# OK Alabama **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 12, 2017, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-alabama/804253 "2017-12-12T02:13:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2017, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-alabama/804253/81 "2017-12-12T20:21:48Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > You need to learn that, if you want anything close to your cause to ever succeed, you need to shut the fuck up and distance yourself from it as fast as humanly possible. …says the guy who makes shit up about other posters and doesn’t even try to back it up. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2017, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-alabama/804253/82 "2017-12-12T20:26:11Z")
Well, yeah! One thing, a guy says you are a goat-fucker, but its worse if he provides pics, right? ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2017, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-alabama/804253/83 "2017-12-12T20:29:32Z")
> [@Doctor\_Jackson](#): > > Slightly off topic, but to those who keep positing that the southern US is more racist than any other region, [this article](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2015/04/28/the-most-racist-places-in-america-according-to-google/?utm_term=.60f8f9831324)and map based on Google data shows a different story: > Racism is tough to measure, and Google’s methodology is not air tight. It’s based on web searches and only reflects racism against blacks. Regions in the west may show more racism if Hispanics or Native Americans were included, for instance. > > For instance, by counting the number of known hate groups in each state, [this article](https://thetab.com/us/2017/08/15/these-five-states-have-the-most-hate-groups-in-the-us-70750)determines the top 5 most racist states are California, Florida, Texas, New York and Pennsylvania. So, not surprisingly, there are more hate groups in states with the largest populations. Put another way, these 5 states make up about a third of the US population and house about a third of US hate groups. Racism is everywhere people are. Is this per capita searches or overall searches? The five states listed are all in the top 6 states regarding population (Illinois is #5). Racism and bigotry exists everywhere. But the type and intensity varies. New York, California and Pennsylvania fought to abolish slavery while Texas and Florida fought to keep it. I’d consider that less racist, to fight a war to abolish slavery vs fighting a war to keep it. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2017, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-alabama/804253/84 "2017-12-12T20:32:19Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > _You_ calling someone else homophobic is probably the most hypocritical thing I’ve ever seen on these boards …because i’m such a big homophobe? Or do you not know what the word “hypocritical” means, any more than what “yiffing” was? > [@](#): > > , although the closest competition is your comments on race. Well, that didn’t take long. Why’s it \*always \*got to be about race with you, **Steo**? :dubious: > [@](#): > > People like you I suppose it’s a \*leeetle \*better than “You people”, I’ll give you that. > [@](#): > > are the reason that otherwise sensible people end up voting for scumbags like Moore Let me stop you there. I could, on the regular, be pissing in their kiddies’ playpool while haranguing the whole family on the benefits of Communist Veganism and the evils of Mom and Apple Pie, and that would \*still \*not be the least bit of justification to vote for a Moore. Personal spite is an immoral motivation for political action. Voting out of spite automatically disqualifies them from being “sensible people”. They’re just “otherwise people”. The words you’re really reaching for is “reactionary fucks” > [@](#): > > he is a better person than you Damn, guy. I mean, I know it’s the Pit, but still…You French your Mom with that mouth? > [@](#): > > , and less dangerous than you would be were you ever to get power. I’m an anarchist, idiot. The only thing I’d do with power is devolve it to a syndicalist collective. > [@](#): > > You need to learn that, if you want anything close to your cause to ever succeed, you need to shut the fuck up and distance yourself from it as fast as humanly possible. What makes you think I’d take any advice from a racist-loving idiot like you, **Steo**? Was it the voices? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2017, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-alabama/804253/85 "2017-12-12T20:34:37Z")
To many a discerning eye, Texas joined the Confederacy for two reasons: one, it would have been almost impossible to sell beef to the North anyway. And second, there was a fight, and they just had to get mixed up in it somehow. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tooth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c67d28/32.png) [@The\_Tooth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tooth)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2017, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-alabama/804253/86 "2017-12-12T20:40:33Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > This is where in the scary movie you get that musical sound effect that suggests dark and dangerous foreshadowing. (…dun-dun-DUNH!..) Don’t go up those stairs! No! Don’t open that door, didn’t you hear the fucking music? It’s your new national anthem. ---
**Author:** ![Knowed\_Out](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/knowed_out/32/7380_2.png) [@Knowed\_Out](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knowed_Out)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2017, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-alabama/804253/87 "2017-12-12T20:52:22Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > If one considers that the goal is to get them to stop BEING racist, one wonders what WILL help. Welcome them and treat them with respect. Don’t assume malice on their part. Understand that they’re acting out of fear. Show them how much better society works without racist ideas dragging it down. Don’t put on superior airs or talk down to them. Provide a good example they’ll be interested in following. Remember that racial struggles go back to the beginning of time, over all parts of the world, and don’t single them out as the only perpetrators. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2017, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-alabama/804253/88 "2017-12-12T20:58:50Z")
So, “don’t be uppity”, eh? ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2017, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-alabama/804253/89 "2017-12-12T20:59:24Z")
