# OJ Simpson Murder Trial **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 20, 2015, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oj-simpson-murder-trial/725710 "2015-07-20T18:27:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Moriarty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/moriarty/32/49_2.png) [@Moriarty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moriarty)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2015, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oj-simpson-murder-trial/725710/21 "2015-07-20T21:28:46Z")
> [@TennisMenace](#): > > He was definitely in a fit of rage to kill her the way he did which I’m sure makes you do things you normally wouldn’t do, but to not be aware of what he did seems a bit of a stretch. Agreed. He apparently had a violent [temper](http://www.people.com/people/archive/article/0,,20103372,00.html), and it got the better of him this time. I think that’s why he can [say](http://www.ocregister.com/articles/stuart-529204-simpson-heard.html) he didn’t mean to do it while he remembered clearly what he did. ---
**Author:** ![skdo23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@skdo23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/skdo23)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2015, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oj-simpson-murder-trial/725710/22 "2015-07-20T21:34:39Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#): > > Why would that preclude a civil trial, or collecting on a civil judgment? Technically it wouldn’t. However I do remember that Fred Goldman (the father of one of the victims, and pretty much a household word at the time) saying that he would give up on trying to collect on the civil judgement if OJ admitted to the murders. So, maybe if OJ had pled guilty or been convicted, the Goldman family would have been less motivated to file the lawsuit. ---
**Author:** ![TennisMenace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f05b48/32.png) [@TennisMenace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TennisMenace)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2015, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oj-simpson-murder-trial/725710/23 "2015-07-20T21:44:04Z")
> [@skdo23](#): > > Technically it wouldn’t. However I do remember that Fred Goldman (the father of one of the victims, and pretty much a household word at the time) saying that he would give up on trying to collect on the civil judgement if OJ admitted to the murders. So, maybe if OJ had pled guilty or been convicted, the Goldman family would have been less motivated to file the lawsuit. My wife believes OJ will confess his “sin” before he dies in order to clear his conscience. She feels though when he does confess he will pass away very very soon thereafter. We made a bet, because I do not believe for one minute OJ cares about clearing his guilty conscience. Besides, I think he is aware that most of America except for a few “sisters” believe he did it, so why bother? ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2015, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oj-simpson-murder-trial/725710/24 "2015-07-20T22:04:24Z")
Terrible prosecution, incompetent actually, should have resulted in disbarments. Terrible judging. Incredible defense. I think if I were on that jury I might have made the same decision as the jurors on the basis that the state did not prove it’s case. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2015, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oj-simpson-murder-trial/725710/25 "2015-07-20T22:21:18Z")
> [@TennisMenace](#): > > Martin and others, > > You said it was based on a lack of evidence and lack of credibility. > > How was there a lack of evidence: > > 1. Blood inside ford bronco- both victims blood > 2. Bloody shoe impression on carpet floor > 3. Blood on OJs driveway > 4. Blood in OJs foyer > 5. Blood in his bathroom > 6. Blood drenched glove that matched the glove at the murder scene, found on OJ estate > 7. Deep cut on OJs left fingers. When interviewed 15 hours after murder OJ has no explanation ( came up with an explanation after attorney told him what to say later on) > 8. Shoe imprints at murder scene- The shoes were not just any shoes, but Bruno Magli- very expensive, sold in Bloomingdales where OJ buys his > 9. Size 12 shoe- OJs size > 10. The hat found at murder scene had OJs hair in it > 11. Limo driver arrived at house, no white Ford Bronco there and no OJ for 20 minutes ( does anyone really believe OJs testimony given to explain that?) > 12. The missing bag kato wanted to help carry for OJ that just happens to have the missing clothes OJ was wearing that night that he can’t find. Really?? > 13. The next night OJ asks old friend and retired cop Ron Shipp “how long it took to get DNA results back?”