# Ohio death row inmate sings "Too Fat Polka" **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 8, 2008, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ohio-death-row-inmate-sings-too-fat-polka/459264 "2008-08-08T04:39:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![ivan\_astikov](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@ivan\_astikov](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivan_astikov)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2008, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ohio-death-row-inmate-sings-too-fat-polka/459264/41 "2008-08-08T19:27:36Z")
[QUOTE=Jackmannii] Don’t you have to take the Howlocratic Oath or something? I admit to being completely mystified how we can readily and painlessly end an animal’s suffering through euthanasia, but the comparable procedure in the case of a condemned murderer is equated to torture. [/QUOTE] Because the animal doesn’t know what is about to happen, maybe? ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2008, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ohio-death-row-inmate-sings-too-fat-polka/459264/42 "2008-08-08T19:32:20Z")
Despite the implication posted in here, the last I checked no physician was required to be a member of the AMA to practice medicine (I knew a few who let their membership lapse), so whatever “stance” the AMA has has no bearing in law unless it’s been specifically legislated for. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2008, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ohio-death-row-inmate-sings-too-fat-polka/459264/43 "2008-08-08T19:36:51Z")
[QUOTE=Bryan Ekers] How hard is it to put in an IV, anyway? Couldn’t any reasonably dexterous person learn how in a week or so of training? [/QUOTE] [Harder than you would think, apparently.](http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/article.php?scid=8&did=478) That page is rife with examples of botched lethal injections due to inability to insert the needle; long history of needle drug addiction in the inmates seem to be a common problem. A couple of the more gruesome mistakes: > [@](#): > > 1. June 8, 2000. Florida. Bennie Demps. Lethal Injection. It took execution technicians 33 minutes to find suitable veins for the execution. “They butchered me back there,” said Demps in his final statement. “I was in a lot of pain. They cut me in the groin; they cut me in the leg. I was bleeding profusely. This is not an execution, it is murder.” The executioners had no unusual problems finding one vein, but because Florida protocol requires a second alternate intravenous drip, they continued to work to insert another needle, finally abandoning the effort after their prolonged failures. > > 2. December 7, 2000. Texas. Claude Jones. Lethal Injection. Jones was a former intravenous drug abuser. His execution was delayed 30 minutes while the execution “team” struggled to insert an IV into a vein. He had been a longtime intravenous drug user. One member of the execution team commented, “They had to stick him about five times. They finally put it in his leg.” Wrote Jim Willett, the warden of the Walls Unit and the man responsible for conducting the execution, “The medical team could not find a vein. Now I was really beginning to worry. If you can’t stick a vein then a cut-down has to be performed. I have never seen one and would just as soon go through the rest of my career the same way. Just when I was really getting worried, one of the medical people hit a vein in the left leg. Inside calf to be exact. The executioner had warned me not to panic as it was going to take a while to get the fluids in the body of the inmate tonight because he was going to push the drugs through very slowly. Finally, the drug took effect and Jones took his last breath.” ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2008, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ohio-death-row-inmate-sings-too-fat-polka/459264/44 "2008-08-08T19:37:41Z")
[QUOTE=ivan astikov] Because the animal doesn’t know what is about to happen, maybe? [/QUOTE] I’m not sure you’d want to use that argument in opposition to the death penalty. And how would measurements of psychological “torture” apply to life in prison without parole? What’s the effect of knowing you will never, ever walk free? The repercussions on crime and punishment might be undesirable as well. Someone could argue that if you take your victim by surprise in committing a murder, it’s less heinous because they didn’t know what was coming. :dubious: I think the worst the A.M.A. could do to a member who assisted in an execution is revoke their membership. And I haven’t seen such a provision in the bylaws. Maybe some state medical board forbids it on pain of losing your license, though I can’t confirm that. Incidentally, I’d be willing to bet that more than a few members of this board have gone through incidents where it took a half hour for an IV to be inserted or for blood to be successfully drawn. If all those cases are “torture”, then our Amnesty International rating has just gone down a few more points. ---
