# Oh, why not: Obama gaffe thread **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 19, 2008, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-why-not-obama-gaffe-thread/453425 "2008-06-19T00:56:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![rowrrbazzle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rowrrbazzle/32/414_2.png) [@rowrrbazzle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rowrrbazzle)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2008, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-why-not-obama-gaffe-thread/453425/1 "2008-06-19T00:56:18Z")
aaaaaaaaaand theeeeeeeeeeey’re OFF! [http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/06/17/EDOQ11A1L3.DTL](http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/06/17/EDOQ11A1L3.DTL) (bolding added): > [@](#): > > On his first day as the presumptive Democratic candidate for president earlier this month, Barack Obama committed a serious foreign policy blunder. Reciting a litany of pro-Israeli positions at the annual meeting of the American Israel Public Affairs Committee (AIPAC), he avowed: “Jerusalem will remain the capital of Israel, and it must remain undivided.” > > In promising U.S. support of Israel’s claims to all of Jerusalem, **Obama couldn’t have picked a better way to offend the world’s 325 million Arabs and 1.5 billion Muslims**. An **inspired** start for Our Blessed Obama! Praised be he! ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2008, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-why-not-obama-gaffe-thread/453425/2 "2008-06-19T01:20:08Z")
I don’t see that as a gaffe. McCain has the same position. Nobody’s going to go in front of AIPAC and call for a divided Jerusalem. ---
**Author:** ![Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e480ec/32.png) [@Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Least_Original_User_Name_Ever)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2008, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-why-not-obama-gaffe-thread/453425/3 "2008-06-19T02:47:01Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] I don’t see that as a gaffe. McCain has the same position. Nobody’s going to go in front of AIPAC and call for a divided Jerusalem. [/QUOTE] You also live in Obamasota. Talk to some Arab people about this issue and how it went down. ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2008, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-why-not-obama-gaffe-thread/453425/4 "2008-06-19T02:52:25Z")
[QUOTE=Least Original User Name Ever] You also live in Obamasota. Talk to some Arab people about this issue and how it went down. [/QUOTE] There is no way to avoid “offending” one group or another when you’re talking about the Middle East. I put “offend” in quotes because they would get offended if you told them the wind came from the East instead of the West, let alone something that is an accomplished fact like Jerusalem being the capital of Israel. ---
**Author:** ![Santo\_Rugger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@Santo\_Rugger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Santo_Rugger)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2008, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-why-not-obama-gaffe-thread/453425/5 "2008-06-19T03:05:07Z")
[This one](http://gatewaypundit.blogspot.com/2008/05/obama-memorial-day-gaffe-scrubbed-from.html) cracked me up because it happened in New Mexico. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2008, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-why-not-obama-gaffe-thread/453425/6 "2008-06-19T03:11:17Z")
[QUOTE=Least Original User Name Ever] You also live in Obamasota. Talk to some Arab people about this issue and how it went down. [/QUOTE] I’ve lived all over the world. I’ve known plenty of Arab Muslims. Not every Arab Muslim is obsessed with Israel, but even the ones that are will not see Barack Obama as _less_ friendly to the Palestinians than John McCain, who has _also_ said that Jerusalem should not be divided. It would have been a much greater political gaffe to go in front of AIPAC and call for a divided capital. He’d have been excoriated and painted as a terrorist sympathizer. ---
**Author:** ![Rhythmdvl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/85f322/32.png) [@Rhythmdvl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhythmdvl)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2008, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-why-not-obama-gaffe-thread/453425/7 "2008-06-19T03:14:33Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] I don’t see that as a gaffe. McCain has the same position. Nobody’s going to go in front of AIPAC and call for a divided Jerusalem. [/QUOTE] I agree it’s not a gaffe, but it’s a heckavu statement nonetheless. When you say McCain has the same position, do you mean he’s publicly come out and said the capital must remain undivided? It seems to fall into that gray area of things that are politically unwise to say, but not like saying something like “Damascus will remain the capital of Israel, and it must remain undivided.” While I’m not versed in the previous statements of Bush and McCain, I think it’s politically unwise from a, well, political standpoint. A negotiations standpoint. A group dynamic standpoint. If any role is to be played by _either_ administration, the appearance of neutrality and relative impartiality is imperative. Clearly there are visible leanings and whatnot, but I would see such a strong statement giving the Palestinians slight pause in future negotiations. I don’t think it was a dumb statement per se, and you’re right that being in front of AIPAC has a lot to do with it. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2008, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-why-not-obama-gaffe-thread/453425/8 "2008-06-19T03:31:51Z")
[QUOTE=Rhythmdvl] I agree it’s not a gaffe, but it’s a heckavu statement nonetheless. When you say McCain has the same position, do you mean he’s publicly come out and said the capital must remain undivided? [/quote] [Yes](http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1212659679638&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull). ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2008, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-why-not-obama-gaffe-thread/453425/9 "2008-06-19T03:45:41Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] [Yes](http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1212659679638&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull). [/QUOTE] No. > [@](#): > > However, McCain qualified his comments by emphasizing that regardless of his position, the status of the city is still subject to negotiation. > > “The subject of Jerusalem itself will be addressed in negotiations by the Israeli government and people,” he said. ---
