# Ohio is suing drug manufacturers, alleging they are culpable for the opioid epidemic **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 31, 2017, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ohio-is-suing-drug-manufacturers-alleging-they-are-culpable-for-the-opioid-epidemic/787801 "2017-05-31T22:53:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_stamos_left_ear/32/3198_2.png) [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Stamos_Left_Ear)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2017, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ohio-is-suing-drug-manufacturers-alleging-they-are-culpable-for-the-opioid-epidemic/787801/1 "2017-05-31T22:53:08Z")
> [@](#): > > Attorney General Mike DeWine is suing five drug-manufacturers for flooding Ohio with addictive painkillers and putting “profits above the health and well-being of Ohio consumers.” > > “We believe the evidence will show that these companies got thousands and thousands of Ohioans — our friends, our family members, our co-workers, our kids — addicted to opioid pain medications, which has all too often led to use of the cheaper alternatives of heroin and synthetic opioids,” DeWine said in a statement. > > DeWine said manufacturers spent tens of millions of dollars aggressively marketing their addictive products to doctors and then would “deny and trivialize” the impact of opioids on patients. > > He also accused them of Medicaid fraud and violating the Ohio Consumer Sales Practices Act., and is seeking unspecified damages on behalf of the state and repayment to consumers. > > [Columbus Dispatch](http://www.dispatch.com/news/20170531/dewine-sues-five-drug-makers-over-ohio-opioid-epidemic) I feel that the pharmaceutical industry is just as responsible, if not more so, than the other suspects in the spiraling costs of healthcare in America. I abhor that we are [one of only two Western nations](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Direct-to-consumer_advertising) to allow DTC Advertising for drug manufacturers. It makes me crazy that our tax dollars go towards the research and development that they should be paying instead of [commercials during the Super Bowl](http://money.cnn.com/2016/02/11/news/super-bowl-painkiller-constipation-ad/) but [they reap the profits](http://abcnews.go.com/WNT/YourMoney/story?id=129651) from that R&D. But all that said, I am not sure how likely it is that DeWine, the Ohio AG, can win this suit. I can’t see the drug manufacturers settling as it would open the door for every other state to go after them. And while it can be argued that in it’s current state the [pharmaceutical industry is immoral](http://www.peoplesworld.org/article/cancer-doctors-slam-drug-industry-for-immoral-profiteering/) and [not only in America](https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/feb/22/hiv-aids-deaths-pharmaceutical-industry), lacking ethics is not necessarily illegal. The defense can be found in the statement in the article from Janssen Pharmaceuticals: > [@](#): > > “We firmly believe the allegations in this lawsuit are both legally and factually unfounded. Janssen has acted appropriately, responsibly and in the best interests of patients regarding our opioid pain medications, which are FDA-approved and carry FDA-mandated warnings about the known risks of the medications on every product label.” A side note, I didn’t expect that a conservative would lead this cause since like any big business, [big Pharma donated heavily to Republican candidates](https://www.statnews.com/2016/11/02/fearing-democratic-tidal-wave-drug-industry-pouring-money-gop-coffers/) in the last election cycle. It is possible that DeVine and Kasich will lead a charge from the right on this issue in spite of trends even if they are not successful with this lawsuit? Finally, how helpful is this suit going to be in the ongoing opioid drug war? Will getting drug manufacturers to clean up their act and spend money combating the problem make a dent in what is [becoming an epidemic](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opioid_epidemic)? ---
**Author:** ![Translucent\_Daydream](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/translucent_daydream/32/16170_2.png) [@Translucent\_Daydream](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Translucent_Daydream)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2017, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ohio-is-suing-drug-manufacturers-alleging-they-are-culpable-for-the-opioid-epidemic/787801/2 "2017-05-31T23:03:18Z")
I can’t decide for myself if this is a good thing to do or not. I understand the sentiment behind it but I’m not sure where the legal footing for all of this stands. It is really fucking up first responders though (the opioid crisis.) I talked to a cop that was standing in line at a gas station with me about it and she told me something to the effect of, “going to overdose calls keeps me awake at night.” She felt powerless to help. ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2017, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ohio-is-suing-drug-manufacturers-alleging-they-are-culpable-for-the-opioid-epidemic/787801/3 "2017-06-01T00:29:26Z")
No. All the opioids are prescription drugs–and thus must be prescribed by a physician. Physicians have a responsibility to look at scientific evidence and prescribing standards by professional groups and the government–not just mindlessly prescribe what the drug companies are advertising. ---
