# Ohio Issue Watch 2023 **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [November 7, 2023, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ohio-issue-watch-2023/992753 "2023-11-07T14:25:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2023, 1:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ohio-issue-watch-2023/992753/41 "2023-11-08T13:00:45Z")
> [@Railer13](#): > > Nobody has ever claimed that any governmental entity can _force_ a woman to have an abortion. Well, China mandated abortions when they were enforcing their “one child” policy. And the US used to forcibly sterilize some people. So it’s not an impossible stretch. But i haven’t seen any call for forced abortions in the US. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2023, 1:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ohio-issue-watch-2023/992753/42 "2023-11-08T13:05:37Z")
> [@hajario](#): > > How very “open minded” of you. What about the rights of people in say TX and MS where the Conservatives have made it so there’s no initiative process? States rights–whether the right to preserve slavery, the right to preserve Jim Crow, or the right to force pregnancy and childbirth–are fundamentally antithetical to liberty. They position the holder of “rights” as the state, not the individual, and are much friendlier to fascism than to the American project of democracy. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2023, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ohio-issue-watch-2023/992753/43 "2023-11-08T13:08:47Z")
> [@hajario](#): > > How very “open minded” of you. What about the rights of people in say TX and MS where the Conservatives have made it so there’s no initiative process? If folks there can’t get the law changed by plebiscite, I’m of course in favor of them doing it via their elected officials — or, possibly, this success with the Ohio Constitution can serve as a blueprint for doing likewise with the US Constitution? If you have other suggestions, I’m, uh, “open minded” to hearing them, or something. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2023, 1:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ohio-issue-watch-2023/992753/44 "2023-11-08T13:17:34Z")
Not really possible with the gerrymandering. My suggestion is that women should have a right to make their own decisions and that right should be granted at the national level. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2023, 1:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ohio-issue-watch-2023/992753/45 "2023-11-08T13:19:07Z")
> [@hajario](#): > > My suggestion is that women should have a right to make their own decisions and that right should be granted at the national level. We could even handle it by–wait, hear me out–a federal court decision enshrining the right to bodily autonomy. Give it a funny-sounding name that sounds like how you cross a river. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2023, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ohio-issue-watch-2023/992753/46 "2023-11-08T13:22:27Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > We could even handle it by–wait, hear me out–a federal court decision enshrining the right to bodily autonomy. Give it a funny-sounding name that sounds like how you cross a river. No, it’s not a _judicial_ matter; it’s a _legislative_ one. It’s a matter of making law, not interpreting it. It’s the difference between amending the US Constitution and — not actually amending it. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2023, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ohio-issue-watch-2023/992753/47 "2023-11-08T13:27:00Z")
We’ll just wait around then like we did for the 13th Amendment. Definitely a legislative thing. Important to stand on principle and all. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2023, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ohio-issue-watch-2023/992753/48 "2023-11-08T13:33:44Z")
> [@hajario](#): > > We’ll just wait around then like we did for the 13th Amendment. Definitely a legislative thing. Important to stand on principle and all You’re making my point for me. We want the 13th Amendment to stay in place; we don’t want it removed with the stroke of a pen by a court decision. You’re making an argument _for_ law. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2023, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ohio-issue-watch-2023/992753/49 "2023-11-08T13:37:10Z")
No I’m not. We shouldn’t have needed the 13th and we shouldn’t have to wait for something similar for the right for women to have bodily autonomy ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2023, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ohio-issue-watch-2023/992753/50 "2023-11-08T13:40:22Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > No, it’s not a _judicial_ matter; it’s a _legislative_ one. It’s a matter of making law, not interpreting it. It’s the difference between amending the US Constitution and — not actually amending it. For about half a century, it was a judicial matter, and women could get abortions. Before and after it was a judicial matter, it was a legislative matter, and in many states the government denied women their bodily autonomy. Your case for making it a legislative matter sucks. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2023, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ohio-issue-watch-2023/992753/51 "2023-11-08T13:43:27Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > For about half a century, it was a judicial matter, and women could get abortions. The decision was egregiously wrong on Day One. It remained egregiously wrong on Day Two and Day Three, and was still just as wrong in Decade Two and Decade Three. But, like Ohio, the Supreme Court has it right now. ---
