# Oil Change: Does 3 months trump 3000 miles? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [August 19, 2003, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oil-change-does-3-months-trump-3000-miles/196273 "2003-08-19T20:19:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![commasense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/commasense/32/3017_2.png) [@commasense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/commasense)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2003, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oil-change-does-3-months-trump-3000-miles/196273/21 "2003-08-20T14:47:58Z")
Not trying to pick a fight, **Gary T** , but the columnist in your first cite is responding to a question about a Ford Explorer with a comment about Honda’s practices, without specifying if Honda recommends that for all its cars. In your second cite, one of the posters takes my point of view (rather persuasively, I thought). The TSB is for the S2000, which may very well require special treatment, since its engine produces more horsepower per cc than any other production engine in the world. Do you know if Honda makes the same recommendation for all its cars? In any case, break-in oil is rare at best these days. ---
**Author:** ![olefin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/d78d45/32.png) [@olefin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/olefin)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2003, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oil-change-does-3-months-trump-3000-miles/196273/22 "2003-08-20T16:09:19Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by commasense \* > **I’m not trying to pick on \*\* olefin** , but I constantly hear this statement from people to justify their oil change intervals, whatever they are. > > The implication that the lack of engine problems is directly related to following the oil change recommendations is invalid. > > \*\* I was only trying to answer the persons question… tell the person what worked for me so they would know 3000 mile oil changes are unnecessary. I don’t doubt you could go longer between oil changes but **I’m not in the research business!** By much research automotive manufactures set the limits that they feel will help the engine give good service. They also set the oil changes at as long as they feel safe with. If the manufacture thought it was safe to go 20,000 miles between oil changes they would surely recommend it. **The longer service would be a great sales point.** When I worked I was in charge of several plants that had very large combustion engines, gas fired turbines, numerous large compressors and other large rotating equipment. Our company had a very capable engineering staff but when it came to lubrication we always followed the equipment manufactures recommendation for oil and service. ---
**Author:** ![olefin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/d78d45/32.png) [@olefin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/olefin)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2003, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oil-change-does-3-months-trump-3000-miles/196273/23 "2003-08-20T16:46:49Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by commasense \* > \*\* > The question is, what is the upper limit for oil changes beyond which engine damage is more likely to occur? Like **olefin** I think it’s longer than 3,000 miles for most modern cars. A lot longer. > \*\* “A lot longer”… Hmmm b]commasense\*\* that could mean anything. You give **nothing** to back up your statement. Just use the manufactures recommendation backed up with my 50 years of experience. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![handy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b5a626/32.png) [@handy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/handy)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2003, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oil-change-does-3-months-trump-3000-miles/196273/24 "2003-08-20T16:53:48Z")
Some new cars require more frequent changes early in to get rid of any metal particles there may be. ---
**Author:** ![olefin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/d78d45/32.png) [@olefin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/olefin)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2003, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oil-change-does-3-months-trump-3000-miles/196273/25 "2003-08-20T18:16:54Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by handy \* > \*\*Some new cars require more frequent changes early in to get rid of any metal particles there may be. \*\* May I ask what cars? ---
**Author:** ![Doomtrain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/0ea827/32.png) [@Doomtrain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doomtrain)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2003, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oil-change-does-3-months-trump-3000-miles/196273/26 "2003-08-20T23:13:11Z")
I do whatever the manual/dealer combo suggests (Yes, I take it to the dealership for everything, because my dealer is apparently the only decent dealer on earth). So I take it in at 5000, usually, but sometimes the mechanic suggests bringing it back at 3000, so then I do that. ---
**Author:** ![handy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b5a626/32.png) [@handy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/handy)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2003, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oil-change-does-3-months-trump-3000-miles/196273/27 "2003-08-21T14:54:30Z")
olefin, that’s from some car manuals I have read. It’s really just basic logic too. I think one engine manual stated to change it at 500 miles, but that was a VW bug engine that I put in myself. I don’t know if it’s the same for the OP. Quaker state says every 3000 miles, but Im sure they are biased so people buy more oil (other oil facts areat this url): [http://www.quakerstate.com/pages/carcare/whattoknow.asp#changeoil](http://www.quakerstate.com/pages/carcare/whattoknow.asp#changeoil) ---
**Author:** ![Rayne\_Man](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/df705f/32.png) [@Rayne\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rayne_Man)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2003, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oil-change-does-3-months-trump-3000-miles/196273/28 "2003-08-21T15:10:26Z")
Whenevr this topic of oil changes pops up on this board I am baffeled at why cars in the USA seem to require such frequent oil changes. Most European and Japanese cars sold here in the UK have much longer oil change intervals . My Peugeot 307 HDI diesel has reommended intervals of 12,000 miles and the petrol version is something like 18-20,000. Could it be that the engines in most US cars are of such old design that they still require such low interval oil changes? ---
