# Ohio death row inmate sings "Too Fat Polka" **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 8, 2008, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ohio-death-row-inmate-sings-too-fat-polka/459264 "2008-08-08T04:39:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![greatshakes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/58956e/32.png) [@greatshakes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/greatshakes)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2008, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ohio-death-row-inmate-sings-too-fat-polka/459264/61 "2008-08-09T02:44:46Z")
[QUOTE=Fear Itself] The American Medical Association (AMA) and the National Association of Emergency Medical Technicians (NAEMT) are [both on record](http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/article.php?did=1849&scid=64) as being against their members assisting in executions. I don’t know what body governs trained phlebotomists, but I would be surprised if they did not also believe that assisting in executions violates the basic ethical foundation of medicine; “first, do no harm.” [/QUOTE] You can’t be serious. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2008, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ohio-death-row-inmate-sings-too-fat-polka/459264/62 "2008-08-09T02:50:53Z")
[QUOTE=greatshakes] You can’t be serious. [/QUOTE] Like a heart attack. ---
**Author:** ![greatshakes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/58956e/32.png) [@greatshakes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/greatshakes)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2008, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ohio-death-row-inmate-sings-too-fat-polka/459264/63 "2008-08-09T02:52:10Z")
[QUOTE=Vinyl Turnip] As an aspiring humanitarian, I’m willing to waive the raping and torturing. [/QUOTE] Hmmmm…that’s food for thought. Perhaps waive the rape and death, and keep the torture? You, Vinyl, have opened up many new and exciting vistas, which may perhaps be explored! Well done. ---
**Author:** ![greatshakes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/58956e/32.png) [@greatshakes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/greatshakes)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2008, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ohio-death-row-inmate-sings-too-fat-polka/459264/64 "2008-08-09T02:58:09Z")
[QUOTE=Giles] I did a quick search for information on him, and found that he was severed abused by his father as a child. So the solution for childhood abuse leading to a stupid rape and murder… [/QUOTE] Stop it, stop it! That is too much to swallow even in the Pit. “Leading to a stupid rape and murder?” Rape and murder are not ‘stupid.’ Buying a 64 Dodge Dart as an investment is stupid. Sex with the bosses wife/daughter at work is stupid. Rape and Murder are horrendous, and that is the best thing that you can say about them. Also, that is assuming that the abuse ‘led’ to them, which it didn’t. greatshakes ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2008, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ohio-death-row-inmate-sings-too-fat-polka/459264/65 "2008-08-09T03:08:22Z")
[QUOTE=danceswithcats] For all of you DP opponents, save your bandwidth. [/QUOTE] Just checking in to say that it doesn’t cost me any bandwidth to speak of to mention that the death penalty is wrong. Thank you for your patience. ---
**Author:** ![LilShieste](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/9f8e36/32.png) [@LilShieste](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LilShieste)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2008, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ohio-death-row-inmate-sings-too-fat-polka/459264/66 "2008-08-09T03:34:33Z")
[QUOTE=greatshakes] This would be either a 50%, or 100% improvement than a double murder, depending on what mathematical model you want to use. Proof: 2 innocent victims/1 POS murderer=2/1, so we are twice as humane as him. 1 POS/2 innocent victims=1/2, so there would be one death as opposed to his two. Not counting the variable that he was a cold-blooded murderer, that killed two innocent victims, and had 22 years of life longer than they did. I don’t know how to factor that. IAAHistorian, not mathematician. [/QUOTE] By these calculations, Cooey is almost 17 times more humane than John Wayne Gacy! Good thing you put things into perspective for us! > [@greatshakes](#): > > Stop it, stop it! That is too much to swallow even in the Pit. “Leading to a stupid rape and murder?” Rape and murder are not ‘stupid.’ Buying a 64 Dodge Dart as an investment is stupid. Sex with the bosses wife/daughter at work is stupid. > Rape and Murder are horrendous, and that is the best thing that you can say about them. Murder is stupid _and_ horrendous. Murdering someone for revenge is just as stupid and horrendous. > [@greatshakes](#): > > Also, that is assuming that the abuse ‘led’ to them, which it didn’t. Well, that settles that. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2008, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ohio-death-row-inmate-sings-too-fat-polka/459264/67 "2008-08-09T03:58:36Z")
[QUOTE=greatshakes] Not counting the variable that he was a cold-blooded murderer, that killed two innocent victims, and had 22 years of life longer than they did. I don’t know how to factor that. IAAHistorian, not mathematician. [/QUOTE] [Here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=10071096&postcount=112) ya go. > [@Blaster Master](#): > > You know what, I’ve resisted the urge to do it up to this point, but I don’t think I can explain it any simpler than with some mathematical notation. > > Let R be a vector of all basic rights. Also, let f(Ri) be a valuation function for any specific right Ri. For simplicity’s sake, let R be ordered such that R0 is the right to life. Let V be a vector of the values of the victim’s rights and C be a vector of the values of the criminal’s rights. > > For each i, f(Ri) = Vi = Ci [eq A]. The value of each right for both the criminal and the victim is the same. I can’t imagine there’d be any dispute on this one. Besides, the rest remains true unless the