(family refutes) > 14. No alibi given by OJ > > Two hours to dismiss all this evidence and acquitt?? > > Am I getting confused with murder cases, but didn’t OJs lawyers insinuate that a drug crazed one armed man did it? > > I read that both jury selection experts said black women would be the most favorable for acquittal, so how did the prosecution all for 9 of the 12 to be black women? They have challenges, yes? > > Thanks to all so far for allowing me to get this off my chest again. Like I said, whenever I read or hear something about this, it triggers this reaction and a need to fellowship. > > TM The easiest explanation is to go watch the scene in _My Cousin Vinny_ where Joe Pesci describes how he’s going to win. In his words a prosecution’s case is like a house, and you have to build it the right way for it to stand up. The prosecution’s case in the movie (and in the OJ trial) had everything that a house should have, and it looked like a house at first glance. But (and he demonstrates this with a literal house of cards), it’s actually not a house, and a skilled defense attorney will be able to unmask this and collapse the house. That is what Vinny does in the movie, and largely that’s what OJ’s attorneys did. By creating doubt in the jurors mind about two important things: chain of custody, and bias of the police, it put every thing you just listed out into doubt. Let me put it this way, if someone was actually framed by police (and OJ almost certainly **wasn’t** ) pretty much everything you listed could be staged. Is a “framed by police” argument unheard of? Of course not…probably only 2nd or 3rd behind such classics as “I didn’t do it” or “The other guy did it”, but in OJ’s case there were unique circumstances that made such an argument fairly strong, much stronger than it would normally be: 1. Detective purjuring himself on the stand 2. Chain of custody questions successfully raised (and not handled by the prosecution) 3. Giving OJ physical control of evidence in open court, so that he could show the “glove didn’t fit”, thus casting further doubt on all the evidence that “on the surface” was strong 4. The general distrust of police among the black community in LA–something the prosecution probably should’ve recognized was a thing the moment it ended up with a jury of 9 blacks. ---
**Author:** ![Stuffy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f17d59/32.png) [@Stuffy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stuffy)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2015, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oj-simpson-murder-trial/725710/26 "2015-07-20T22:24:51Z")
Terrible prosecution + Mark Furhman. ---
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2015, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oj-simpson-murder-trial/725710/27 "2015-07-21T00:42:05Z")
DNA testing was in its infancy and I heard that jurors were skeptical of this newfangled technology. Plus, they thought the DNA evidence could have been tampered with in the lab. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2015, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oj-simpson-murder-trial/725710/28 "2015-07-21T01:00:33Z")
> [@Leaffan](#): > > DNA testing was in its infancy and I heard that jurors were skeptical of this newfangled technology. Plus, they thought the DNA evidence could have been tampered with in the lab. :smack: I only am familiar with it because I’ve spent time in the area where it happened, but the case of [Fred Zain](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fred_Zain) may be worth looking into. DNA evidence can absolutely be falsified. ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2015, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oj-simpson-murder-trial/725710/29 "2015-07-21T01:04:16Z")
The prosecution should have completely deprecated the DNA evidence as simple _confirmation_ of the physical blood evidence that was everywhere. Blood at the scene, blood in his car, blood in his house, blood on the glove… and oh, yeah, this newfangled stuff is pretty sure it all matches. Not (as I recall) the other way around. But yeah, _Outrage_. Wear your asbestos gloves when you read it. Dumb question, not sure where to find the answer quickly: did the gloves have a cut matching that on Simpson’s hand? ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2015, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oj-simpson-murder-trial/725710/30 "2015-07-21T01:18:28Z")
I think the key factor in the case was fame and money. Simpson was able to buy a “dream team” defense. He had the top criminal lawyers in the country facing off against a few underpaid DA’s. ---
**Author:** ![TreacherousCretin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/treacherouscretin/32/476_2.png) [@TreacherousCretin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TreacherousCretin)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2015, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oj-simpson-murder-trial/725710/31 "2015-07-21T01:29:44Z")
> [@Stuffy](#): > > Terrible prosecution + Mark Furhman. Yep. I wonder if another factor might have been a racist jury. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2015, 9:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oj-simpson-murder-trial/725710/32 "2015-07-21T09:00:52Z")
