# OK Alabama **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 12, 2017, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-alabama/804253 "2017-12-12T02:13:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2017, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-alabama/804253/101 "2017-12-12T21:30:48Z")
> [@Spice\_Weasel](#): > > The problem if you ask me is we have no fucking leadership. We’ve got a bunch of angry people and no strategy. That’s a perfect being the enemy of the good problem right there. We’ve got plenty of people that would be good leaders, but no one that everyone agrees is perfect. So we have no leaders. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2017, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-alabama/804253/102 "2017-12-12T21:32:26Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > It helped that nobody was in denial about pictures of would-be voters getting firehosed or having police dogs sicced on them, or the open-casket evidence of what was done to Emmett Till. > > The “be nice” approach would have observers saying “Oh, it’s not their fault, the southern whites are just \*scared \*and we have to be understanding when they act out.” > > No; when they’re assholes, call them out for being assholes. Hey now, there’s good people on both sides of that firehose. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2017, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-alabama/804253/103 "2017-12-12T21:41:03Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > That’s a perfect being the enemy of the good problem right there. We’ve got plenty of people that would be good leaders, but no one that everyone agrees is perfect. > > So we have no leaders. Who are some that would be good leaders? (Not being snarky. Not looking for perfection.) Seriously, I need reason to hope. ---
**Author:** ![gytalf2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ac91a4/32.png) [@gytalf2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gytalf2000)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2017, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-alabama/804253/104 "2017-12-12T21:56:55Z")
> [@Knowed\_Out](#): > > Welcome them and treat them with respect. Don’t assume malice on their part. Understand that they’re acting out of fear. Show them how much better society works without racist ideas dragging it down. Don’t put on superior airs or talk down to them. Provide a good example they’ll be interested in following. Remember that racial struggles go back to the beginning of time, over all parts of the world, and don’t single them out as the only perpetrators. Excellent! I like that a lot. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2017, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-alabama/804253/105 "2017-12-12T22:03:55Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > Who are some that would be good leaders? (Not being snarky. Not looking for perfection.) Seriously, I need reason to hope. Don’t know if I want to name names, because I’ll probably wake up tomorrow with their names in the headline on the next sexual harassment scandal. Franken would probably one, if not for his recent fall. I actually really liked howard dean, not that he is really all that relevant these days. Elizabeth Warren’s cool, but she may have too much baggage. I’m particular to Sherrod Brown, but I’ve actually had many conversations with him, and he’s my state senator, so I may be biased. Don’t know if he is relevant, but I liked Martin O’Malley, if Clinton hadn’t been running, he probably would have been a good pick. Hell, it sounds like Kasich is about to defect from the republican party. I could see use for him in leadership roles in a new democratic party. Anyway, it does seem as though any name you can throw out, there’s a “but” to it. I am just saying, maybe those “buts” don’t need to be as big a stumbling block as we make them into. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2017, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-alabama/804253/106 "2017-12-12T22:09:54Z")
> [@Airbeck](#): > > Look the goal is to fight bigotry. Bigots do not want to change, sometimes all the way to the point of violence. I get the idea that just insulting them isn’t going to help, but being nice and respectful isn’t going to help either. Societal pressure helps, elections help, enforcement of anti-discrimination laws help, bigots getting to know someone from the group they are bigoted against helps. How I, airbeck, treat an individual bigot will have zero impact. Note: I do not go around insulting bigots, in fact I try not to insult anyone ever if I can help it. But sometimes an asshole is just an asshole and being nice isn’t going to change that asshole. Right. Shit now that we have a racist bigot in charge, they are all scurrying back out from under the rug. They feel empowered. Perhaps it’s good in a way to have them back out in the light of day where they can be properly stomped on. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2017, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-alabama/804253/107 "2017-12-12T22:10:16Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > This is where in the scary movie you get that musical sound effect that suggests dark and dangerous foreshadowing. (…dun-dun-DUNH!..) Don’t go up those stairs! No! Don’t open that door, didn’t you hear the fucking music? > [@The\_Tooth](#): > > It’s your new national anthem. [Kinda like this?](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jHjFxJVeCQs) ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2017, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-alabama/804253/108 "2017-12-12T22:11:46Z")
