I said that it’s equivalent to claiming that because the parents say they do it out of “love” it’s okay and the right thing.
It’s not about what the parents are saying, it what’s objective evidence shows they are doing - and what they are doing (or failing to do) is abuse.
Immediate harm was proven at the hospital visit one year ago. The kid is *too fat to breathe. *
I’m astounded that anyone would advocate leaving this kid in the home where the neglect occurred, and in the home where an educated woman failed to keep her child safe and healthy, and failed to prevent social services from placing her child into foster care. I’m astounded that anyone decrying CPS’ decision wouldn’t feel the need to reach out once this 8 year old kid
a) Grew too fat to play with the other kids
b) Grew too fat to complete the required physical fitness tests
c) Risked suffering a breathing/heart emergency or stroke during physical activity
d) Began audibly wheezing while sitting at his desk
e) Was noticeably winded after struggling up a flight of steps
f) Fell asleep his desk due to apnea interrupted sleep
g) Grew too fat to fit in an elementary sized desk
h) Was mercilessly teased, shunned, or even simply ignored by healthier kids
How bad would it have to be before you called CPS, the school nurse, or at the very minimum: engaged the mother in a conversation in an attempt to determine if she was doing anything at all to keep this kid alive? He’s 8. He doesn’t have a job or drive, and does not have the ability to acquire the calories he is consuming without assistance from an adult. He’s 8. He lacks the emotional development necessary to recognize an addiction to food. He’s 8, and likely can’t even reach the highest shelves in the freezer or cabinets. He’s 8, and too fat to walk to a fast food restaurant and beg for food. He’s 8, too young to prepare a meal. He’s 8, too young to grasp the consequences of a fatty liver, compromised pulmonary function, or the crippling social stigma of morbid obesity. Who in the world would observe this kid trying to interact with his environment, then shrug and say “eh, he’ll be alright” and walk away.
There is an active thread in another forum full of outraged Dopers who suspect (no proof!) a child is being sexually abused. But there are Dopers here outraged that this child who is obviously suffering illness due to neglect, and who has been deemed by medical, social work, and judicial professionals to be living in an unsafe environment after one year of supervised intervention has been removed from a harmful environment. I get that those who disagree will continue to disagree, and because of this argument will likely cling tighter to their belief that CPS crossed a line. But why the difference in reaction to neglect? This neglect is evident and preventable, and resources abound for an educated woman to seek help with reversing the damage she has caused.
Well, except, of course, that no one here is “… claiming that because the parents say they do it out of “love” it’s okay and the right thing”. Or even implying it.
If anyone is, please direct me to their post.
You are once again overstating the case.
Troppus, I don’t know if you care, but I agree with you. I consider this to be clear abuse as well, and hope they can eventually (sooner rather than later, one would hope) find a foster family who can get this kid on the right path.
Actually, there is, and controlling it by limiting access to food can be pretty challenging in some cases. Not necessarily applicable to this case (in fact, probably not), but not something to totally neglect, either.
Can this child breathe unassisted, without the aid of a machine, while sleeping? Can his involutary muscles do the job of keeping him alive during an extended period of inactivity without electric-powered intervention?
Well, that is interesting, and something I did not know. But again, I think the whole topic of actual disease states that result in massive weight gain or loss is basically irrelevant here.
Opal, there was a fairly recent thread that asked whether or not Dopers overweight as children held their parents responsible? Was that yours, and if not, can you help me find it?
Sleep apnea can be very serious, but lots of people have it and survive without medical intervention.
The main signs and symptoms are fatigue and lack of alertness, not dropping dead.
Then you aren’t reading and comprehending the posts in this thread. Prader-Willi was already mentioned 5 times, and **SaintCad **generously described the challenges of managing food addiction in a child. And SaintCad did not stop at describing the treatment plan, but also provided a trustworthy counter from the POV of the parent of an obese child.
It wasn’t mine. FWIW I became overweight after the birth of my son, and was so for 7 or 8 years. For that I don’t blame my upbringing. Had I been raised obese, I may well blame my mom for that.
Huh? Where’s the evidence that the kid under discussion has Prader-Willi?
Ah, sorry, can’t remember how long ago or who started it. Thanks for responding.
Would you wish this illness upon an eight year old kid? This preventable illness which prevents the child from uninterrupted sleep and results in fatigue and a lack of alertness? Would you wish this preventable illness on an eight year old kid who may or may not be dependent on electricity in order to rest? Do you suppose that his quality of life is negatively affected by the presence of this breathing obstruction?
Would you prevent this preventable illness in order to for your kid’s quality of life to roughly equal that of his peers?
The evidence is that you haven’t read the thread, or you would have already heard of Prader-Willi.
Look, you are constantly doing this and it makes any sort of worthwhile debate difficult.
(1) You make an absurdly exaggerated claim:
(2) When called on it and countered with facts (in this case, that sleep apnea, while serious, is hardly the same thing as being unable to breathe without assistance) you shift to a mass of insulting rhetorical questions implying that puncturing your exaggeration is equivalent to not caring:
The answer, of course, is “no”. I would not wish it on anyone. That is not the same thing as accepting overwrought exaggerations of its severity at face value.
In short, you care nothing about the debate, but wish to score points with an ad hom.
I understand that. It’s all you have got.
Well, we’re even, because I fail to see how you equate what was happening in this child’s natural home as love, I fail to see how sleep apnea in a morbidly obese eight year old child is no big deal, and I fail to see how you justify overlooking previous discussions of eating disorders and the input of an actual parent of an obese child.
As for overwrought exaggerations, will this rather mild comparison work for you? Poison ivy rash rarely if ever kills a child, but is guaranteed to make them uncomfortable. Should a parent remove poison ivy from a playground frequented by a child? Or should the parent just shrug and say “people have poison ivy rashes and survive without medical intervention”. And yes, I suspect you will answer “Remove the poison ivy” because the answer is a no-brainer. Well, to me, so is “feed the kid less, educate him about nutrition and do everything you can to prevent obesity-related illness from negatively affecting his quality of life, and act with haste if social services is threatening to remove him from his home if his health doesn’t show improvement over the course of one year.”