# Ohio 2004 election records illegally destroyed/missing **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 31, 2007, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ohio-2004-election-records-illegally-destroyed-missing/413860 "2007-07-31T19:31:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2007, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ohio-2004-election-records-illegally-destroyed-missing/413860/21 "2007-08-01T17:53:53Z")
[QUOTE=Shodan] **BG** - The Whiningly Obsessive Sore Loser Society of America called. They’re revoking your membership for embarassing them. Regards, Shodan [/QUOTE] Fucking **splitters!** ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2007, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ohio-2004-election-records-illegally-destroyed-missing/413860/22 "2007-08-01T17:57:21Z")
OK, **that’s** funny. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![NurseCarmen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5daacb/32.png) [@NurseCarmen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NurseCarmen)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2007, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ohio-2004-election-records-illegally-destroyed-missing/413860/23 "2007-08-01T19:32:25Z")
Shodan, Evidence of wrongdoing met with name calling? Is that all you got? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2007, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ohio-2004-election-records-illegally-destroyed-missing/413860/24 "2007-08-01T19:49:35Z")
[QUOTE=NurseCarmen] Shodan, Evidence of wrongdoing met with name calling? Is that all you got? [/QUOTE] [shrug] It’s the Pit. Standards are not high, Og be thanked. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2007, 1:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ohio-2004-election-records-illegally-destroyed-missing/413860/25 "2007-08-02T13:10:50Z")
[QUOTE=NurseCarmen] Shodan, Evidence of wrongdoing met with name calling? Is that all you got? [/QUOTE] These kind of conspiracy theories can’t be argued against. They’re not based on rational thought. For heaven’s sake, the OP says that this makes no difference. He goes on to say that the records were “essential”, without knowing what they were, that they were destroyed “accidentally”, and then finishes by misrepresenting them as having been destroyed in “contravention of express federal court orders”. **Frank** has already pointed out that all the senior officials in Ohio are Democrats, which makes the idea of a cover-up more than slightly ludicrous. The left-wing loonies throw this stuff up there all the time. It never goes anywhere, because there is never any evidence apparent to the reasonable mind. _Of course_ **EC** is going to chime in with his usual crap about deep-laid conspiracies and the rest of his shit. It’s all he’s capable of. **BrainGlutton** is much better off; he can take a joke. This is not a topic that can be debated reasonably. Therefore, the only chance for amusement is to mock and ridicule the Usual Suspects and their Usual Paranoid Crapola. “Morons hate it when you call them morons”, I know, but sometimes I like to do it. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2007, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ohio-2004-election-records-illegally-destroyed-missing/413860/26 "2007-08-02T14:01:49Z")
[QUOTE=Shodan] For heaven’s sake, the OP says that this makes no difference. [/quote] Only WRT the actual political results from 2005-2009, which are already a _fait accompli;_ but that’s not quite all that matters, is it? (See, e.g., the lawsuit described in the linked story in the OP.) [QUOTE=Shodan] He goes on to say that the records were “essential”, without knowing what they were . . .\* [/quote] The linked story covers what they were. [QUOTE=Shodan] . . . that they were destroyed “accidentally” . . . [/quote] WHHOOOOOSSSHHH!!! [QUOTE=Shodan] . . . and then finishes by misrepresenting them as having been destroyed in “contravention of express federal court orders”. [/quote] As they may well have been; that depends on the date of their destruction, which remains to be determined. [QUOTE=Shodan] **Frank** has already pointed out that all the senior officials in Ohio are Democrats, which makes the idea of a cover-up more than slightly ludicrous. [/quote] The 22 months the records were required to be preserved under Ohio law expired September 2, 2006. The U.S. District Court issued its order that they be preserved on September 11, 2006. [Kenneth Blackwell (R)](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kenneth_Blackwell) was Ohio’s Secretary of State during the 2004 elections and remained in office until January 8, 2007, when his successor, [Jennifer Brunner (D),](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jennifer_Brunner) took office. Likewise with [Bob Taft (R),](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bob_Taft) who was Governor until succeeded this January by [Ted Strickland (D).](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ted_strickland) So, the records might have been deliberately destroyed (lawfully or unlawfully) on a Republican’s watch. [QUOTE=Shodan] The left-wing loonies throw this stuff up there all the time. It never goes anywhere, because there is never any evidence apparent to the reasonable mind. [/QUOTE] 1. Of course not, if somebody destroys the evidence. 