values of the rights of the criminal are somehow greater than the victim. > > f(R0) \> Σ(i = 1, n, f(Ri)) [eq. B]. The right to life is more valuable than a summation of all other rights. You don’t disagree with that per the quote. > > Hence, equitableness can then be defined such that Σv = Σc where v is a subset of V and c is a subset of C. It’s equitable when the value of the rights of the victim that were violated are equal to the rights that the criminal forfeits. Side point: If Σv \> Σc, then it is unbalanced such that the criminal received too little punishment; if Σv \< Σc, it is unbalanced such that the criminal received too much. > > Let v = V0. Then we need to determine the value of c in the following equation: V0 = Σc. > > f(R0) = Σc [eq. C]. From [eq. A], substitution. > > Let’s assume that c includes all rights in C except C0 because this is the maximum punishment that doesn’t include C0 and. Thus, Σc = Σ(i = 1, n, f(Ci)) = Σ(i = 1, n, f(Ri)) [eq. D]. From [eq. A], substitution. > > f(R0) = Σ(i = 1, n, f(Ri)). Using [eq. D] to substitute into [eq. C]. > > f(R0) - Σ(i = 1, n, f(Ri)) = 0. Subtracting the same value from both sides. > > This is a contradiction with [eq. B] because the first term is larger than the second and thus the result cannot be 0. Hence, c MUST include C0 or it violates the premise of [eq. B], with which you agreed. Obviously, being a mathmetician does not help your argument. ---
**Author:** ![Subway\_Prophet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecb155/32.png) [@Subway\_Prophet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Subway_Prophet)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2008, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ohio-death-row-inmate-sings-too-fat-polka/459264/68 "2008-08-09T14:30:27Z")
I don’t have a dog in this fight - I don’t know what this guy did, I didn’t serve on the jury, I didn’t read the article - hell, I didn’t even read this whole thread. In fact, I suffered an acute attack of oculitory rotation from this gem in the OP: [QUOTE=danceswithcats] I’m really sick and tired of bullshit appeals launched by these bastards who want me to get all in a lather over their feelings at the very end. [/QUOTE] I don’t know about you, but personally I like living within a legal system that allows a nearly endless stream of appeals for people on death row. When I finally end up there \* I’ll be happy to have lawyers filing all kinds of silly paperwork to delay or prevent the state from pilfering my mortal coil. Because I’d be, you know, innocent of all charges. (Maybe.) Pro- or anti-death penalty notwithstanding, if we live in a nation where it’s legal, then I want the delays built into the laws, dammit. - Likely due to a totally bogus trumped-up charge of driving with cell phone while turning in a turn-only lane without a turn signal, while aiming to sideswipe the car of the asshat driver in front of me who pelted my car with his cigarette butt. I will have been totally framed, man. ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2008, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ohio-death-row-inmate-sings-too-fat-polka/459264/69 "2008-08-09T15:15:27Z")
[QUOTE=Subway Prophet] I don’t know about you, but personally I like living within a legal system that allows a nearly endless stream of appeals for people on death row. When I finally end up there \* I’ll be happy to have lawyers filing all kinds of silly paperwork to delay or prevent the state from pilfering my mortal coil. Because I’d be, you know, innocent of all charges. (Maybe.) [/QUOTE] I would disagree with that. If you were using the appeals process to prove your innocence, I’d be right behind you. Even if you were just using it to move your guilt from “beyond a shadow of a doubt” to “beyond reasonable doubt” to get yourself off death row, I’d support this use of the process. If you were trying to prove that there were extenuating circumstances, or that you had an excuse for acting as you did, then again I’d support you. But if you just want to use an appeal to delay, then I cannot support giving you this option, no matter what your motivation. In this particular case, there is only one thing Cooey can do to convince me he should be taken off death row, and that’s to cast doubt on whether he did it or not. If he can’t do that, I don’t care if he was abused, on drugs, overweight, a model citizen or a Martian. ---
**Author:** ![Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bc8723/32.png) [@Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fish)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2008, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ohio-death-row-inmate-sings-too-fat-polka/459264/70 "2008-08-09T15:42:32Z")
So long as the death penalty is legal in his state, I’m reluctantly inclined to agree: if an inmate is going to push his appeals as long as he can, deliberately get fat and out-of-shape, it’s hardly fair for him to then be protected from punishment for his crime because he’s fat and out-of-shape. If he were appealing his _innocence_ I would have no problem with that. If we are going to have a death penalty — and some states do — then we’d better be pretty goddamned sure the guy’s guilty. But he’s protesting that he’s not _healthy_ enough to kill, and he doesn’t wanna get an owie when they poke him with needles, so he’s trying to weasel out of it. Doesn’t seem right to me. Maybe in the future, execution orders could be changed from “sentenced to death by X method” into “sentenced to death by any constitutionally approved method.” That way there’s nothing to weasel against. Too fat to hang? Inject him. Too flabby to inject? Gas him. Throw in a nice provision that execution duties could be farmed out to another state with a different method, and you’d have a bushel basket of execution methods. I’m not a huge supporter of the death penalty in the first place. Generally I think the death penalty is over-applied and used in cases where the _crime_ is heinous but the _evidence_ is scant. If we demanded stronger certainty in a death penalty case, it would make me — well, not happier, but less queasy about the whole thing. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2008, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ohio-death-row-inmate-sings-too-fat-polka/459264/71 "2008-08-09T18:44:49Z")