**Author:** ![ivan\_astikov](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@ivan\_astikov](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivan_astikov)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2008, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ohio-death-row-inmate-sings-too-fat-polka/459264/45 "2008-08-08T19:49:22Z")
[QUOTE=Jackmannii] I’m not sure you’d want to use that argument in opposition to the death penalty. And how would measurements of psychological “torture” apply to life in prison without parole? What’s the effect of knowing you will never, ever walk free? [/QUOTE] Knowing you will never walk free again is a small price to pay for depriving someone of even the chance to breathe. There is nothing that can really be called inhumane about attempting to prevent a person re-offending. That can be achieved in a secure enough jail, so why is the DP necessary? Taking a life deliberately is deemed the biggest societal sin for the individual, so why should it be different when the state does it? ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2008, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ohio-death-row-inmate-sings-too-fat-polka/459264/46 "2008-08-08T19:52:08Z")
[QUOTE=Una Persson] Despite the implication posted in here, the last I checked no physician was required to be a member of the AMA to practice medicine (I knew a few who let their membership lapse), so whatever “stance” the AMA has has no bearing in law unless it’s been specifically legislated for. [/QUOTE] What implication was that? Are you suggesting there are non-AMA doctors participating in executions? ---
**Author:** ![danceswithcats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9e8a1a/32.png) [@danceswithcats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/danceswithcats)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2008, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ohio-death-row-inmate-sings-too-fat-polka/459264/47 "2008-08-08T20:36:31Z")
Personally, I don’t like lethal injection. It’s a bunch of contrived bullshit in an attempt to appease the Professional Whiners Association. Hanging and firing squads are speedy and effective. Cooey ought to get on a exercise bike and while he’s pedaling, read Mailer’s _The Executioner’s Song_. At least Gary Gilmore wasn’t a little wussy boy. Gary Gilmore: > [@](#): > > “They always want to get in on the act. I don’t think they have ever really done anything effective in their lives. I would like them all — including that group of reverends and rabbis from Salt Lake City — to butt out. This is my life and this is my death. It’s been sanctioned by the courts that I die and I accept that.” ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2008, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ohio-death-row-inmate-sings-too-fat-polka/459264/48 "2008-08-08T20:42:12Z")
[QUOTE=danceswithcats] Hanging and firing squads are speedy and effective. [/QUOTE] Hanging isn’t always reliable. Firing squads, probably more so. ---
**Author:** ![PaulParkhead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7ea924/32.png) [@PaulParkhead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PaulParkhead)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2008, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ohio-death-row-inmate-sings-too-fat-polka/459264/49 "2008-08-08T21:09:48Z")
[QUOTE=Pullet] Is that the same point you were making? [/QUOTE] No. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2008, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ohio-death-row-inmate-sings-too-fat-polka/459264/50 "2008-08-08T21:16:28Z")
[QUOTE=Fear Itself] Heaven forbid we should aspire to greater humanity than a double murderer. [/QUOTE] As an aspiring humanitarian, I’m willing to waive the raping and torturing. ---
**Author:** ![norinew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/eb9ed0/32.png) [@norinew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/norinew)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2008, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ohio-death-row-inmate-sings-too-fat-polka/459264/51 "2008-08-08T21:28:31Z")
> [@jackmanii](#): > > Incidentally, I’d be willing to bet that more than a few members of this board have gone through incidents where it took a half hour for an IV to be inserted or for blood to be successfully drawn. ::raises hand:: That would be me. Once, when I was scheduled for a cystoscopic kidney stone removal, I was actually late getting into the OR because two freakin’ anesthesiologists had to work for better than an hour to get an IV into me. In that hour, they stuck me a combined total of more than 15 times. One of them _finally_ got an IV in the veins in my foot (on the third try). If that was torture, maybe I should have sued? As to the OP, listen, I had a _very_ unhappy childhood. I’d say it was probably on par with the unpleasantness of the subject’s childhood. And yet, I managed to grow up and never murder and/or rape anyone. It’s not that I have no sympathy for him. It’s that, at some point, the greater good of society has to come first, imho. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2008, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ohio-death-row-inmate-sings-too-fat-polka/459264/52 "2008-08-08T21:31:21Z")
[QUOTE=Vinyl Turnip] As an aspiring humanitarian, I’m willing to waive the raping and torturing. [/QUOTE] Baby steps? ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2008, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ohio-death-row-inmate-sings-too-fat-polka/459264/53 "2008-08-08T22:26:37Z")
[QUOTE=Vinyl Turnip] As an aspiring humanitarian, I’m willing to waive the raping and torturing. [/QUOTE] I myself would be willing to go even further, and cut the punishment in half by only killing him once. ---