2. Actually, WRT 2004 in Ohio, there **is** plenty of other evidence, presented countless times on this Board, which happens to be beyond the reach of destruction, but also beyond the range of your perception, as your eyes and ears are so tightly sealed by your rectal walls. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2007, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ohio-2004-election-records-illegally-destroyed-missing/413860/27 "2007-08-02T14:18:11Z")
[QUOTE=Frank] You did notice that the court order was not issued until some eight days after the records could be legally destroyed? [/QUOTE] The likelihood that they were all destroyed during that eight-day window is miniscule… unless _somebody_ was waiting for that moment like it was the release date for the last Harry Potter book, in which case I want to know who and why… ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2007, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ohio-2004-election-records-illegally-destroyed-missing/413860/28 "2007-08-02T17:42:51Z")
[QUOTE=Steve MB] The likelihood that they were all destroyed during that eight-day window is miniscule… unless _somebody_ was waiting for that moment like it was the release date for the last Harry Potter book, in which case I want to know who and why… [/QUOTE] Oh, that’s easy! It’s because Rowling wrote the series so brilliantly and built up such interest in its resolution! 🙂 What? ---
**Author:** ![UncleBeer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/977dab/32.png) [@UncleBeer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleBeer)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2007, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ohio-2004-election-records-illegally-destroyed-missing/413860/29 "2007-08-03T17:23:22Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] 1. Actually, WRT 2004 in Ohio, there **is** plenty of other evidence, presented countless times on this Board, which happens to be beyond the reach of destruction, but also beyond the range of your perception, as your eyes and ears are so tightly sealed by your rectal walls. [/QUOTE] And refuted an equal number of times. But don’t let that stop you now. Solid evidence, or rather the lack of it, has never swayed you from your emotional position before. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2007, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ohio-2004-election-records-illegally-destroyed-missing/413860/30 "2007-08-03T18:40:21Z")
[QUOTE=UncleBeer] And refuted an equal number of times. But don’t let that stop you now. Solid evidence, or rather the lack of it, has never swayed you from your emotional position before. [/QUOTE] I see a man wreathed in smoke, crying, “Fire? What fire?” ---
**Author:** ![Blalron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/35a633/32.png) [@Blalron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blalron)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2007, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ohio-2004-election-records-illegally-destroyed-missing/413860/31 "2007-08-04T01:03:51Z")
[QUOTE=Shodan] **BG** - The Whiningly Obsessive Sore Loser Society of America called. They’re revoking your membership for embarassing them. [/QUOTE] I wonder why no Republican on this board seems to care that our democracy is being subverted. ---
**Author:** ![Blalron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/35a633/32.png) [@Blalron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blalron)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2007, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ohio-2004-election-records-illegally-destroyed-missing/413860/32 "2007-08-04T01:19:35Z")
Are you not even the slightest fucking suspicious about these records being destroyed? You disappoint me, Shodan. For a long time I thought the other side merely had a different ideology from me but still had a good heart. I’m beginning to question the latter. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2007, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ohio-2004-election-records-illegally-destroyed-missing/413860/33 "2007-08-04T01:27:07Z")
Cognitive Dissonance claims another innocent mind! Now, will you listen? \*\*\* Now?\*\*\* ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2007, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ohio-2004-election-records-illegally-destroyed-missing/413860/34 "2007-08-04T01:27:30Z")