**Author:** ![flurb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/51bf81/32.png) [@flurb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flurb)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2023, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ohio-issue-watch-2023/992753/52 "2023-11-08T13:55:14Z")
Presumably, @The_Other_Waldo_Pepper, you carry this same perspective on other previously “state” issues that were resolved through federal judicial fiat – access to contraception, gay marriage, interracial marriage, etc.? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2023, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ohio-issue-watch-2023/992753/53 "2023-11-08T14:18:05Z")
> [@flurb](#): > > Presumably, @The_Other_Waldo_Pepper, you carry this same perspective on other previously “state” issues that were resolved through federal judicial fiat – access to contraception, gay marriage, interracial marriage, etc. We’re getting a bit far afield from someone saying this involves Republicans saying _not like that_ and me saying _yes like that,_ but: it’s my understanding that banning gay marriage is discrimination on the basis of sex, and can be struck down judicially; and that banning interracial marriage is discrimination on the basis of race, and can be struck down judicially; and that overturning Roe involved saying _hey, wait a minute; the Constitution doesn’t say shit about this._ As far as I can tell, it also doesn’t say shit about contraceptives. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2023, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ohio-issue-watch-2023/992753/54 "2023-11-08T14:59:29Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > The decision was egregiously wrong on Day One. The decision returned autonomy to women on Day One. A legal system that, in order to be right, enables tyrannical control over bodies is a shit legal system. The ends may not justify the means; but if the end is fucked up, that indicts the means. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2023, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ohio-issue-watch-2023/992753/55 "2023-11-08T15:02:11Z")
> [@MulderMuffin](#): > > > [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > > > O-H! > > I-O! > > I couldn’t leave you hanging. 😉 … Many thanks! 😁 ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2023, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ohio-issue-watch-2023/992753/56 "2023-11-08T15:59:38Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > A legal system that, in order to be right, enables tyrannical control over bodies is a shit legal system. So I guess you don’t think individual states should have been allowed to vote as to whether they wanted to keep slavery legal? I mean, that’s just unreasonable. /s ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2023, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ohio-issue-watch-2023/992753/57 "2023-11-08T16:06:45Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Give it a funny-sounding name that sounds like how you cross a river. Like which word? I can’t decide between two. It’s a competition … row v wade … how should that be decided? ---
**Author:** ![Tatterdemalion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/43a26b/32.png) [@Tatterdemalion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tatterdemalion)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2023, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ohio-issue-watch-2023/992753/58 "2023-11-08T18:45:50Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > Like which word? I can’t decide between two. It’s a competition … row v wade … how should that be decided? We also surf, who also stand and wade. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Winston\_OBoogie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.winston_oboogie/32/2945_2.png) [@Dr.Winston\_OBoogie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Winston_OBoogie)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2023, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ohio-issue-watch-2023/992753/59 "2023-11-08T18:49:24Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > “Ohio liberals account for 35% of voters in Tuesday’s preliminary exit poll results, up from 20% in the 2022 midterms and 21% in the 2020 presidential election. If that holds, it’ll be a record high turnout among liberals in Ohio exit polls dating back to 1984.” > > Something to be said for getting out and voting, instead of just bitching and moaning. > > Ohio a red state? Not so fast. 35% of voters were liberal; if we assume a liberal/conservative dichotomy, that means 65% of voters were conservative; that’s pretty damned red! > [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > > [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > > > The decision was egregiously wrong on Day One. > > The decision returned autonomy to women on Day One. A legal system that, in order to be right, enables tyrannical control over bodies is a shit legal system. I absolutely agree on an individual’s right for bodily autonomy. That being said, even Ruth Bader Ginsburg said that the Roe decision was poorly written. The right to choose an abortion may be the right thing for the nation, but ruling it on a “privacy” principle from the 14th amendment was a stretch. We had how many decades to legislate and enshrine the Roe decision; why didn’t we? ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2023, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ohio-issue-watch-2023/992753/60 "2023-11-08T18:55:43Z")
> [@Dr.Winston\_OBoogie](#): > > The right to choose an abortion may be the right thing for the nation, but ruling it on a “privacy” principle from the 14th amendment was a stretch. I don’t give a shit. It would have been overturned by the current SCOTUS regardless of how it was decided. > [@Dr.Winston\_OBoogie](#): > > We had how many decades to legislate and enshrine the Roe decision; why didn’t we? Because there was no need to do so given the Roe decision. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ohio-issue-watch-2023/992753.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ohio-issue-watch-2023/992753.md?page=4)