> [@Doctor\_Jackson](#): > > Slightly off topic, but to those who keep positing that the southern US is more racist than any other region, [this article](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2015/04/28/the-most-racist-places-in-america-according-to-google/?utm_term=.60f8f9831324)and map based on Google data shows a different story Not much different. That there’s a lot of racists in Appalachia should surprise zero people. The next bunch of red and pink is largely in the Confederate states with “less racist” areas around the larger cities. Hardly a shocker. I mean, the article opens with: > [@](#): > > Where do America’s most racist people live? “The rural Northeast and South,” suggests a new study just published in PLOS ONE. ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2017, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-alabama/804253/90 "2017-12-12T20:59:51Z")
So treat them light years better than they treat the objects of their bigotry? If we’re just nice enough to the bigots they will see the light? Has this ever worked anywhere? ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2017, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-alabama/804253/91 "2017-12-12T21:01:53Z")
> [@Knowed\_Out](#): > > Welcome them and treat them with respect. Don’t assume malice on their part. Understand that they’re acting out of fear. … With so much horseshit, there has to be a pony in there somewhere. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2017, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-alabama/804253/92 "2017-12-12T21:02:38Z")
> [@Airbeck](#): > > So treat them light years better than they treat the objects of their bigotry? If we’re just nice enough to the bigots they will see the light? > > Has this ever worked anywhere? It works for them. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2017, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-alabama/804253/93 "2017-12-12T21:06:13Z")
> [@Airbeck](#): > > So treat them light years better than they treat the objects of their bigotry? If we’re just nice enough to the bigots they will see the light? > > Has this ever worked anywhere? Are you familiar with Martin Luther King, Jr? I certainly don’t mean to oversimplify the social justice process, but everyone has a role to play. The world needs the MLKs as much as it needs the Malcom Xs. We’re not all made to scream epithets through a bullhorn. Even those who fought with strong language and aggressive strategy had it a little more thought out than “fuck all ya’ll.” The problem if you ask me is we have no fucking leadership. We’ve got a bunch of angry people and no strategy. ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2017, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-alabama/804253/94 "2017-12-12T21:10:13Z")
I’ll admit I’m not the biggest expert on the civil rights movement and everything MLK did back then, but I don’t think being nice to bigots was the key to getting the civil rights act passed. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2017, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-alabama/804253/95 "2017-12-12T21:18:58Z")
> [@Spice\_Weasel](#): > > … > The problem if you ask me is we have no fucking leadership. We’ve got a bunch of angry people and no strategy. This. > [@Airbeck](#): > > I’ll admit I’m not the biggest expert on the civil rights movement and everything MLK did back then, but I don’t think being nice to bigots was the key to getting the civil rights act passed. There was a lot more to it than “being nice.” You knew that, right? ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2017, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-alabama/804253/96 "2017-12-12T21:21:50Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > There was a lot more to it than “being nice.” You knew that, right? Of course. I think you missed some context here. I didn’t bring up MLK. I asked if being nice to bigots ever worked anywhere to reduce bigotry. **Spice Weasel** then said “Are you familiar with Martin Luther King, Jr?” My post was in response to that. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2017, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-alabama/804253/97 "2017-12-12T21:23:07Z")
> [@Airbeck](#): > > I’ll admit I’m not the biggest expert on the civil rights movement and everything MLK did back then, but I don’t think being nice to bigots was the key to getting the civil rights act passed. Agreed, but neither was gratuitous name calling. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2017, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-alabama/804253/98 "2017-12-12T21:23:50Z")
> [@Airbeck](#): > > I’ll admit I’m not the biggest expert on the civil rights movement and everything MLK did back then, but I don’t think being nice to bigots was the key to getting the civil rights act passed. It helped that nobody was in denial about pictures of would-be voters getting firehosed or having police dogs sicced on them, or the open-casket evidence of what was done to Emmett Till. The “be nice” approach would have observers saying “Oh, it’s not their fault, the southern whites are just \*scared \*and we have to be understanding when they act out.” No; when they’re assholes, call them out for being assholes. ---
