# Oil Hits $55/Barrel: Time To Trade In That SUV? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 5, 2005, 9:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oil-hits-55-barrel-time-to-trade-in-that-suv/293067 "2005-03-05T09:26:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![threemae](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/5f9b8f/32.png) [@threemae](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/threemae)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2005, 4:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oil-hits-55-barrel-time-to-trade-in-that-suv/293067/121 "2005-03-11T04:13:32Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > Is this your way of retracting your erroneous statement? No. As a whole, SUV’s are still more dangerous. Hence, a safety conscious consumer, particularly one with a consciounsce, will choose to buy a passenger car, all other things being equal. Considering that you had three statements to choose from and you used the one that applied to the smallest section of the data, maybe the “cherry picking” accusation has turned out to be rather accurate. From here: [http://www.autofieldguide.com/columns/0700anum.html](http://www.autofieldguide.com/columns/0700anum.html) The most popular SUV in the US is the Ford Explorer with a base curb weight of around 4300-4500 pounds is on the light side of the area between medium and large SUV’s. The most popular passenger car is the MS2000 series from GM including both the Century, Regal, GP, and Intrigue has a curb weight of close to 3300-3500 pounds is on the heavy side between medium and large passenger cars. Either way, a typical car is safer than a typical SUV. Considering that you pose more of a risk in the SUV, I still don’t see how one can make a safety argument for an SUV. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2005, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oil-hits-55-barrel-time-to-trade-in-that-suv/293067/122 "2005-03-11T13:32:28Z")
> [@](#): > > Actually, the 2004 Prius has an electrical compressor and I didn’t really find the a/c caused a significant drop in gas mileage (although admittedly it doesn’t get as strong a workout here in Rochester as it would if I lived in hotter climes). **jshore** how is the Prius’s A/C? Does it’s performance compare to a standard’s car’s A/C? Also while we’re at it, How does the Prius do in the snow, I would assume that it would be somewhat better then a conventional car in some respects due to smaller tires. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2005, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oil-hits-55-barrel-time-to-trade-in-that-suv/293067/123 "2005-03-11T13:51:33Z")
> [@](#): > > The reason the Ford Escape hybrid has drawn so much attention is because of that very reason - average people want hybrid efficiency, but they don’t want to drive a strange looking car with sub-par acceleration to get it. Just looked at the Ford site. “Combined horsepower of gasoline engine and electric motor = 155” Maybe the torque of the electric motor would make a difference, but 155hp is nothing for that size of car. My old Pathfinder has about 165, and the lack of power is probably the only thing I don’t like about it. Upon review. The site states that the gas engine is 133hp, and the electric motor is 94. Combined should be 227, more reasonable. Am I missing something here? Could the 155 hp be a mis-print? Anyone know it the Escape Hybrid has a two speed transfer case (low range)? ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2005, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oil-hits-55-barrel-time-to-trade-in-that-suv/293067/124 "2005-03-11T14:10:36Z")
> [@](#): > > Could the 155 hp be a mis-print? I don’t think so, but what you have to realize that an electric motor has a totally different power curve (max at low RPM’s, actually I think max at 0 RPM’s). So adding gas+electric HP is not a good representation, but perhaps it would be better to think of that 155 HP over the complete rpm range, not just a peak. If this is the case 155 HP could be very powerful. (yes I know that it is a peak, but it should be much flatter then a conventional SUV) ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2005, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oil-hits-55-barrel-time-to-trade-in-that-suv/293067/125 "2005-03-11T14:19:58Z")
> [@](#): > > I don’t think so, but what you have to realize that an electric motor has a totally different power curve I realize that. And that electric motors put out a lot of torque. > [@](#): > > If this is the case 155 HP could be very powerful. Or it could be pretty much nothing. I’d have to drive it for sure. Now I’m curious. Anyone own an Escape Hybrid? ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2005, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oil-hits-55-barrel-time-to-trade-in-that-suv/293067/126 "2005-03-11T14:57:07Z")
Ford claims that the hybrid Escape performs roughly the same as the V-6 model with the 200HP engine. Most reviews I’ve read say it’s close to that. I have one of the V-6 Escapes, and the performance is very good. ---
