman recently did on an India to England flight: [http://news.independent.co.uk/uk/transport/article2368991.ece](http://news.independent.co.uk/uk/transport/article2368991.ece) [/QUOTE] Yup, that sounds like good old British Airways alright. The worst “premium” carrier in existence. ---
**Author:** ![Rico](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rico/32/3582_2.png) [@Rico](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rico)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2007, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-thats-a-great-solution-jet-blue/392961/109 "2007-03-19T00:50:34Z")
[QUOTE=jacquilynne] Given that the planes were delayed due to snow, I doubt they were ‘cooking on asphalt’. [/QUOTE] Yeah, they could just open the windows and let some cool air in from time to time. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2007, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-thats-a-great-solution-jet-blue/392961/110 "2007-03-19T01:12:57Z")
[QUOTE=Qadgop the Mercotan] Sure you should! It’ll shrink your derriere and you’ll fit into your seat better. Just use a [stadium pal](http://www.stadiumpal.com/)! [/QUOTE] I’d hate to think of what it looks like if you end up in a full-body scanner thingy at security. Plus if you use it too early, the restrictions on carrying liquids aboards. “Sure, confiscate it - save me the trouble” ---
**Author:** ![vivalostwages](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/d07c76/32.png) [@vivalostwages](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vivalostwages)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2007, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-thats-a-great-solution-jet-blue/392961/111 "2007-03-19T01:43:34Z")
[QUOTE=GorillaMan] I’d hate to think of what it looks like if you end up in a full-body scanner thingy at security. Plus if you use it too early, the restrictions on carrying liquids aboards. “Sure, confiscate it - save me the trouble” [/QUOTE] Could I bring my Futuro female urinal on board? ---
**Author:** ![Rilchiam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@Rilchiam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rilchiam)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2007, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-thats-a-great-solution-jet-blue/392961/112 "2007-03-19T03:49:56Z")
[QUOTE=Liberal] Don’t know. You’ll have to ask a lawyer type person. But if there is nothing that prevents you from walking away from a situation in which you are being held against your will, then what’s all the fuss about? [/QUOTE] [Post #57.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8284006&postcount=57) ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2007, 6:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-thats-a-great-solution-jet-blue/392961/113 "2007-03-19T06:27:40Z")
[QUOTE=Liberal] I think the conditions should specify that. It could even be something for the airlines to compete over, with necessity leading to better solutions. But if they can hold you indefinitely, being the sole declarers of what is reasonable, and with no assurance that the other guys are any better, then there is no incentive to do anything better. If I know it’s nine hours, then I won’t complain about nine hours. Well… I might complain, but I won’t press charges. 😉 [/QUOTE] You pretty much do hand your ass over to the airlines when you fly. Note Delta’s conditions of carriage: > [@](#): > > Carrier undertakes to use its best efforts to carry the passenger and baggage with reasonable dispatch. Times shown in timetable or elsewhere are not guaranteed and form no part of this contract. Carrier may without notice substitute alternate carriers or aircraft, and may alter or omit stopping places shown on the ticket in case of necessity. Schedules are subject to change without notice. Carrier assumes no responsibility for making connections. > **[Terms of Use | Delta Air Lines](https://www.delta.com/us/en/legal/terms-of-use)** > > All content on this Internet site ("the delta.com website") is owned or controlled by Delta Air Lines and is protected by worldwide copyright laws. Basically if they decide to take you on a 11 hour detour of the tarmac you are fu-diddly-ucked. Besides, it’s completely unreasonable to expect that you can get off the airplane anytime you like. Obviously there is some point between no time and your natural life span where you should reasonably expect to get off the plane, but on demand exit, even while still on the ground, is ludicrous. ---
**Author:** ![buttonjockey308](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bcef8e/32.png) [@buttonjockey308](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buttonjockey308)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2007, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-thats-a-great-solution-jet-blue/392961/114 "2007-03-20T01:45:41Z")
Seems to me the Warsaw Convention is somewhat vague on the subject of being kidnapped by an aircrew. I’m not entirely sure under who’s jurisdiction a plane is under before it reaches the taxiway or crosses the hold-short line. Frankly, I think anymore than 2 hours is too much. It’s all up to the airline. They choose to maintain their statistics in favor of passenger comfort and profit. Personally, I would stage a revolt. After 3-4 hours, I’m not sure there would be much you could do to me to keep me from just opening the door. I’m not sure that a whole squadron of sky waitresses could hold me back, and I’m sure I could rally the remaining passengers. Even if there were an air marshal were on board, he’s only got enough bullets for the first 15 or so, and odds are he wouldn’t even draw down on people just wanting to get off the airplane. 😉 Felony or not, it would be time to leave. No one you pay has the right to keep you where you don’t want to be. I think people are just apt to bitch and complain and not act because they have somewhere to be and just ‘don’t want trouble’. Me? I think one actual passenger uprising and we’d never see a delay like that again, unless there was something physically wrong with the plane. Once you prove to people that they don’t have to put up with something, and give them to tools to effect their surroundings, they will, then it’s all over. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2007, 4:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-thats-a-great-solution-jet-blue/392961/115 "2007-03-20T04:17:43Z")
[Airline Passenger Bill of Rights Act of 2007 (Introduced in House) HR 1303 IH 110th CONGRESS 1st Session H. R. 1303 To amend title 49, United States Code, to improve air carrier passenger services. IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES March 1, 2007](http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/C?c110:./temp/~c110ma3eav) ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2007, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-thats-a-great-solution-jet-blue/392961/116 "2007-03-20T04:19:19Z")
Anyone happen to know of any lawsuits against airlines for not letting passengers off the plane? Obviously passengers can’t be held against their will indefinately, so it becomes a question of just how long is reasonable given the circumstances. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2007, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-thats-a-great-solution-jet-blue/392961/117 "2007-03-20T04:37:03Z")
Yes, I know of one: Abourezk v. New York Airline, Inc., 705 F. Supp. 656 (D.D.C. 1989). A guy was delayed on the tarmac for three hours. He sued for false imprisonment, intentional infliction of emotional distress, and negligent infliction of emotional distress. He lost. > [@Lexis-Nexis Summary](#): > > The court granted the airline’s motion finding that the passenger was not entitled to recovery from the airline for the inconvenience of a modern life. The court found that the passenger had given the pilot consent to fly him to New York, which consent was broad enough to cover the pilot’s determination that he would fly the plane to New York upon release from the indefinite hold placed upon him by the Federal Aviation Authority. The court also found the passenger suffered no damages which entitled him to recovery as his frustration did not rise to the level of recovery. On false imprisonment… > [@The court quoting Prosser](#): > > A mere incidental confinement due to acts directed at another purpose as, for instance, locking the door with plaintiff inside for the sole purpose of keeping others out, is not a sufficiently important invasion of a plaintiff’s interests to require the protection of the law. Since in such a case the defendant is aware that the conduct is certain to result in the confinement, it can scarcely be said that the defendant did not intend it. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2007, 4:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-thats-a-great-solution-jet-blue/392961/118 "2007-03-20T04:45:16Z")
A 2001 7.1 million class action settlement: [Leaving Lasting Marks with Exceptional Websites](http://www.fansoffieger.com/nwairsetl.htm) A lawyer named Jeffrey Sheldon making a subsequent run at it after being delayed-- I don’t know if he was successful or not: [Family sues airline for being kept aboard diverted jet. Category: Features from The Berkeley Daily Planet](http://www.berkeleydailyplanet.com/article.cfm?archiveDate=12-28-01&storyID=9267) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-thats-a-great-solution-jet-blue/392961.md?page=5)