# Oh... the hypocrisy... thanks TVLand. **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [August 11, 2003, 5:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-the-hypocrisy-thanks-tvland/194335 "2003-08-11T05:56:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Mockingbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c68b51/32.png) [@Mockingbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mockingbird)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2003, 5:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-the-hypocrisy-thanks-tvland/194335/1 "2003-08-11T05:56:04Z")
So, tonight I was watching the TVLand special on African Americans on Television. They talked about the oppression and prejudice many of them had to endure. Then 45 minutes into the show during the In Living Color segment, they showed the Men on Film bit and didn’t even touch on the prejudice inherent in that broad caricature of gay men. It was the “Great Balls of Fire” version. I’d have thought that the people who put this together would recognize how this might look and how hypocritical it could and in my eyes DID come off. Very disappointing. ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2003, 7:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-the-hypocrisy-thanks-tvland/194335/2 "2003-08-11T07:43:32Z")
Uh, wasn’t it a show about black people, not gay people? Is there anything that _doesn’t_ piss you off? ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2003, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-the-hypocrisy-thanks-tvland/194335/3 "2003-08-11T15:33:02Z")
Strangely enough, most of the gay men I know **loved** Men on Film. Myself included. “Moby Dick. _Hated it!_” ---
**Author:** ![UrbanChic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/9dc877/32.png) [@UrbanChic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UrbanChic)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2003, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-the-hypocrisy-thanks-tvland/194335/4 "2003-08-11T15:42:24Z")
Mockingbird, the two gay people I polled both loved that segment. You gay people need to get your shit together. It’s very confusing when one of you doesn’t go with the herd, you know. By the way, is it true that all gay men like the color pink? This one gay guy I met was telling me how much he liked pink and I once saw a gay guy on TV wearing pink. ---
**Author:** ![Duke\_of\_Rat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Duke\_of\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duke_of_Rat)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2003, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-the-hypocrisy-thanks-tvland/194335/5 "2003-08-11T16:36:06Z")
Well, speaking as a straight guy, some of the best things in life are pink. So there. ---
**Author:** ![Askia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/96bed5/32.png) [@Askia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askia)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2003, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-the-hypocrisy-thanks-tvland/194335/6 "2003-08-11T17:32:09Z")
Still – The whole Men On Film bit was typical of the anti-gay humor that is rampant in the work of the Wayans clan. They have this utter fascination with homosexuality as a quality to be relentlessly mocked. ---
**Author:** ![MsRobyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/90ced4/32.png) [@MsRobyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsRobyn)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2003, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-the-hypocrisy-thanks-tvland/194335/7 "2003-08-11T20:35:31Z")
Unless you want to go back to the bad old days when scripts had to be approved by a priest, a minister, and a rabbi, there’s always going to be some offensive content on television, and particularly TV that is aimed at some particular demographic. _In Living Color_ was aimed at the urban black demographic, so its humor focuses on that. That other groups liked the show helped the ratings, and helped keep the show on for as long as it was. But its primary audience was always urban blacks. And let’s face it. Stereotype has long been a feature of comedy. The blackface of _Amos n’ Andy_, the hook-nosed, money-grubbing Jew, the Italian mafioso, the flaming homosexual; all of these have been stock characters in comedy since there was comedy. Men on Film simply used the stereotype of the flaming queen as an ironic device to point out that while the two men were biologically men, they could hardly be considered masculine. Before anyone rips me a new one for suggesting that stereotyping is okay, I know it’s not. I’m happy to see that there are more minority characters played as characters that happen to be black, Jewish, gay, or what-have-you. I’m merely pointing out the unpleasant truth that stereotyping does exist, and that it’s been a comedic device for aeons. Robin ---
**Author:** ![Eve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Eve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eve)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2003, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-the-hypocrisy-thanks-tvland/194335/8 "2003-08-11T20:49:32Z")
Doesn’t mean I have to like it. I saw that homophobic piece of shit once and avoided the show like the plague thereafter. And in fact, have avoided anything Wayansesque. They’re free to show it; I’m free to shun them. ---
**Author:** ![Mockingbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c68b51/32.png) [@Mockingbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mockingbird)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2003, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-the-hypocrisy-thanks-tvland/194335/9 "2003-08-11T22:53:42Z")
It seems very easy to brand me with a label, no matter how reasonable or accurate I may be. My point was not only is it an offensive stereotype to more than just me, it was being shown on a show about the struggles african american entertainers have had to endure. These struggles were prejudice based and there were countless examples of the prejudice they went through. Then they showed prejudice towards another group, which was supposed to be funny. Amos and Andy was only performed by white actors on radio. The televised version was all black actors. It’s easy to discount the impact of the portrayal when it is not affecting you directly. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2003, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-the-hypocrisy-thanks-tvland/194335/10 "2003-08-11T23:07:15Z")
I just find it very difficult to get worked up about _Men on Film_\*. Maybe it’s because I don’t really care that much about whether I’m perceived as “masculine” or not. If they’d been portrayed as a couple of baby-raping reservoir-poisoners on a regular basis, maybe it would have made me angry. But the “nelly” thing doesn’t bug me. It never has. I don’t see “nelly” as being particularly negative in any way. _shrug_ You pick your battles. I find worrying about a television show that’s been defunct for at least 10 years to be fairly pointless. But that’s just me and I don’t expect to be able to dictate to you or **Eve** or anyone else who _hated it!_ what you’re supposed to feel. Godspeed and all that. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2003, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-the-hypocrisy-thanks-tvland/194335/11 "2003-08-11T23:09:51Z")