**Author:** ![ZipperJJ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zipperjj/32/211_2.png) [@ZipperJJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZipperJJ)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2017, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ohio-is-suing-drug-manufacturers-alleging-they-are-culpable-for-the-opioid-epidemic/787801/4 "2017-06-01T00:56:38Z")
> [@PastTense](#): > > No. All the opioids are prescription drugs–and thus must be prescribed by a physician. Physicians have a responsibility to look at scientific evidence and prescribing standards by professional groups and the government–not just mindlessly prescribe what the drug companies are advertising. I heard DeWine being interviewed on NPR and it’s his (office’s) stance that the drug reps specifically told the doctors that the drugs weren’t habit forming. They must not feel that the docs had a responsibility to check the claims or maybe feel they didn’t have the research available. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2017, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ohio-is-suing-drug-manufacturers-alleging-they-are-culpable-for-the-opioid-epidemic/787801/5 "2017-06-01T01:09:23Z")
> [@ZipperJJ](#): > > I heard DeWine being interviewed on NPR and it’s his (office’s) stance that the drug reps specifically told the doctors that the drugs weren’t habit forming. They must not feel that the docs had a responsibility to check the claims or maybe feel they didn’t have the research available. Wait a minute. Opioids are not habit forming? Haven’t we know otherwise for, like, 200 years? ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2017, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ohio-is-suing-drug-manufacturers-alleging-they-are-culpable-for-the-opioid-epidemic/787801/6 "2017-06-01T01:18:19Z")
> [@Translucent\_Daydream](#): > > I can’t decide for myself if this is a good thing to do or not. I understand the sentiment behind it but I’m not sure where the legal footing for all of this stands. It is really fucking up first responders though (the opioid crisis.) > > I talked to a cop that was standing in line at a gas station with me about it and she told me something to the effect of, “going to overdose calls keeps me awake at night.” She felt powerless to help. According to the article in the OP, the drug companies sold 3.8 billion opioid pills over 5 years. That comes out to 65 pills per resident per year. It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to see that is a ridiculous number and that their products were being abused. ---
**Author:** ![Evan\_Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b487fb/32.png) [@Evan\_Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evan_Drake)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2017, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ohio-is-suing-drug-manufacturers-alleging-they-are-culpable-for-the-opioid-epidemic/787801/7 "2017-06-01T01:44:36Z")
Well, as the old joke goes, if the average is a bottle of whisky a week, and 8 out of 10 are teetotal, somebody’s getting more than their fair share. Still, no-one holds a gun to their heads, and a more useful enquiry would be how to assuage the pain that needs these opiates for millions. Seems a very sick society ( and I mean the world, not especially America ). The fear of pain-killers seems overwrought puritans gone wild. Anyway, when I was in hospital for 2 days when I smashed my arm recently they gave me morphine, which seemed foul enough; since the minute I left I’ve been on paracetamol, with it’s attendant of potential liver damage: however another dope I can buy over the counter was co-codamol — yet on the packet it said to only take for 2 days, evidently any further and I would become a Codeine Fiend. None of these things are marvellously effective. And even if I would excoriate these manufacturers for over-selling etc., it’s rather like Prohibition: until there are laws for them to break, and it can be shown they have deliberately broken laws, why should they be accused ? ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2017, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ohio-is-suing-drug-manufacturers-alleging-they-are-culpable-for-the-opioid-epidemic/787801/8 "2017-06-01T01:51:28Z")
Shouldn’t this be in the Pit? This is insane. They should be suing all those pill mill doctors and the pharmacies which are in cahoots with them. :mad: Any pharmacist with even a shred of competence knows the difference between legitimate use, and this kind of thing. ---
**Author:** ![UCBearcats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/77aa72/32.png) [@UCBearcats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UCBearcats)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2017, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ohio-is-suing-drug-manufacturers-alleging-they-are-culpable-for-the-opioid-epidemic/787801/9 "2017-06-01T01:51:51Z")
Let all of the OD abusers die and eventually it won’t be a problem. ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2017, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ohio-is-suing-drug-manufacturers-alleging-they-are-culpable-for-the-opioid-epidemic/787801/10 "2017-06-01T01:58:30Z")
> [@UCBearcats](#): > > Let all of the OD abusers die and eventually it won’t be a problem. Am I a bad person for agreeing with you? ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2017, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ohio-is-suing-drug-manufacturers-alleging-they-are-culpable-for-the-opioid-epidemic/787801/11 "2017-06-01T02:03:05Z")
> [@nearwildheaven](#): > > Am I a bad person for agreeing with you? Callous and indifferent? Yes. Bad? I’m not sure what that even means. ---