**Author:** ![danceswithcats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9e8a1a/32.png) [@danceswithcats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/danceswithcats)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2008, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ohio-death-row-inmate-sings-too-fat-polka/459264/54 "2008-08-08T22:32:41Z")
[QUOTE=begbert2] I myself would be willing to go even further, and cut the punishment in half by only killing him once. [/QUOTE] King Solomon could not have spoken wiser words. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Blalron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/35a633/32.png) [@Blalron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blalron)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2008, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ohio-death-row-inmate-sings-too-fat-polka/459264/55 "2008-08-08T23:04:44Z")
[QUOTE=danceswithcats] A I’m really sick and tired of bullshit appeals launched by these bastards who want me to get all in a lather over their feelings at the very end. The two young women he raped and murdered didn’t draw their last breath amidst peals of gleeful laughter. [/QUOTE] How do you know it’s bullshit? Let’s let the courts decide that. Do you just hate the Eighth Amendment and Due Process? ---
**Author:** ![LilShieste](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/9f8e36/32.png) [@LilShieste](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LilShieste)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2008, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ohio-death-row-inmate-sings-too-fat-polka/459264/56 "2008-08-09T01:02:25Z")
[QUOTE=danceswithcats] I’m really sick and tired of bullshit appeals launched by these bastards who want me to get all in a lather over their feelings at the very end. The two young women he raped and murdered didn’t draw their last breath amidst peals of gleeful laughter. [/quote] Yeah, what nerve we have, giving prisoners an appeals process. ETA: What Blalron said. (Read _all posts_ first, _then_ post reply…) ---
**Author:** ![danceswithcats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9e8a1a/32.png) [@danceswithcats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/danceswithcats)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2008, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ohio-death-row-inmate-sings-too-fat-polka/459264/57 "2008-08-09T01:07:42Z")
Context, anyone? Note the passage you’ve quoted and my words “at the very end”. The defendant has his appropriate appeals over the last two plus decades, and I do not object to the such review for a conviction of this gravity. To drag out the appellate process, ad infinitum, and cry boo-hoo, I’m too (fill-in-the-bullshit-blank) to be put to death is an abuse of the system. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2008, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ohio-death-row-inmate-sings-too-fat-polka/459264/58 "2008-08-09T01:13:31Z")
[QUOTE=danceswithcats] To drag out the appellate process, ad infinitum, and cry boo-hoo, I’m too (fill-in-the-bullshit-blank) to be put to death is an abuse of the system. [/QUOTE] 1.) No inmate has ever dragged out the appeals process _ad infinitum_. Their appeal is either granted, or they are executed, well before infinity. 2.) It is not possible to abuse the legal system, at least not without the complicity of the court. Any legal proceeedings are executed only if the court deems them to be meritorious. To that extent, unless a defendant breaks the law by filing a legal motion, no abuse is possible. ---
**Author:** ![LilShieste](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/9f8e36/32.png) [@LilShieste](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LilShieste)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2008, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ohio-death-row-inmate-sings-too-fat-polka/459264/59 "2008-08-09T01:14:49Z")
[QUOTE=danceswithcats] Context, anyone? Note the passage you’ve quoted and my words “at the very end”. The defendant has his appropriate appeals over the last two plus decades, and I do not object to the such review for a conviction of this gravity. To drag out the appellate process, ad infinitum, and cry boo-hoo, I’m too (fill-in-the-bullshit-blank) to be put to death is an abuse of the system. [/QUOTE] The point is: who are you to say how many appeals someone should get? And what you’re seeing is an act of desperation. That you can feel so good about seeing such a behavior is disturbing. ---
**Author:** ![greatshakes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/58956e/32.png) [@greatshakes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/greatshakes)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2008, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ohio-death-row-inmate-sings-too-fat-polka/459264/60 "2008-08-09T02:39:36Z")
[QUOTE=Fear Itself] Heaven forbid we should aspire to greater humanity than a double murderer. [/QUOTE] This would be either a 50%, or 100% improvement than a double murder, depending on what mathematical model you want to use. Proof: 2 innocent victims/1 POS murderer=2/1, so we are twice as humane as him. 1 POS/2 innocent victims=1/2, so there would be one death as opposed to his two. Not counting the variable that he was a cold-blooded murderer, that killed two innocent victims, and had 22 years of life longer than they did. I don’t know how to factor that. IAAHistorian, not mathematician. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ohio-death-row-inmate-sings-too-fat-polka/459264.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ohio-death-row-inmate-sings-too-fat-polka/459264.md?page=4)