**Author:** ![jshore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b5e925/32.png) [@jshore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jshore)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2005, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oil-hits-55-barrel-time-to-trade-in-that-suv/293067/127 "2005-03-11T16:01:25Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > WOW. A civic hybrid gets 26 in town. That’s terrible. My 2000 Saturn with an automatic gets 33 around town and 36/37 on the highway and I do not drive in the slow lane. Maybe Saturn should slap a hybrid sticker on it. Well, comparing what you get when you drive it to what Consumer Reports gets is comparing apples to oranges. Their city numbers tend to run very low. For example, in regards to their claim for the Prius getting 35 mpg in the city: There is one tank of gas where I have gotten ~35mpg but that was when we had a brutally cold few weeks here in January and, as I noted, my ~15 minute commute is too short to warm up the engine very well. In the summer, I would get ~50-52 mpg on a tank of gas, with it doing a little better in more city-like driving and a little worse on the highway. Strangely enough, the number they reported for highway driving though was actually a few mpg higher than I have tended to get on the highway. (They may be doing it at 55 or 60 mph, whereas my highway driving has been more in the 70-74 mph range.) ---
**Author:** ![jshore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b5e925/32.png) [@jshore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jshore)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2005, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oil-hits-55-barrel-time-to-trade-in-that-suv/293067/128 "2005-03-11T16:08:20Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > **jshore** how is the Prius’s A/C? Does it’s performance compare to a standard’s car’s A/C? Also while we’re at it, How does the Prius do in the snow, I would assume that it would be somewhat better then a conventional car in some respects due to smaller tires. The A/C seems perfectly fine to me…I think it is comparable to a standard car. As for snow, I think the Prius handles pretty well in the snow. It does come standard with traction control, which was new to me and I have trouble figuring out how I like it…It can be a little weird when you step on the accelerator when you’re stopped and the road is very slick and you get very slow response…But I suppose this isn’t necessarily worse than having the wheels making dramatic spinning noises but not moving the car very much. (There is also optional “vehicle stability control” that I did not get.) This year, I decided to just go with the all-season tires it came with. I may get snow tires for it next year, as I had for my Plymouth Colt…I am a big fan of snow tires as I felt it made my Colt able to get through almost anything. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2005, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oil-hits-55-barrel-time-to-trade-in-that-suv/293067/129 "2005-03-11T18:33:41Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > I don’t think so, but what you have to realize that an electric motor has a totally different power curve (max at low RPM’s, actually I think max at 0 RPM’s). So adding gas+electric HP is not a good representation, but perhaps it would be better to think of that 155 HP over the complete rpm range, not just a peak. If this is the case 155 HP could be very powerful. > > (yes I know that it is a peak, but it should be much flatter then a conventional SUV) You’re correct. An electric motor produces all the hp when engaged so it will add a lot to the feel of a 4 or 6 cylinder engine. ---
**Author:** ![threemae](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/5f9b8f/32.png) [@threemae](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/threemae)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2005, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oil-hits-55-barrel-time-to-trade-in-that-suv/293067/130 "2005-03-11T18:40:24Z")
Yeah, the EPA and “Official Testing” numbers are usually really low compared to actual mileage, but what’s important is how they relate to one-another. ---
**Author:** ![jshore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b5e925/32.png) [@jshore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jshore)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2005, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oil-hits-55-barrel-time-to-trade-in-that-suv/293067/131 "2005-03-11T23:27:52Z")
> [@Sam Stone](#): > > I don’t know about the Prius/Camry comparison. The Prius does 0-60 in just under 11 seconds. The Camry with its 157 HP engine does 0-60 in 7.5 seconds. That’s not a small difference - it’s a HUGE difference. The Camry with that engine gets 32/23 city/hwy mileage. Hmmm…Well, I do see a variety of numbers for the Camry’s 0-60 time floating around on the web, including some more in line with what you say. But, sticking to the Consumer Reports as a uniform source for cross-comparison, their overall mileage estimates for the Camry and the Prius are 24 and 44mpg. And, their 0-60 times are 9.7 sec for the Camry (from a full review appearing in their Feb 2005 issue) and 10.5 sec for the Prius (from a full review appearing in their May 2004 issue). Here are the overall MPG and 0-60 times for the other cars that were compared alongside the Prius in the May 2004 issue: Chevy Malibu: 24mpg, 10.1 sec Mitsubishi Galant: 23mpg, 9.1 sec Suzuki Verona: 20mpg, 10.3 sec Dodge Stratus: 21 mpg, 10.4 sec And, here are the overall MPG and 0-60 times for the generally peppier cars that were compared alongside the Camry in the Feb 2005 issue: Nissan Ultima: 23mpg, 8.9 sec Mitsubishi Galant: 20 mpg, 7.2 sec Pontiac G6: 21 mpg, 8.1 sec Note that the vast difference between the two ratings for the Galant is presumably due to the fact that they tested a 2.4-l four cylinder (160hp) version in May 2004 and a 3.8-l V6 (230 hp) in Feb 2005. The numbers for the Camry are based on a 2.4-l four cylinder (160 hp). ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2005, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oil-hits-55-barrel-time-to-trade-in-that-suv/293067/132 "2005-03-12T02:36:46Z")
