# Ohio's anti-trans brigade continues **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [November 27, 2024, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ohios-anti-trans-brigade-continues/1010861 "2024-11-27T18:51:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Zoobi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/13edae/32.png) [@Zoobi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoobi)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2024, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ohios-anti-trans-brigade-continues/1010861/81 "2024-12-01T02:33:51Z")
You seem to be of the opinion that this election didn’t have high stakes attached to it. Was that your opinion all along, that the difference between Harris and Trump wasn’t that important when it comes to LGBTQ issues? ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2024, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ohios-anti-trans-brigade-continues/1010861/82 "2024-12-01T02:56:40Z")
Not at all. This was a high stakes election and Trump is going to make a lot of stupid decisions over the next four years that are going to hurt people I care about. My belief is that Trump is going to be unable to make good on most of the things he’s actually promised to do, because he’s the same person he was 8 years ago - vain, egotistical, mercurial, and lazy. There are countless Constitutional, bureaucratic, and institutional hurdles in his way which he isn’t smart enough to navigate around, and anyone smart enough to do so won’t last long in his admin because they’ll either quit when he demands that they do the impossible or he’ll fire them because they said or did something that annoyed him in the heat of the moment. Whenever he encounters a problem that he can’t solve by yelling at it or firing people, the laziness will kick in and he’ll either quietly abandon it or adopt some half-assed fig leaf measure that allows him to proclaim victory anyway, much like how he went from calling Kim Jong-Un “Little Rocket Man” and threatening him with “fire and fury the world has never seen” to visiting North Korea and proclaiming that he had prevented World War III, or how he went from “LOCK HER UP” to bragging that he protected Hillary Clinton and kept her out of jail. ---
**Author:** ![Zoobi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/13edae/32.png) [@Zoobi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoobi)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2024, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ohios-anti-trans-brigade-continues/1010861/83 "2024-12-01T03:29:11Z")
I think you are whistling past the graveyard. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2024, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ohios-anti-trans-brigade-continues/1010861/84 "2024-12-01T03:32:21Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > There are countless Constitutional, bureaucratic, and institutional hurdles in his way which he isn’t smart enough to navigate around, and anyone smart enough to do so won’t last long in his admin because they’ll either quit when he demands that they do the impossible or he’ll fire them because they said or did something that annoyed him in the heat of the moment. Expcept they won’t _need_ to get around those “hurdles”, because they will _be_ those “hurdles” and just let it happen. Or Trump and company will simply ignore them, the law means nothing to them. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2024, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ohios-anti-trans-brigade-continues/1010861/85 "2024-12-01T03:37:54Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Or Trump and company will simply ignore them, the law means nothing to them. In that case they’ll lose by default when the ACLU sues them. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2024, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ohios-anti-trans-brigade-continues/1010861/86 "2024-12-01T03:55:47Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > In that case they’ll lose by default when the ACLU sues them. And a Trump judge just says “ACLU loses”, possibly openly laughing at the idea that the law _actually matters._ ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2024, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ohios-anti-trans-brigade-continues/1010861/87 "2024-12-01T03:57:17Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > 10th amendment. There is no Constitutional basis for a federal law on how states recognize marriages. Remind me again how Obergefell worked to make marriage legal in all 50 states, despite state laws against it. Remind me again how Roe made abortion legal in all 50 states with state laws against it. Remind me again how Loving made interracial marriage legal in all 50 states despite state laws against it. Remind me again how Brown vs. Board of Education made segregated schools illegal despite state laws mandating them. If the Supreme Court can rule one way, it can rule the other. And precedent is meaningless to this court. Thomas has already indicated he wants to review many of these decisions. The Heritage Foundation or whatever right advocacy group will oblige with lawsuits. Do you think the Trump Justice Department will do anything to enforce civil rights? The SC is already whittling away. You think the worst cannot happen. We’ve already seen an insurrection interrupt Congress certifying an election, and the chief