**Author:** ![garygnu](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/garygnu/32/2924_2.png) [@garygnu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/garygnu)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2008, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-why-not-obama-gaffe-thread/453425/10 "2008-06-19T03:46:04Z")
Mr. Obma has made gaffes, but this isn’t a gaffe, it’s an unfortunate necessity of current American politics: you must agree with whatever AIPAC wants regarding Israel. Obama’s gaffes include the 57 states thing and saying Auschwitz when it should have been Buchenwald. I forgive McCain gaffes like Putin being the president of Germany, but too many seem like more than mis-speaks. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2008, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-why-not-obama-gaffe-thread/453425/11 "2008-06-19T04:09:59Z")
[QUOTE=garygnu] Obama’s gaffes include the 57 states thing and saying Auschwitz when it should have been Buchenwald. I forgive McCain gaffes like Putin being the president of Germany, but too many seem like more than mis-speaks. [/QUOTE] 57 states wasn’t a gaffe. There ARE 57 primaries/caucuses, the states plus territories/commonwealths/etc. ---
**Author:** ![Carol\_Stream](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c2a13f/32.png) [@Carol\_Stream](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carol_Stream)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2008, 4:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-why-not-obama-gaffe-thread/453425/12 "2008-06-19T04:17:56Z")
[QUOTE=jayjay] 57 states wasn’t a gaffe. There ARE 57 primaries/caucuses, the states plus territories/commonwealths/etc. [/QUOTE] There are only 50 states, and he said states. It’s a gaffe, for sure. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2008, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-why-not-obama-gaffe-thread/453425/13 "2008-06-19T04:37:58Z")
[QUOTE=FinnAgain] No. [/QUOTE] Yes. > [@](#): > > ``` > US Republican presidential candidate Sen. John McCain used the status of Jerusalem to attack his Democratic rival, Sen. Barack Obama on Friday, accusing his opponent of flip-flopping on the issue while affirming his own commitment to an "undivided Jerusalem." > > ``` ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2008, 4:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-why-not-obama-gaffe-thread/453425/14 "2008-06-19T04:42:27Z")
On the 57 states thing, he also said something like “one more to go,” and that his staff wouldn’t let him go to Alaska and Hawaii. He quite obviously meant to say 47. It was gaffe, but it was the kind of genuine verbal accident that everyone in the world is prone to when they aren’t getting any sleep. I would have said the same thing about McCain’s Iran/al-Qaeda gaffe if he hadn’t kept repeating it. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2008, 4:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-why-not-obama-gaffe-thread/453425/15 "2008-06-19T04:57:37Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] Yes. [/QUOTE] Man, when you back yourself into a corner that’s contradicted by all the facts, you really go all out. You have just taken an inaccurate gloss and are now pretending that some journalist’s paraphrase is more accurate than _what McCain actually said._ So, nope. Your original claim is not only wrong, but it was contradicted by your own cite. And lo and behold, you refuse to admit error. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2008, 5:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-why-not-obama-gaffe-thread/453425/16 "2008-06-19T05:18:33Z")
[QUOTE=FinnAgain] Man, when you back yourself into a corner that’s contradicted by all the facts, you really go all out. You have just taken an inaccurate gloss and are now pretending that some journalist’s paraphrase is more accurate than _what McCain actually said._ So, nope. Your original claim is not only wrong, but it was contradicted by your own cite. And lo and behold, you refuse to admit error. [/QUOTE] Learn how to read: > [@](#): > > “I can’t react to every comment that Senator Obama makes, because it probably will change,” McCain told a crowd of supporters while campaigning in Florida. “ **The point is Jerusalem is undivided. Jerusalem is the capital** ,” he continued, and, in an effort to offer a practical demonstration of his stance, suggested moving the American embassy to Jerusalem from Tel Aviv. The other bit you quoted said nothing about dividing Jerusalem as a capital. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2008, 5:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-why-not-obama-gaffe-thread/453425/17 "2008-06-19T05:47:05Z")
Listen you stupid, stubborn, dishonest asshole… Let me play it back for you, real, slow. The quote by Obama was provided where he said that Jerusalem “must remain undivided”. This is a statement about the _future_. You then claimed that McCain had come out and said that Jerusalem must “remain undivided”. That is a statement about the _future_. You now point to McCain stating that Jerusalem **is** undivided and **is** the capital. That is both a simple statement of fact and a statement about the _present_. I already pointed out McCain’s actual statement about the future. He said “The subject of Jerusalem itself will be addressed in negotiations by the Israeli government and people”. That is a statement about the _future_ in which McCain says that Jerusalem’s final status will be resolved via negotiation in the _future_ Points of fact: 1. Obama’s statement of future policy was that Jerusalem must remain undivided. 2. McCain’s statement of future policy was that Jerusalem will be addressed in negotiations, by the Israeli government and people. 3. These are not the same thing, and you’re dumber than a box of hair if you honestly believe they are. 4. Likewise, if you don’t understand why your own cite contradicts you and that Jerusalem’s ownership and division(s) have been part of Final Status negotiations for more than a decade now, and that when McCain refers to Jerusalem being addressed in negotiation, he’s talking about Final Status negotiations, you’re not only stupid, you’re astoundingly ignorant. What the fuck do you even think McCain was referring to about “the subject of Jerusalem” being addressed in future negotiations? Whether or not it gets a Walmart? 5. You’re a dumb cunt. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2008, 5:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-why-not-obama-gaffe-thread/453425/18 "2008-06-19T05:52:13Z")
Wow, you really have a hard time admitting you were wrong. I repeat: McCain expressed support for an undivided Jerusalem. At no time did he express support for a _divided_ Jerusalem. “Future negotiations” does not = support for a “divided capital.” It is (just as Obama’s calarifying statements) a non-committal reference to negotiations about access. You were wrong. You popped off without knowing what you were talking about. You embarrassed yourself. Move on. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2008, 6:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-why-not-obama-gaffe-thread/453425/19 "2008-06-19T06:07:43Z")
So, your parents… siblings, or just cousins? ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2008, 7:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-why-not-obama-gaffe-thread/453425/20 "2008-06-19T07:37:09Z")
[QUOTE=FinnAgain] So, your parents… siblings, or just cousins? [/QUOTE] Was that really necessary? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-why-not-obama-gaffe-thread/453425.md?page=2)