Jshore: You’re right that it’s hard to know which numbers to interpret - a lot depends on how the vehicle is driven, the transmission in it, how aggressive the testers are, etc. BTW, here’s the production version of that ‘Contractor Special’ concept vehicle I mentioned: [The Chevy Silverado Hybrid](http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Drives/FirstDrives/articleId=104820). Note that it only gets 13% better gas mileage that its non-hybrid counterpart, but the hybrid system retrofits into the current vehicle and will probably be cheaper than a 'full 'hybrid. It also doubles as a 2400 watt generator. The article mentions one application I never thought of - camping. Put a camper on this thing, and you can power whatever you want. Take it to a camp site, and you can power electric heaters, fridges, lights, whatever. Pretty cool. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2005, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oil-hits-55-barrel-time-to-trade-in-that-suv/293067/133 "2005-03-12T16:03:08Z")
It’s not a bad idea. I wonder how many amps you can pull? 2400 watts? It could probably power one circular saw and a small compressor. Something that could run one nail gun. Ehhh. Very, very few job sites don’t have power. But this would be good for those occasions when you need it and don’t have it. And, only need a little bit. I particularly like this in it’s standard features - “Ashtray and cigarette lighter standard” :snerk: > [@](#): > > No longer reserved for tree-hugging vegetarians who drive too slow, the hybrid moniker can now be enjoyed by gun-toting, who-cares-about-gas-prices American pickup truck lovers. I’m really, really starting to hate journalists that have no idea of what they are talking about. This person just insulted everyone. In one sentence. This guy must eat dirt and walk on his hands. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2005, 8:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oil-hits-55-barrel-time-to-trade-in-that-suv/293067/134 "2005-03-13T08:34:33Z")
**Jshore** : Getting back to the Echo/Prius comparison: I just read [this comparison](http://www.caranddriver.com/article.asp?section_id=15&article_id=8427&page_number=1) at Car and Driver. The result: Toyota Echo: 41/42 Hwy/City Toyota Prius: 50/50 Hwy/City Not that much of a difference. The Echo is also $8,000 less than the Prius (although the Prius is nicer, and scored higher overall in the comparo). Btw, the Echo is one of the most popular cars in Canada. ---
**Author:** ![Ale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@Ale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ale)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2005, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oil-hits-55-barrel-time-to-trade-in-that-suv/293067/135 "2005-03-13T14:21:51Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > Ya learn something new every day! (With ‘Ya’ = ‘me’ in this particular instance. :)) I knew jet fuel had to be _somewhere_ in that mix, but kerosene calls to mind (at least to mine) kerosene stoves, kerosene lanterns…kinda nineteenth-century images. Now I know better. Tell me about it, in HSs second year while on the chemistry class the professor asked for examples of kerosene uses, I said “jet planes burn kerosene”; I was almost laughted out of the classroom by the other students AND the professor. I would have loved to have a big clue stick to smite them on their heads. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![chaparralv8](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@chaparralv8](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chaparralv8)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2005, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oil-hits-55-barrel-time-to-trade-in-that-suv/293067/136 "2005-03-13T18:55:41Z")
Or should I say an old one. It’s sort of a low-tech solution to the fuel-economy problem - just make the car as light as possible and a little engine will fling it down the road. 1991 Honda CRX. 50 MPG. ---
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2006, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oil-hits-55-barrel-time-to-trade-in-that-suv/293067/137 "2006-04-21T21:50:29Z")
in Beverly Hills, LA. I wonder if deman for gasoline will actually start to drop…$4.00 gas will really hurt a LOT of people. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2006, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oil-hits-55-barrel-time-to-trade-in-that-suv/293067/138 "2006-04-21T23:05:31Z")
Ralph, We’ve already got an active thread asking [When will (US) gasoline hit $4.00/gallon?](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=367858). Please do not bring back to life threads that are over a year old. If you need to discuss this particular issue, start a new thread and link to this old one (which will soon be closed). [/Moderating] [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oil-hits-55-barrel-time-to-trade-in-that-suv/293067.md?page=6)