**Author:** ![Evan\_Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b487fb/32.png) [@Evan\_Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evan_Drake)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2017, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ohio-is-suing-drug-manufacturers-alleging-they-are-culpable-for-the-opioid-epidemic/787801/12 "2017-06-01T02:10:27Z")
> [@nearwildheaven](#): > > Shouldn’t this be in the Pit? > > This is insane. They should be suing all those pill mill doctors and the pharmacies which are in cahoots with them. :mad: Any pharmacist with even a shred of competence knows the difference between legitimate use, and this kind of thing. Actually a month ago I read a Guardian article from a year ago which makes the whole thing seem kinda hopeless: **[How cracking down on America’s painkiller capital led to a heroin crisis](https://www.theguardian.com/science/2016/may/25/opioid-epidemic-prescription-painkillers-heroin-addiction)** I had never heard of pill mills. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2017, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ohio-is-suing-drug-manufacturers-alleging-they-are-culpable-for-the-opioid-epidemic/787801/13 "2017-06-01T02:29:51Z")
I’m sure that this is motivated by a need to be seen to be doing something about the problem. Is it the right thing to do? I have no idea. ---
**Author:** ![Isamu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/7c8e57/32.png) [@Isamu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isamu)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2017, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ohio-is-suing-drug-manufacturers-alleging-they-are-culpable-for-the-opioid-epidemic/787801/14 "2017-06-01T02:43:52Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Wait a minute. Opioids are not habit forming? Haven’t we know otherwise for, like, 200 years? Ohh no no no my dear boy! The desire to alleviate pain via consumption of pain releiving opiods causes the patients to mimic drug-addict behaviours. 😃 That’s what one doctor actually said. lol ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2017, 12:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ohio-is-suing-drug-manufacturers-alleging-they-are-culpable-for-the-opioid-epidemic/787801/15 "2017-06-01T12:52:03Z")
> [@ZipperJJ](#): > > I heard DeWine being interviewed on NPR and it’s his (office’s) stance that the drug reps specifically told the doctors that the drugs weren’t habit forming. They must not feel that the docs had a responsibility to check the claims or maybe feel they didn’t have the research available. I don’t think the doctors had to do much research - it’s on the fucking label. > [@Janssen Pharmaceuticals](#): > > We firmly believe the allegations in this lawsuit are both legally and factually unfounded. Janssen has acted appropriately, responsibly and in the best interests of patients regarding our opioid pain medications, which are FDA-approved and **carry FDA-mandated warnings about the known risks of the medications on every product label.** Emphasis added. I’m trying to imagine the conversation with a doctor in Ohio. “So you are handing out Fentanyl like candy, and your patients are ODing all over the place. Did you even read the cotton-picking label?” “The drug rep told me it wasn’t addictive.” “Oh well, then - no problem. It’s the drug companies’ fault - we sue! By the way, how did you break your leg?” “I jumped off the roof.” “Why did you do that?” “Well, the builder told me I could fly.” Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2017, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ohio-is-suing-drug-manufacturers-alleging-they-are-culpable-for-the-opioid-epidemic/787801/16 "2017-06-01T16:26:51Z")
> [@Isamu](#): > > Ohh no no no my dear boy! The desire to alleviate pain via consumption of pain releiving opiods causes the patients to mimic drug-addict behaviors. 😃 That’s what one doctor actually said. lol The thing is that is actually the case. My wife is on a methadone regimen for severe chronic neuropathic pain. This is a real thing, and without meds would leave her in torturous pain, non opiates did nothing to help, she was on Oxycodone for a while but methadone was the godsend that really let her lead a marginally full life. She only take her medication as directed, but exhibits many of the behaviors that one might if one were an addict. Hording pills, being dreadfully afraid of missing an appointment, being tied to her current pain management specialist for fear another provider might not proscribe her medication, asking for a prescription at a slightly higher dose than she normally uses so she can have extra in case she can’t make an appointment. A fear that a snow storm might hit the day of her appointment and she would run out before she and reschedule. The one time she lost her prescription and actually did run out, she was actually screaming and crying on the phone to the receptionist when they said she couldn’t get her in for at least another week. My wife is definitely dependent on opioids which some might say means she is addicted, but only in the same way a diabetic is addicted to insulin. She gets panic attacks every time she hears news about the opioid epidemic for fear that she might no longer be able to get her medication at the dose she needs. ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2017, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ohio-is-suing-drug-manufacturers-alleging-they-are-culpable-for-the-opioid-epidemic/787801/17 "2017-06-01T16:47:33Z")
> [@Buck\_Godot](#): > > The one time she lost her prescription and actually did run out, she was actually screaming and crying on the phone to the receptionist when they said she couldn’t get her in for at least another week. What happened? Did she suffer for a week? ---