**Author:** ![MandaJo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2017, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-alabama/804253/99 "2017-12-12T21:28:50Z")
> [@Spice\_Weasel](#): > > Are you familiar with Martin Luther King, Jr? > > I certainly don’t mean to oversimplify the social justice process, but everyone has a role to play. The world needs the MLKs as much as it needs the Malcom Xs. We’re not all made to scream epithets through a bullhorn. Even those who fought with strong language and aggressive strategy had it a little more thought out than “fuck all ya’ll.” > > The problem if you ask me is we have no fucking leadership. We’ve got a bunch of angry people and no strategy. > [@](#): > > I must make two honest confessions to you, my Christian and Jewish brothers. First, I must confess that over the past few years I have been gravely disappointed with the white moderate. I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro’s great stumbling block in his stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen’s Counciler or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate, who is more devoted to “order” than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; who constantly says: “I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I cannot agree with your methods of direct action”; who paternalistically believes he can set the timetable for another man’s freedom; who lives by a mythical concept of time and who constantly advises the Negro to wait for a “more convenient season.” Shallow understanding from people of good will is more frustrating than absolute misunderstanding from people of ill will. Lukewarm acceptance is much more bewildering than outright rejection. > > I had hoped that the white moderate would understand that law and order exist for the purpose of establishing justice and that when they fail in this purpose they become the dangerously structured dams that block the flow of social progress. I had hoped that the white moderate would understand that the present tension in the South is a necessary phase of the transition from an obnoxious negative peace, in which the Negro passively accepted his unjust plight, to a substantive and positive peace, in which all men will respect the dignity and worth of human personality. Actually, we who engage in nonviolent direct action are not the creators of tension. We merely bring to the surface the hidden tension that is already alive. We bring it out in the open, where it can be seen and dealt with. Like a boil that can never be cured so long as it is covered up but must be opened with all its ugliness to the natural medicines of air and light, injustice must be exposed, with all the tension its exposure creates, to the light of human conscience and the air of national opinion before it can be cured. King was not afraid to challenge people to personally stand up, and he did not bother trying to build bridges with the likes of the KKK. He explicitly denounced the strategy of gradually bringing about change: > [@](#): > > We know through painful experience that freedom is never voluntarily given by the oppressor; it must be demanded by the oppressed. Frankly, I have yet to engage in a direct action campaign that was “well timed” in the view of those who have not suffered unduly from the disease of segregation. For years now I have heard the word “Wait!” It rings in the ear of every Negro with piercing familiarity. This “Wait” has almost always meant “Never.” We must come to see, with one of our distinguished jurists, that “justice too long delayed is justice denied.” > > We have waited for more than 340 years for our constitutional and God given rights. The nations of Asia and Africa are moving with jetlike speed toward gaining political independence, but we still creep at horse and buggy pace toward gaining a cup of coffee at a lunch counter. Perhaps it is easy for those who have never felt the stinging darts of segregation to say, “Wait.” But when you have seen vicious mobs lynch your mothers and fathers at will and drown your sisters and brothers at whim; when you have seen hate filled policemen curse, kick and even kill your black brothers and sisters; when you see the vast majority of your twenty million Negro brothers smothering in an airtight cage of poverty in the midst of an affluent society; when you suddenly find your tongue twisted and your speech stammering as you seek to explain to your six year old daughter why she can’t go to the public amusement park that has just been advertised on television, and see tears welling up in her eyes when she is told that Funtown is closed to colored children, and see ominous clouds of inferiority beginning to form in her little mental sky, and see her beginning to distort her personality by developing an unconscious bitterness toward white people; when you have to concoct an answer for a five year old son who is asking: “Daddy, why do white people treat colored people so mean?”; when you take a cross county drive and find it necessary to sleep night after night in the uncomfortable corners of your automobile because no motel will accept you; when you are humiliated day in and day out by nagging signs reading “white” and “colored”; when your first name becomes “nigger,” your middle name becomes “boy” (however old you are) and your last name becomes “John,” and your wife and mother are never given the respected title “Mrs.”; when you are harried by day and haunted by night by the fact that you are a Negro, living constantly at tiptoe stance, never quite knowing what to expect next, and are plagued with inner fears and outer resentments; when you are forever fighting a degenerating sense of “nobodiness”–then you will understand why we find it difficult to wait. King is willing to talk and be civil, but he never, ever concedes or accommodates. ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2017, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-alabama/804253/100 "2017-12-12T21:29:59Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > Agreed, but neither was gratuitous name calling. Look the goal is to fight bigotry. Bigots do not want to change, sometimes all the way to the point of violence. I get the idea that just insulting them isn’t going to help, but being nice and respectful isn’t going to help either. Societal pressure helps, elections help, enforcement of anti-discrimination laws help, bigots getting to know someone from the group they are bigoted against helps. How I, airbeck, treat an individual bigot will have zero impact. Note: I do not go around insulting bigots, in fact I try not to insult anyone ever if I can help it. But sometimes an asshole is just an asshole and being nice isn’t going to change that asshole. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-alabama/804253.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-alabama/804253.md?page=6)