> [@TennisMenace](#): > > Martin and others, > > You said it was based on a lack of evidence and lack of credibility. > > How was there a lack of evidence: > > 1. Blood inside ford bronco- both victims blood > 2. Bloody shoe impression on carpet floor > 3. Blood on OJs driveway > 4. Blood in OJs foyer > 5. Blood in his bathroom > 6. Blood drenched glove that matched the glove at the murder scene, found on OJ estate > 7. Deep cut on OJs left fingers. When interviewed 15 hours after murder OJ has no explanation ( came up with an explanation after attorney told him what to say later on) > 8. Shoe imprints at murder scene- The shoes were not just any shoes, but Bruno Magli- very expensive, sold in Bloomingdales where OJ buys his > 9. Size 12 shoe- OJs size > 10. The hat found at murder scene had OJs hair in it > 11. Limo driver arrived at house, no white Ford Bronco there and no OJ for 20 minutes ( does anyone really believe OJs testimony given to explain that?) > 12. The missing bag kato wanted to help carry for OJ that just happens to have the missing clothes OJ was wearing that night that he can’t find. Really?? > 13. The next night OJ asks old friend and retired cop Ron Shipp “how long it took to get DNA results back?”(family refutes) > 14. No alibi given by OJ > > Two hours to dismiss all this evidence and acquitt?? > Thanks to all so far for allowing me to get this off my chest again. Like I said, whenever I read or hear something about this, it triggers this reaction and a need to fellowship. > > TM Nothing to connect him directly with the murders. The chain of custody for the blood samples was broken and hence they were not reliable. Finding blood in a bathroom, or a cut on a finger does not mean he killed them. Nor does finding a shoe sprint in OJ’s size millions of men have that size, or shopping in Bloomingdale’s, (ditto) Not what they did in the civil trial was produce pictures of OJ wearing the shoes in question. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2015, 11:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oj-simpson-murder-trial/725710/33 "2015-07-21T11:30:54Z")
The glove demonstration was a clusterfuck. Of course a leather glove of a proper size is not going to slide over a latex glove. They could have said- “Here’s a pair of gloves straight from the factory of the exact same size as the bloodied ones. Try these on.” The shoes would have been critical, had they bothered to find pictures of Simpson wearing the shoes, as the lawyers in the civil trial did. Add to the mix a less than competent prosecution, a racist detective, reliance on a new technology in DNA testing, and a star-struck judge and it’s hard to get a conviction. ---
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2015, 11:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oj-simpson-murder-trial/725710/34 "2015-07-21T11:32:17Z")
> [@TennisMenace](#): > > I do think this one thing (Fuhrman using the N word) sealed the deal and that jury didn’t care about evidence. But it bothers me to think these 12 people didn’t give a rip about Nicole of Goldman’s families. Agreed-the judge allowed the defense to put the LAPD on trail-OJ was irrelevant. ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2015, 11:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oj-simpson-murder-trial/725710/35 "2015-07-21T11:40:04Z")
He was saved by shoddy police work. Which I believe he bought and paid for. Furman was due to be driven off the force and lose his career before this crime occurred. All OJ needed do was pay him off, make sure he was early on site to muck up evidence, etc. It was just enough to muddy all the evidence, and create reasonable doubt. The Blade runner, had the same kind of police connections as OJ did, and very similarly an already disgraced policeman was assigned to be first to manage the crime scene and mishandle the evidence, with a very similar outcome. Even the Jody Arias case was somewhat similar, strong connections to the police force, through her Dad, incompetent initial police work that muddied the evidence and led directly to reasonable doubt. So maybe, if you have connections to the police force, and you find yourself implicated in a murder, if you throw some money around, a ‘bad’ cop will surprisingly be put in charge of site and evidence, just long enough to taint everything and you’ll skate because of reasonable doubt! I’m not saying it was definitely so, it’s just a wild ass theory, and maybe it’s only me who sees a similarity in approach. But I’m thinking maybe it’s the new ‘get out of jail free’ card! ---
**Author:** ![TennisMenace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f05b48/32.png) [@TennisMenace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TennisMenace)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2015, 12:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oj-simpson-murder-trial/725710/36 "2015-07-21T12:48:00Z")
> [@TreacherousCretin](#): > > Yep. I wonder if another factor might have been a racist jury. The jury experts hired by the defense said, “black women will be sympathetic to OJ beating up Nicole or having family violence BECAUSE they know all about that.” I still do not understand this line of reasoning. I would have thought because they have experienced family violence in their lives, this will make them more UNDERSTANDING AND SYMPATHETIC to Nicole, not OJ. Why would they be sympathetic to OJ? Also, the jury experts said that Marcia Clark will hurt the prosecution because black people look disparaging on her. Some from the focus groups called her “bitch.” Yet, for some reason, she was allowed to be an important face to these black women. ---