**Author:** ![JcWoman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jcwoman/32/2889_2.png) [@JcWoman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JcWoman)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2017, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ohio-is-suing-drug-manufacturers-alleging-they-are-culpable-for-the-opioid-epidemic/787801/18 "2017-06-01T17:00:47Z")
> [@Buck\_Godot](#): > > The thing is that is actually the case. My wife is on a methadone regimen for severe chronic neuropathic pain. This is a real thing, and without meds would leave her in torturous pain, non opiates did nothing to help, she was on Oxycodone for a while but methadone was the godsend that really let her lead a marginally full life. She only take her medication as directed, but exhibits many of the behaviors that one might if one were an addict. Hording pills, being dreadfully afraid of missing an appointment, being tied to her current pain management specialist for fear another provider might not proscribe her medication, asking for a prescription at a slightly higher dose than she normally uses so she can have extra in case she can’t make an appointment. A fear that a snow storm might hit the day of her appointment and she would run out before she and reschedule. The one time she lost her prescription and actually did run out, she was actually screaming and crying on the phone to the receptionist when they said she couldn’t get her in for at least another week. > My wife is definitely dependent on opioids which some might say means she is addicted, but only in the same way a diabetic is addicted to insulin. She gets panic attacks every time she hears news about the opioid epidemic for fear that she might no longer be able to get her medication at the dose she needs. I’m sorry for your wife, that’s a shitty situation. I can also empathize a little bit, although with me it’s my overly expensive arthritis medications. I’ve come close to behaving like your wife, because the asshole pharmacy management company (Curascript, ExpressScripts, you name it, they’re all the same) so carefully controls when I can get my refills. The drugs are ONLY mailed to me, so that takes a few days from the time I call in a refill. If you make the mistake of mailing in a new rx to them, you’re looking at two weeks minimum but more like four before you get your meds. And you can’t order the refill one day before they think you should because they will tell you to fuck off. They are as compassionate as machines. It’s very different from the “olden days” of the neighborhood pharmacy that had humans who would spot you a pill or three to get you over until your refill was ready. So yeah, my arthritis meds aren’t opiate, or even pain killers really. But I got into the habit of trying to hoard them, too. There was one time when beareaucratic screwups at the pharmacy management company resulted in me having to go 6 weeks without a dose (supposed to be once a week) of my arthritis med. I called them SO many times and they just could not give a shit. Can you imagine if that was a life saving med? ---
**Author:** ![Ann\_Hedonia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ann_hedonia/32/319_2.png) [@Ann\_Hedonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Hedonia)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2017, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ohio-is-suing-drug-manufacturers-alleging-they-are-culpable-for-the-opioid-epidemic/787801/19 "2017-06-01T23:32:03Z")
> [@Evan\_Drake](#): > > Well, as the old joke goes, if the average is a bottle of whisky a week, and 8 out of 10 are teetotal, somebody’s getting more than their fair share. > > Still, no-one holds a gun to their heads, and a more useful enquiry would be how to assuage the pain that needs these opiates for millions. Seems a very sick society ( and I mean the world, not especially America ). > > And even if I would excoriate these manufacturers for over-selling etc., it’s rather like Prohibition: until there are laws for them to break, and it can be shown they have deliberately broken laws, why should they be accused ? I believe the crime that Purdue Pharmaceuticals and 3 of their executives were found guilty of in 2007 was fraud. [http://www.nytimes.com/2007/07/21/business/21pharma.html](http://www.nytimes.com/2007/07/21/business/21pharma.html) Although the convictions were based on overselling and downplaying the risks of addiction, the OxyContin situation is more complex. The high price of the drug is justified by the claim that it provided 12 hour pain relief. But it really doesn’t. It wears off early in a large percentage of patients. But Purdue has always been insistent about the 12 hour dosing and they instruct physicians to up the doseage rather than decreasing the interval. Apparently this leads to a cycle of withdrawals and cravings that greatly exacerbate the addiction potential of the drug. > **[OxyContin's 12-hour problem — and its central role in the prescription opioid...](https://www.minnpost.com/second-opinion/2016/05/oxycontins-12-hour-problem-and-its-central-role-prescription-opioid-epidemic/)** > > Twelve hours of pain relief is the drug’s key selling point. But for many patients, it falls short. . ---
**Author:** ![obbn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/d6d6ee/32.png) [@obbn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/obbn)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2017, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ohio-is-suing-drug-manufacturers-alleging-they-are-culpable-for-the-opioid-epidemic/787801/20 "2017-06-02T00:36:52Z")
A physician prescribing happen opiods in large amounts to a specific patient isn’t necessarily over prescribing. I’m a chronic pain patient and for ten years I’ve had opiods prescribed to me. 180 morphine pills a month and 180 oxycodone. And you know what? I needed it. But what’s going is that doctors are going to be too scared to write opiod scripts to those of us who really need them. Here in Florida, the DEA had come down on doctors and pharmacies hard. My doctor is afraid to write me scripts now. He won’t write me anything stronger than Tramadol and I’m in constant pain as its not working. Even if he wrote me for morphine, good luck trying to find a pharmacy to fill it. I realize that drug abuse is a problem. But sadly the ones that are really going to pay the price for this are legitimate pain patients. Thanks druggies. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ohio-is-suing-drug-manufacturers-alleging-they-are-culpable-for-the-opioid-epidemic/787801.md?page=2)