Cognitive Dissonance claims another innocent victm! Now, will you listen? \*\*\* Now?\*\*\* ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2007, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ohio-2004-election-records-illegally-destroyed-missing/413860/35 "2007-08-04T01:43:30Z")
[QUOTE=Blalron] I wonder why no Republican on this board seems to care that our democracy is being subverted. [/QUOTE] Because America is a Republic, not a Democracy! DUH! ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2007, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ohio-2004-election-records-illegally-destroyed-missing/413860/36 "2007-08-04T17:04:58Z")
[QUOTE=Blalron] I wonder why no Republican on this board seems to care that our democracy is being subverted. [/quote] Perhaps the lack of evidence that it is has something to do with it. > [@](#): > > Are you not even the slightest fucking suspicious about these records being destroyed? Based on what? It seems the difference is that I do not assume guilt without evidence. The Usual Suspects do, and cling to it well beyond the point where they become laughable. > [@](#): > > You disappoint me, Shodan. For a long time I thought the other side merely had a different ideology from me but still had a good heart. I’m beginning to question the latter. It’s not our hearts; it’s our knees. They don’t jerk the same way. Based on this story, you are willing to assume this is a cover up of election rigging in Ohio. That’s how conspiracy theories work - the fact that there is no evidence proves that the conspiracy is real. There was nobody on the grassy knoll either, but that doesn’t stem the flood of “Kennedy was assassinated by the CIA/Castro/LBJ/the Mafia/space aliens from the planet Zongo” theories. This will be kicked around for a bit in the fever swamps of the Loony Left, die away for lack of evidence of any systematic wrong-doing - and then get dragged up again as if it were proof of something the next time some crackpot Commie with Internet access decides he still doesn’t want to deal with the fact that Bush was elected to the White House, twice. And I will chime in to mock their failure to overcome the giggle factor. Business as usual. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2007, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ohio-2004-election-records-illegally-destroyed-missing/413860/37 "2007-08-04T17:13:09Z")
Look at the bright side, **BG**. I don’t think even the most whacked-out conspiracy theorists deny that Bush won the popular vote. So, if Kerry had won in Ohio, you’d be left defending the Electoral College. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2007, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ohio-2004-election-records-illegally-destroyed-missing/413860/38 "2007-08-04T17:25:43Z")
[QUOTE=John Mace] I don’t think even the most whacked-out conspiracy theorists deny that Bush won the popular vote. [/QUOTE] I think you are mistaken. [The exit polls showed Kerry leading by 5 million votes.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2004_U.S._presidential_election_controversy_and_irregularities#Exit_polls) ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2007, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ohio-2004-election-records-illegally-destroyed-missing/413860/39 "2007-08-04T17:44:35Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > ``` > Look at the bright side, BG. I don't think even the most whacked-out conspiracy theorists deny that Bush won the popular vote. > > ``` [QUOTE=BrainGlutton] I think you are mistaken. [The exit polls showed Kerry leading by 5 million votes.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2004_U.S._presidential_election_controversy_and_irregularities#Exit_polls) [/QUOTE] I stand corrected concerning the existence of even more whacked-out conspiracy theorists than I had thought. Carry on. ---
**Author:** ![if6was9](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e47c2d/32.png) [@if6was9](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/if6was9)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2007, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ohio-2004-election-records-illegally-destroyed-missing/413860/40 "2007-08-04T17:58:09Z")
[QUOTE=John Mace] Look at the bright side, **BG**. I don’t think even the most whacked-out conspiracy theorists deny that Bush won the popular vote. So, if Kerry had won in Ohio, you’d be left defending the Electoral College. [/QUOTE] Can’t speak for **BG** , but I’d much rather have Kerry in office and try to defend the EC, than the way it turned out… endlessly accusing the see-no-evil Republican defenders while thousands of our boys die, the rule of law means nothing and the constitution is no more than TP. And all they have is name-calling and Clinton got a blowjob. :rolleyes: [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ohio-2004-election-records-illegally-destroyed-missing/413860.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ohio-2004-election-records-illegally-destroyed-missing/413860.md?page=3)