**Author:** ![TennisMenace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f05b48/32.png) [@TennisMenace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TennisMenace)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2015, 12:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oj-simpson-murder-trial/725710/37 "2015-07-21T12:51:01Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > Nothing to connect him directly with the murders. The chain of custody for the blood samples was broken and hence they were not reliable. Finding blood in a bathroom, or a cut on a finger does not mean he killed them. Nor does finding a shoe sprint in OJ’s size millions of men have that size, or shopping in Bloomingdale’s, (ditto) > > Not what they did in the civil trial was produce pictures of OJ wearing the shoes in question. Refresh my memory here please. Are you saying the chain of custody was broken which meant any evidence of blood samples taken from the crime site could not be attributed to OJ? Thus, blood from the gloves, Ford Bronco, murder site, etc could not finger OJ? I’m not aware it was broken like that. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2015, 1:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oj-simpson-murder-trial/725710/38 "2015-07-21T13:07:55Z")
> [@skdo23](#): > > Technically it wouldn’t. However I do remember that Fred Goldman (the father of one of the victims, and pretty much a household word at the time) saying that he would give up on trying to collect on the civil judgement if OJ admitted to the murders. So, maybe if OJ had pled guilty or been convicted, the Goldman family would have been less motivated to file the lawsuit. That could be the case. I stand by my point that the criminal trial influenced the potential jurors for the civil trial, they weren’t independent events. > [@Amateur\_Barbarian](#): > > Dumb question, not sure where to find the answer quickly: did the gloves have a cut matching that on Simpson’s hand? They did not. > [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > I think the key factor in the case was fame and money. Simpson was able to buy a “dream team” defense. He had the top criminal lawyers in the country facing off against a few underpaid DA’s. Bugliosi addressed this idea in _Outrage_; he concludes that the Dream Team’s performance was mediocre, and that they were saved by the staggering ineptitude of the prosecution (and of Judge Ito). > [@BobLibDem](#): > > The glove demonstration was a clusterfuck. Of course a leather glove of a proper size is not going to slide over a latex glove. They could have said- “Here’s a pair of gloves straight from the factory of the exact same size as the bloodied ones. Try these on.” Don’t forget “pointless”. The gloves were size XL; Simpson wore size XL gloves. He had worn the same gloves during NFL broadcasts, which was well-documented. That Simpson was capable of putting on and comfortably wearing size XL Aris Istoner Light gloves was not in dispute. There was nothing whatsoever to gain by asking Simpson to try them on. > [@AK84](#): > > Nothing to connect him directly with the murders. The chain of custody for the blood samples was broken and hence they were not reliable. Finding blood in a bathroom, or a cut on a finger does not mean he killed them. Nor does finding a shoe sprint in OJ’s size millions of men have that size, or shopping in Bloomingdale’s, (ditto) > > Not what they did in the civil trial was produce pictures of OJ wearing the shoes in question. The shoe print was specifically that of a rare Bruno Magli. The gloves were one of **200** pairs of brown, size XL, Aris Isotoner Lights sold in the United States. One pair of those 200 were purchased by Nicole Brown-Simpson, as verified by a receipt. ---
**Author:** ![spifflog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@spifflog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spifflog)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2015, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oj-simpson-murder-trial/725710/39 "2015-07-21T13:35:25Z")
My own tiny insight into this was when the verdict was read. There were about 10 of my employees in the break room watching. The majority of them were black. When the verdict was read, they cheered and high fived each other. I was amazed at the verdict (seems overwhelmingly clear to me that he killed them both) and I asked one of my (black) employees who I was very friendly with later that day what convinced him that OJ was innocent. His answer: “OJ killed them both.” I think he felt the way the jury felt. Shoes on the other foot now. ---
**Author:** ![TennisMenace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f05b48/32.png) [@TennisMenace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TennisMenace)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2015, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oj-simpson-murder-trial/725710/40 "2015-07-21T13:44:50Z")
> [@spifflog](#): > > My own tiny insight into this was when the verdict was read. There were about 10 of my employees in the break room watching. The majority of them were black. When the verdict was read, they cheered and high fived each other. I was amazed at the verdict (seems overwhelmingly clear to me that he killed them both) and I asked one of my (black) employees who I was very friendly with later that day what convinced him that OJ was innocent. > > His answer: “OJ killed them both.” > > I think he felt the way the jury felt. Shoes on the other foot now. This is a very good point. What you are saying here is simply- it doesn’t matter if OJ killed them or not, what matters is this- enough Black people have been unfairly convicted in your courts over a long period of time, and you ain’t getting this one. The irony to me here is this- OJ didn’t seem that connected to the Black Community, but I guess it didn’t matter. His skin color is Black, good enough. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oj-simpson-murder-trial/725710.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oj-simpson-murder-trial/725710.md?page=3)