Oh, fudge! :mad: ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2003, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-the-hypocrisy-thanks-tvland/194335/12 "2003-08-12T00:10:32Z")
I either liked MoF when it first came on and then got bored with it or hated MoF when it first came on and got bored with it. It’s been so long ago I can’t remember. There was enough other stuff on _In Living Color_ not to like. I do agree with **Mockingbird** that there has to have been another clip from ILC that showcased the talents of the Wayanses without being open to interpretation as homophobic. It’s always rather disgusting when one minority makes it bones on the backs of another minority. Vito Russo makes the same point about Robert Townsend’s _Hollywood Shuffle_ in his book “The Celluloid Closet.” > [@](#): > > The anti-Semitism and homophobia contained in Townsend’s film is all the more offensive because it is so seemingly unconscious. Townsend complains that in order for blacks to make it in Hollywood they are expected to shuffle. Then he creates gay characters who are shuffling, stereotypical hairdressers and wardrobe queens. In a script which points out that Hollywood forces blacks into Uncle Tom roles, every other word is fag. In such a context, bigotry is blithely reinforced and legitimized by the very people who should be most sensitive to it. ---
**Author:** ![Askia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/96bed5/32.png) [@Askia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askia)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2003, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-the-hypocrisy-thanks-tvland/194335/13 "2003-08-12T00:44:57Z")
**Otto.** “Open to interpretation?” Damon Wayans and David Alan Grier were freaking flagrant with their homophobia those Men on Film skits. Historically, homosexuality and definitions of black masculinity are time-honored topics in black folk humor and stand-up comedy – and both go to extremes. It’s hard to find a black comedian in the last 60 years who DOESN’T have a gay joke or twenty in his, uh, closet. There’s another hypocrisy at play here: the number of closeted gay black actors and actresses, comedians and comediannes who work in films and television using the same material that both empowers them (by their ethnicity) and demeans them (by sexuality). I mean, anybody ELSE finds it strange that Arsenio Hall and Eddie Murphy don’t work together anymore…? Anybody? ---
**Author:** ![Kallessa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/7993a0/32.png) [@Kallessa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kallessa)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2003, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-the-hypocrisy-thanks-tvland/194335/14 "2003-08-12T00:51:03Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Askia \* > \*\ ***Otto.** “Open to interpretation?” Damon Wayans and David Alan Grier were freaking flagrant with their homophobia those Men on Film skits. \*\* That’s why he was suggesting that it would have been more appropriate to use a clip from another _ILC_ skit–avoid using a bigoted (homophobic) clip, but do include the show, because it did mark a gain for African Americans on TV. ---
**Author:** ![Askia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/96bed5/32.png) [@Askia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askia)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2003, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-the-hypocrisy-thanks-tvland/194335/15 "2003-08-12T01:06:19Z")
**Kallessa.** Granted. But think on In Living Color’s classic skits and characters: Homey the Clown, Antwon the Bum, Firemarshal Bill, The Sidekick, The Buttheads, Detective Head, Vera de Milo, etc. _Men On Film_ perfectly encapsuled the Wayans ouvere of homophobic, pro-black and gross-out humor. Hell, I’m saying this as a rabid fan of the show. There’s layers to this, and while it’s not pretty, its not wholly inaccurate or inappropiate to point out, “Well, they did work hard to make THIS gain, but look what they DID to get there.” I’m with the OP that a comment or passing criticism should have been made, along with presenting the skit itself. I’m no fan of history by omission. ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2003, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-the-hypocrisy-thanks-tvland/194335/16 "2003-08-12T01:29:59Z")
> [@](#): > > “Open to interpretation?” Damon Wayans and David Alan Grier were freaking flagrant with their homophobia those Men on Film skits. And yet there are those (including one participant in this thread) who would interpret it otherwise. Many, many gay people I knew in the early 90s thought MoF was the funniest damn thing ever and the whole “two snaps up” thing perseveres in some segments of the community to this day. I honestly can’t remember what I originally thought of the sketches; I’d be inclined to think based on where I was politically at the time that I didn’t care for them. But as they continued, they commited the cardinal sin of _not being funny_. I got nothing against sissy humor if it’s done with some wit and style (c.f. Antonio Fargas in _Carwash_: “I’m more man than you’ll ever be and more woman than you’ll ever get!”) but the MoF sketches didn’t have anything to them beyond that and they were deadly dull. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2003, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-the-hypocrisy-thanks-tvland/194335/17 "2003-08-12T01:35:31Z")
Goodness, I hope my gay street cred doesn’t go downhill because I’ve revealed that I’m relatively tasteless in entertainment. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2003, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-the-hypocrisy-thanks-tvland/194335/18 "2003-08-12T03:40:59Z")
You may be tasteless in entertainment but word on the street is in other regards you’re rather tasty. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2003, 3:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-the-hypocrisy-thanks-tvland/194335/19 "2003-08-12T03:44:00Z")
Ooh…now I feel bad about being snarky, dammit! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2003, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-the-hypocrisy-thanks-tvland/194335/20 "2003-08-12T03:46:52Z")
Here’s another queer vote for MoF; I give that sketch three circles and a backwards round the thighbone snap! There’s enough anti-gay rhetoric from the Limbaughs, Hagees, and Ashcrofts of the world to get ones metaphorical panties too much in a wad over some over the top humor. Besides- of those who know several gays, who doesn’t know an Antwon and or a Blaine (and probably feel richer for it)? They’re not saying “all gay guys are like this”, just that some gay guys are and they’re funny as hell. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-the-hypocrisy-thanks-tvland/194335.md?page=2)