**Author:** ![commasense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/commasense/32/3017_2.png) [@commasense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/commasense)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2003, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oil-change-does-3-months-trump-3000-miles/196273/29 "2003-08-21T18:34:25Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Rayne Man \* > \*\*Whenever this topic of oil changes pops up on this board I am baffled at why cars in the USA seem to require such frequent oil changes. Most European and Japanese cars sold here in the UK have much longer oil change intervals . My Peugeot 307 HDI diesel has recommended intervals of 12,000 miles and the petrol version is something like 18-20,000. Could it be that the engines in most US cars are of such old design that they still require such low interval oil changes? \*\* No, the designs of US engines are just as new, advanced, and precision engineered as European and Japanese cars. I think the source of this idea is the same as most firmly held but false beliefs: it’s what our fathers told us. In the 1940s, 1950s, and 1960s, engines weren’t as precisely manufactured as they are today, and probably did need their oil changed every 3,000 miles. Our fathers learned this from their fathers and passed it on to us. And so the vast majority of Americans take it as gospel, and as several others have pointed out, the oil companies have no reason to disabuse us of the notion. But with today’s engine technology (to say nothing of synthetic oil), it’s clear that 3,000 mile changes are overkill. Most manufacturers recommend 5,000 miles or more, as others have pointed out. And those intervals are conservative, because there is no harm in changing oil more often than necessary (except in terms of waste and the possible environmental damage of improper disposal). But anyone who was told by his father at age 10 that you should change your oil every 3,000 miles will go to the grave insisting that it is an indisputable truth. I’ve just remembered that Consumer Reports did a study of oil change intervals with New York taxis a few years ago, and IIRC, they said that longer intervals were fine. I forget how long now, and I don’t have time to look it up. I’ll try to find it and get back. Or maybe someone else has it at hand. ---
**Author:** ![olefin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/d78d45/32.png) [@olefin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/olefin)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2003, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oil-change-does-3-months-trump-3000-miles/196273/30 "2003-08-21T18:38:18Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by handy \* > \*\*olefin, that’s from some car manuals I have read. It’s really just basic logic too. I think one engine manual stated to change it at 500 miles, but that was a VW bug engine that I put in myself. I don’t know if it’s the same for the OP. > > Quaker state says every 3000 miles, but Im sure they are biased so people buy more oil\*\* I have owned several **new cars** … none in the last 25 years that recommended changing the oil at less than 5000 miles. Quaker State is in the oil business… they would love for everyone to change at 500 miles! ---
**Author:** ![commasense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/commasense/32/3017_2.png) [@commasense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/commasense)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2003, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oil-change-does-3-months-trump-3000-miles/196273/31 "2003-08-25T02:14:58Z")
Found the Consumer Reports [cite](http://www.xs11.com/stories/croil96.shtml) They outfitted a fleet of NYC cabs with identical rebuilt engines, drove them for 22 months, 4.5 million miles, and compared those given 3,000 mile oil changes with those getting 6,000 mile changes. They examined the engined with precision instruments for wear and damage. > [@](#): > > The bottom line. Modern motor oils needn’t be changed as often as oils did years ago. More frequent oil changes won’t hurt your car, but you could be spending money unnecessarily and adding to the nation’s energy and oil-disposal problems. > > Even in the severe driving conditions that a New York City taxi endures, we noted no benefit from changing the oil every 3,000 miles rather than every 6,000. If your driving falls into the “normal” service category, changing the oil every 7,500 miles (or at the automaker’s suggested intervals) should certainly provide adequate protection. (We recommend changing the oil filter with each oil change.) > > We don’t recommend leaving any oil, synthetic or regular, in an engine for 12,000 miles, because accumulating contaminants - solids, acids, fuel, and water - could eventually harm the engine. What’s more, stretching the oil-change interval may void the warranty on most new cars. This is all the research I need. ---
**Author:** ![handy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b5a626/32.png) [@handy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/handy)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2003, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oil-change-does-3-months-trump-3000-miles/196273/32 "2003-08-25T15:00:48Z")
I might have missed it but SparrowHawk hasn’t come back with the type of car yet. Gotta laught cause one doper went 17,000 miles without a change. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_T](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Gary\_T](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_T)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2003, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oil-change-does-3-months-trump-3000-miles/196273/33 "2003-08-25T15:39:05Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by handy \* > **I might have missed it but SparrowHawk hasn’t come back with the type of car yet.** From SparrowHawk’s second post: “It’s a Subaru Impreza.” > [@](#): > > **Gotta laught cause one doper went 17,000 miles without a change.** Huh? Are you saying this illustrates that it’s silly to change oil at 3,000 miles? That may be, but it’s generally stupid to go 17,000. Might not be laughable when that engine craps out at half its typical mileage. ---
**Author:** ![commasense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/commasense/32/3017_2.png) [@commasense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/commasense)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2003, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oil-change-does-3-months-trump-3000-miles/196273/34 "2003-08-25T15:50:21Z")
I have a friend (a decidedly ivory-tower, non-pragmatic type) who didn’t understand why you should have to change your oil at all, thought it was all a conspiracy among the oil and car companies, and so never changed the oil in his Toyota sedan. I don’t know how far he went, perhaps 50,000 or 75,000 miles without a change. (He topped it up if it was low.) He destroyed the engine, of course. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oil-change-does-3-months-trump-3000-miles/196273.md?page=1)