[QUOTE=Grumman] But if you just want to use an appeal to delay, then I cannot support giving you this option, no matter what your motivation. [/QUOTE] And you know it when you see, no matter what the inmate says? ---
**Author:** ![greatshakes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/58956e/32.png) [@greatshakes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/greatshakes)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2008, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ohio-death-row-inmate-sings-too-fat-polka/459264/72 "2008-08-09T18:56:35Z")
[QUOTE=LilShieste] Murder is stupid _and_ horrendous. Murdering someone for revenge is just as stupid and horrendous. [/QUOTE] Well, that settles that! ---
**Author:** ![danceswithcats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9e8a1a/32.png) [@danceswithcats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/danceswithcats)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2008, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ohio-death-row-inmate-sings-too-fat-polka/459264/73 "2008-08-09T23:07:13Z")
[QUOTE=LilShieste] Murder is stupid _and_ horrendous. Murdering someone for revenge is just as stupid and horrendous. [/QUOTE] It’s not revenge, it’s this running deal the judicial system has with all of us, you see. They don’t sentence you to die unless you intentionally cause someone else to die. If you break the deal, then it sucks to be you. I’m one of the folks who believe in holding up my end of a deal. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2008, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ohio-death-row-inmate-sings-too-fat-polka/459264/74 "2008-08-09T23:23:53Z")
[QUOTE=danceswithcats] It’s not revenge, it’s this running deal the judicial system has with all of us, you see. They don’t sentence you to die unless you intentionally cause someone else to die. If you break the deal, then it sucks to be you. I’m one of the folks who believe in holding up my end of a deal. 😛 [/QUOTE] So why doesn’t the state rape rapists? ---
**Author:** ![rayh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e79b87/32.png) [@rayh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rayh)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2008, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ohio-death-row-inmate-sings-too-fat-polka/459264/75 "2008-08-10T00:02:31Z")
[QUOTE=danceswithcats] They don’t sentence you to die unless you intentionally cause someone else to die. [/QUOTE] [They don’t?](http://www.geocities.com/gfadp/innocent.html) > [@](#): > > At least 23 people this century have been executed and later found innocent according to Michael Radelet and Hugo Adam Bedau in their book entitled Inspite of Innocence. > > According to the Equal Justice Project, 16 more innocent people have been executed in the United States. ---
**Author:** ![Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/cc9497/32.png) [@Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capt.Ridley_s_Shooting_Party)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2008, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ohio-death-row-inmate-sings-too-fat-polka/459264/76 "2008-08-10T00:40:21Z")
[QUOTE=Fear Itself] So why doesn’t the state rape rapists? [/QUOTE] Why would the state rape rapists? ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2008, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ohio-death-row-inmate-sings-too-fat-polka/459264/77 "2008-08-10T00:56:41Z")
This miserable piece of shit deserves to die and it should have been done years ago. If he’s too fucking fat for the needle, then there are other methods. I don’t know why we don’t just execute pustules like him with a pistol shot behind the ear. It’s quick. It’s effective. It’s cheap. I don’t know if it’s completely painless, but that is neither here nor there. I don’t see any problem with him spending his last moments of existence in pain. Hospitals are full of sick people doing just that. Why should we give him an easier death than the average terminal cancer patient? Killing him won’t bring back the two girls he killed and he isn’t going to kill any more while he’s locked up, it’s true. Killing him won’t even have a deterrent effect on other pustules like him. I don’t care about any of that. The world will be a better place without him in it and that is enough reason to to destroy him. ---
**Author:** ![thelurkinghorror](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2008, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ohio-death-row-inmate-sings-too-fat-polka/459264/78 "2008-08-10T01:29:20Z")
[QUOTE=Fear Itself] So why doesn’t the state rape rapists? [/QUOTE] Insert joke about most rapists paying taxes. ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2008, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ohio-death-row-inmate-sings-too-fat-polka/459264/79 "2008-08-10T01:38:19Z")
[QUOTE=Fear Itself] And you know it when you see, no matter what the inmate says? [/QUOTE] No, I can’t, not if they are acting like they are trying to prove they are less guilty. But Cooey isn’t even doing that. Cooey’s claim that he’s too fat to be executed should be irrelevant as to the question of if or when he should be executed. He’s still a raping, murdering monster and there are other ways to send him to oblivion if you don’t want his pain on your conscience. ---
**Author:** ![danceswithcats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9e8a1a/32.png) [@danceswithcats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/danceswithcats)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2008, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ohio-death-row-inmate-sings-too-fat-polka/459264/80 "2008-08-10T03:20:28Z")
Thank you, **Grumman** , and **Fish** for grasping the concept to which many are wilfully obtuse. Apologies to othe DP supporters not noted. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ohio-death-row-inmate-sings-too-fat-polka/459264.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ohio-death-row-inmate-sings-too-fat-polka/459264.md?page=5)