Insurrectionist is off Scott-free and back in power. And he’s pledged pardons. Trump is picking people to lead the country that are all on board with punishing his enemies. The Justice Department under a Trump lacky going after the people that wronged him. An actually weaponized FBI under Kash Patel? I hope Trump’s laziness and incompetence save the day, because the people he’s picking to run the show won’t be resisting his orders and plans, won’t be telling him his plans are illegal or even unconstitutional. They will be implementing, not obstructing. > [@Smapti](#): > > In that case they’ll lose by default when the ACLU sues them. Because the Supreme Court is ready to defend gay marriage, trans equality, DACA, Haitian immigrants on emergency permits, immigration laws requiring asylum case court reviews, women’s right to birth control, and on and on. The right has been stacking the courts for decades - not just the SC, but lower courts. These are judges with an agenda, trained in alternate ways to view the law to get the results they want. And Trump put three on the SC, along with two others already there. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2024, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ohios-anti-trans-brigade-continues/1010861/88 "2024-12-01T04:07:56Z")
> [@Irishman](#): > > Because the Supreme Court is ready to defend gay marriage, trans equality, DACA, Haitian immigrants on emergency permits, immigration laws requiring asylum case court reviews, women’s right to birth control, and on and on. > > The right has been stacking the courts for decades - not just the SC, but lower courts. These are judges with an agenda, trained in alternate ways to view the law to get the results they want. And Trump put three on the SC, along with two others already there. And that’s why Trump’s term ends in six weeks, because the Supreme Court threw out the results of the 2020 election and declared him the winner. Right? > [@Irishman](#): > > If the Supreme Court can rule one way, it can rule the other. The Supreme Court CANNOT rule to make any of those things illegal in all 50 states. Not even in MAGA’s wildest dreams do they think they’re going to achieve anything beyond “sending it back to the states”. > [@Irishman](#): > > And he’s pledged pardons. And you BELIEVE him? ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2024, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ohios-anti-trans-brigade-continues/1010861/89 "2024-12-01T04:21:10Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > The cisgender women need to compete against MTF athletes. Do they really, though? How many times has this happened in the past ten years? This boogeyman needs to be put down. ---
**Author:** ![Guest-starring\_Id](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guest-starring_id/32/21736_2.png) [@Guest-starring\_Id](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guest-starring_Id)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2024, 4:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ohios-anti-trans-brigade-continues/1010861/90 "2024-12-01T04:56:37Z")
> [@Irishman](#): > > And he’s pledged pardons. > [@Smapti](#): > > And you BELIEVE him? I’m just crossing fingers he’ll regard-then-ignore the J-6’ers like he did with all those loser dead soldiers. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2024, 5:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ohios-anti-trans-brigade-continues/1010861/91 "2024-12-01T05:26:56Z")
> [@Irishman](#): > > Remind me again how Roe made abortion legal in all 50 states with state laws against it. Abortion-on-demand was never a Federal law nor has abortion been rendered illegal. The decision in RvW was based on privacy and did not directly address the issue of human life. Even liberal lawyers understood it was a house of cards. The court tempered it’s decision based on the length of gestation so the groundwork has already been laid for a new and binding abortion law once the various State laws are challenged. ---
**Author:** ![MulderMuffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldermuffin/32/2862_2.png) [@MulderMuffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MulderMuffin)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2024, 5:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ohios-anti-trans-brigade-continues/1010861/92 "2024-12-01T05:30:04Z")
> [@crowmanyclouds](#): > > And maybe if the general public doesn’t want to be forced to say “ma’am” they should just stop addressing people with an assumption of their gender? Super difficult in the South. Anyone older than you is ALWAYS Miss or Mr. FirstName or Miz or Mr. LastName. And everyone is addressed as ma’am or sir regardless of age or station many multiple times in every conversation. It’s ingrained from birth. I could no more answer a question with a simple yes or no (always yes ma’am or no sir) than i could flash a nun during mass. Yes, I’ve gotten it wrong a time or three. I apologize when corrected and move forward with their preferred form of address. Only once has someone snapped at me for “assuming their gender” and all I can say is “bless their heart, they must be having a real bad day”. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2024, 5:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ohios-anti-trans-brigade-continues/1010861/93 "2024-12-01T05:51:31Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > The court tempered it’s decision based on the length of gestation so the groundwork has already been laid for a new and binding abortion law once the various State laws are challenged. Oh, please, we are _blatantly_ headed for an era where it will not only be made illegal, but enforced in a draconian fashion with an eye to creating as much terror, suffering and death among women as possible. Women are already being outright denied medical care and imprisoned for miscarriages. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2024, 6:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ohios-anti-trans-brigade-continues/1010861/94 "2024-12-01T06:09:16Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Oh, please, we are _blatantly_ headed for an era where it will not only be made illegal, but enforced in a draconian fashion with an eye to creating as much terror, suffering and death among women as possible. Women are already being outright denied medical care and imprisoned for miscarriages. Who has been imprisoned for a miscarriage? ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2024, 6:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ohios-anti-trans-brigade-continues/1010861/95 "2024-12-01T06:35:01Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Who has been imprisoned for a miscarriage? [Multiple women](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-59214544) across the nation, and the world for that matter. It’s a tactic of persecution the Right has been increasingly using for years, now. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2024, 7:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ohios-anti-trans-brigade-continues/1010861/96 "2024-12-01T07:03:34Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > [Multiple women](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-59214544) across the nation, and the world for that matter. It’s a tactic of persecution the Right has been increasingly using for years, now. The person in the cite you posted was convicted of poisoning her unborn child because of meth-amphetamine use. This occurred in 2020 and it has always been a crime to kill an unborn child. Per your own cite there were some 1600 cases involving the death of an unborn child since 1973. What has changed in Roe V Wade is that privacy was not a legitimate consideration for abortion when it involved killing a child. That pushed abortion laws back onto the states which makes it a hodge podge of law. From there it will be certainly be challenged and land back at the Supreme Court for a definition of human life. Trump never espoused outlawing abortion nor will he have influence on how it is argued in court. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2024, 8:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ohios-anti-trans-brigade-continues/1010861/97 "2024-12-01T08:55:04Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > The person in the cite you posted was convicted of poisoning her unborn child because of meth-amphetamine use. This occurred in 2020 and it has always been a crime to kill an unborn child. Per your own cite there were some 1600 cases involving the death of an unborn child since 1973. One person among many, and claiming the woman did something to “hurt the fetus” is one of their standard excuses. None of your excuses make it anything other than a deliberate persecution of women. Tormenting and killing women _is_ the point. ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2024, 1:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ohios-anti-trans-brigade-continues/1010861/98 "2024-12-01T13:19:04Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Abortion-on-demand was never a Federal law nor has abortion been rendered illegal. Roe made abortion legal up to “viability” and afterwards for medical necessity. It wasn’t a law code law, it was a law by court decision. Abortion has yet to be made illegal at the federal level. It is essentially illegal in many states by draconian state laws. Some of those state laws were enacted before Dobbs, but we’re not enforceable because of Roe. That is the federal government overruling state law, if not by legal code, by de facto situation. Yes, it was a house of cards, not being statutory. But the legal system in this country does recognize precedent as a strong guide, at least before this court decided to throw it out - not just Dobbs, but other cases as well. > [@Magiver](#): > > The court tempered it’s decision based on the length of gestation so the groundwork has already been laid for a new and binding abortion law once the various State laws are challenged. The groundwork is laid for federal law protecting abortion, but the incoming Congress won’t pursue it and will shut down Democrat attempts to introduce it. The groundwork is also laid for a federal law to restrict abortion to 6 weeks and criminalize doctors who giver medical care to failing pregnancies. The christo-fascists will push for it. Will Congress take it up? > [@Magiver](#): > > Who has been imprisoned for a miscarriage? > **[Losing a pregnancy could land you in jail in post-Roe America](https://www.npr.org/2022/07/03/1109015302/abortion-prosecuting-pregnancy-loss)** > > Now that the Supreme Court has struck down Roe v. Wade, experts warn that prosecutions will increase for miscarriages, stillbirths and self-induced abortions. > [@](#): > > In 2013, NAPW partnered with Fordham University to track the arrests and prosecutions of pregnancies. They found just [over 400 cases](https://www.nationaladvocatesforpregnantwomen.org/new-study-reveals-the-impact-of-post-roe-v-wade-and-pro-life-measures/) where pregnancy, including pregnancy loss, was used in a criminal investigation or prosecution from the time _Roe v. Wade_ was decided in 1973 until 2005. But from 2006-2020, that number nearly quadrupled. While this research is ongoing, Sussman suspects 200-300 cases in this range will involve pregnancy loss. > > There is one striking detail that stands out for legal experts: States are using laws to target pregnant people that were originally used to protect them. > > [At least 38 states](https://www.ncsl.org/research/health/fetal-homicide-state-laws.aspx) have laws that makes it a crime to harm a fetus, according to the National Conference of State Legislatures. Legal experts say that these laws were originally intended to stop violence against pregnant people. > > These so-called “fetal harm” laws enhance penalties for crimes against a pregnant person. By treating a fetus as a separate crime victim, these laws recognize crimes against pregnant people as two separate crimes. But, in practice, they have been used to investigate and prosecute different forms of pregnancy loss, including miscarriages, stillbirths and self-induced abortions. > [@](#): > > “There is no biological basis for that opinion, specifically with methamphetamine,” says Dr. Harvey Kliman, the director of the Reproductive and Placental Research Unit at Yale School of Medicine. > > Kliman attributes prosecutions of pregnancy outcomes based on drug use to a misunderstanding about pregnancy. > > “One has to have something called biological plausibility,” he says. “And methamphetamine has no biological pathway to lead to the end of a pregnancy. It just doesn’t.” > [@](#): > > Still, people using illicit drugs are not the only ones at risk of criminal charges for pregnancy outcomes. Sussman adds that she has worked with people who have been prosecuted for prescription medication such as legal medical marijuana, painkillers for preexisting conditions, or Adderall, which is medication commonly used to treat ADHD. > > “We’ve had cases where a woman has fallen down a flight of stairs while light-headed during pregnancy and charged with attempted feticide because they suspected she did it on purpose,” Sussman adds. > [@](#): > > Pierre points to the case of [Marshae Jones](https://www.npr.org/2019/07/03/738531267/charge-against-woman-indicted-in-death-of-her-own-fetus-has-been-dropped), an Alabama woman who was indicted for manslaughter in 2019 after being shot in the stomach while five months pregnant. Police said Jones started the fight that led to the shooting and failed to remove herself from harm’s way. But the district attorney later dropped the charge after a groundswell of national support. > [@](#): > > “Without _Roe_ and [_Casey_](https://www.npr.org/2022/05/06/1096885897/roe-established-abortion-rights-20-years-later-casey-paved-the-way-for-restricti)pushing back the line on fetal person, we are about to see the full re-imagination of criminal and civil codes in this country in the states that have already redefined fetuses and fertilized eggs and embryos as children or as human beings,” Sussman says. > [@Magiver](#): > > Trump never espoused outlawing abortion nor will he have influence on how it is argued in court. Trump ran on getting rid of Roe, and he appointed three SC Justices who did just that. He famously said on TV that “there has to be some form of punishment for the mother”. Right now, he claims he wants to leave it to the states. But what if Congress doesn’t agree? What if the MAGA republicans push a bill through that makes abortion illegal? Will he veto it, or call it the will of the people and take credit for it and sign it? ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2024, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ohios-anti-trans-brigade-continues/1010861/99 "2024-12-01T14:00:14Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > I swear this board trusts Trump to keep his promises more than the people who voted for him do. To repeat: > [@Gyrate](#): > > IT’S. NOT. JUST. TRUMP. Stop ignoring this. The right have made a lot of progress toward removing obstacles to their agenda, particularly after they had a dry run in January 2021 to see where those obstacles were. But hey, as long as the absolute worst case scenario doesn’t happen you can declare that you were right. Fuck all the people whose lives _were_ ruined, amirite? ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2024, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ohios-anti-trans-brigade-continues/1010861/100 "2024-12-02T03:01:39Z")
> [@Irishman](#): > > “One has to have something called biological plausibility,” he says. “And methamphetamine has no biological pathway to lead to the end of a pregnancy. It just doesn’t.” [Death by meth.](https://nida.nih.gov/research-topics/trends-statistics/overdose-death-rates) Drug overdose deaths involving psychostimulants with abuse potential (primarily methamphetamine) rose from 5,716 in 2015 to **34,022 deaths in 2022**. The number of deaths involving psychostimulants has increased steadily since 2014 regardless of opioid involvement (Source: CDC WONDER) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ohios-anti-trans-brigade-continues/1010861.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ohios-anti-trans-brigade-continues/1010861.md?page=6)