> [@Airbeck](#): > > Of course. I think you missed some context here. I didn’t bring up MLK. I asked if being nice to bigots ever worked anywhere to reduce bigotry. > > **Spice Weasel** then said “Are you familiar with Martin Luther King, Jr?” > > My post was in response to that. FTR I’m responding with no context also. I just liked what Knowed Out said and it made me think about the general lack of strategy on the left. I’m not convinced shutting people out of dialog is entirely productive, but at the same time I wouldn’t be friends with a misogynist or pedophile. It’s one thing to be angry in a forum designed for vitriol, but from my perspective, once you step from “I have every right to be angry” to “being angry is best for social change,” That’s a different conversation. Maybe I’ll start that conversation in GD. Like, later. Take care. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2017, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-alabama/804253/109 "2017-12-12T22:17:45Z")
> [@MandaJo](#): > > King was not afraid to challenge people to personally stand up, and he did not bother trying to build bridges with the likes of the KKK. He explicitly denounced the strategy of gradually bringing about change: > > King is willing to talk and be civil, but he never, ever concedes or accommodates. If you really wanna talk about King as an individual, I don’t know much, but I have a former professor who worked with him. King, behind the scenes, at least, was not enthralled with his role as peacemaker and wanted to quit. No doubt his bitterness increased with time. But his personal feelings notwithstanding, the question is to what extent his public strategy worked. I think there’s a difference between tolerating racism and trying to understand it for the purpose of changing society, but YMMV. But again, even Malcom X had a strategy. We once had strategies. I think it’s the single biggest difference between the social justice movements then and now. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2017, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-alabama/804253/110 "2017-12-12T22:52:47Z")
> [@Knowed\_Out](#): > > Welcome them and treat them with respect. Don’t assume malice on their part. Understand that they’re acting out of fear. These are people, not bears. Do they want to be treated like animals or like rational, thinking humans? Because when rational, thinking humans vote for the creepy pedophile because “he’s OUR creepy pedophile” then they deserve to be called out on it. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2017, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-alabama/804253/111 "2017-12-12T23:25:52Z")
The whole philosophy of “treat them nice” is (to the degree it’s not just shitty racists trying to get good people to stop criticizing them) predicated on the assumption that you work yourselves into your lives and demonstrate to them, over months and years, that it’s possible for ‘people like you’ to not be awful, through sheer familiarity. And then from there you gently help them realize that you’re not the one good exception. This can’t possibly work over the internet. So there’s nothing lost by calling them the festering piles of rotting shit they are. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2017, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-alabama/804253/112 "2017-12-12T23:45:36Z")
Well, I think all of this started with two people debating over the difference between an ephebophile and a pedophile, before somehow turning into a debate over rights. That being said… > [@Airbeck](#): > > Look the goal is to fight bigotry. Bigots do not want to change, sometimes all the way to the point of violence. I get the idea that just insulting them isn’t going to help, but being nice and respectful isn’t going to help either. Societal pressure helps, elections help, enforcement of anti-discrimination laws help, bigots getting to know someone from the group they are bigoted against helps. How I, airbeck, treat an individual bigot will have zero impact. Note: I do not go around insulting bigots, in fact I try not to insult anyone ever if I can help it. But sometimes an asshole is just an asshole and being nice isn’t going to change that asshole. I don’t disagree - I don’t think anyone here was saying that Roy Moore’s behavior wasn’t disturbing, and nobody was saying be nice to bigots. But the comments had nothing to do with bigotry; it was just unhinged flaming of another poster. Not productive. Not necessary. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2017, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-alabama/804253/113 "2017-12-12T23:47:44Z")
I posit that there’s a middle ground. I don’t always know what it is. But I think it exists. Part of it is recognizing who is going to be opening to listening, and who won’t. There are some people it’s hopeless to bother with. I think it’s pretty evident that Roy Moore is a piece of shit. Are his voters all pieces of shit? Probably not. Does it absolve them from doing a terrible thing? No. But there are gradations of terrible things. Some people can hear, and some people can’t. > [@Jophiel](#): > > These are people, not bears. Do they want to be treated like animals or like rational, thinking humans? I think humanity’s greatest challenge is the eternal conflict between the ‘‘rational, thinking human’’ and the animal that we are. The ‘‘rational, thinking’’ part looks almost like an afterthought on behalf of mother nature. Our brains are mostly and most anciently animal, all brain stem and amygdala and instinct. Then we’ve got this mess of cerebral cortex just kinda plopped on top. That’s a much more recent invention, and research indicates it doesn’t have near as much control as we would like to think. We are still dominated by the most ancient parts of us. I read an article that posited that the entire evolutionary purpose of the cerebral cortex in the first place was to allow us to make sophisticated physical movements. Rationality, so went the argument, was just a weird by-product. I’m a not an evolutionary neurologist and cannot comment on the quality of evidence in that favor. But we are animals. Sorry, I’ll go be philosophical somewhere else. I just think there are all kinds of fascinating ideas buried in this thread. I’ll contribute something more productive: Roy Moore is a racist piece of child-molesting shit and he deserves to be prison. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2017, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-alabama/804253/114 "2017-12-12T23:48:40Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > The only thing I’d do with power is devolve it to a syndicalist collective. I rest my fucking case. You are more dangerous, and more deluded, than any Republican (or other mainstream politician), even if they are a literal child rapist\*. You would watch the world burn because of your ignorance and prejdice, at least the politicians are trying to make things better, however badly they are actually doing at it. You want to destroy everything that raises us above animals. But hey, stick with insulting people’s sexuality and making unfounded accusations of racism. Everyone can see your hypocrisy (and for that matter, that of others making false accusations in this thread). \*Because, as someone posted earlier, a child rapist can at worst fuck thousands. Someone like **MrDribble** wants to fuck all 7 billion. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2017, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-alabama/804253/115 "2017-12-12T23:50:59Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > Everyone can see your hypocrisy (and for that matter, that of others making false accusations in this thread). LOL. Why not poll the Dope, if you feel this way? Maybe you’re a coward as well as a liar? ---
**Author:** ![Guest-starring\_Id](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guest-starring_id/32/21736_2.png) [@Guest-starring\_Id](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guest-starring_Id)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2017, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-alabama/804253/116 "2017-12-13T00:24:39Z")
Well if my name isn’t Totie Fields but Mang this thread has just _zoomed_ along. Glad I wasn’t back here in the old days when apparently there was way more traffic here! > [@Flyer](#): > > Nice try, morons. There is absolutely no evidence that Moore is a pedophile. But both of you are too stupid and too lazy to care about facts. > [@JohnT](#): > > Awwww, got your butt hurt, did you? > > Go ahead, make your stand on this issue. I’m sure you’ll be… something. Ok - bad enough, **Flyer** , that you’ve besmirched the good name of my NHL team, but where the fuck are you to back your stupid shit, face? > [@ThelmaLou](#): > > Then there’s this: > > [Source](http://www.al.com/news/index.ssf/2017/12/in_final-hour_order_court_rule.html#incart_m-rpt-2) This incenses me - > [@](#): > > “[Merrill and Packard’s attorneys] made a bunch of spurious arguments that they don’t have the authority to tell [election officials across the state] what to do - well, they’re already telling them what to do - and that it will cause a bunch of confusion at the polls, but the voters wouldn’t even know if they changed their retention policy,” [Priscilla] Duncan [attorney for four Alabama voters who sued the state last week in an attempt to force election officials to preserve the digital records] said. It’s like they’re not even trying to be underhanded about it - just an outright, brazen “fuck this election horseshit” to Alabama’s voters. Don’t understand why O’Malley hasn’t taken the Dems’ reins. I’m not buying that he was an also-ran, there’s no way that would completely de-legitimize him. > [@](#): > > **Steophan** ;20661220You are more dangerous, and more deluded, than any Republican (or other mainstream politician), even if they are a literal child rapist\*. Even with your weaksauce-as-fuck footnoting, this statement tells me all that I need to know you about you. To even _think_ of attempting such a creepy POS analogy… > [@Steophan](#): > > …at least the politicians are trying to make things better, however badly they are actually doing at it. Elaborate. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2017, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-alabama/804253/117 "2017-12-13T00:42:51Z")
> [@Guest-starring\_Id](#): > > Elaborate. **Dibble** is an admitted anarchist, and therefore by definition wants to destroy any form of ordered society and reduce us to a natural nasty, brutish and short life. That is worse than what _any_ mainstream politician wants to do. I expect this to fall on deaf ears, though, as there are people in this thread, **Dibble** included, who literally think the existence of police and justice systems make life worse for people in general. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2017, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-alabama/804253/118 "2017-12-13T00:43:01Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > I rest my fucking case. You are more dangerous, and more deluded, than any Republican (or other mainstream politician), even if they are a literal child rapist\*. You would watch the world burn because of your ignorance and prejdice, at least the politicians are trying to make things better, however badly they are actually doing at it. You want to destroy everything that raises us above animals. > > But hey, stick with insulting people’s sexuality and making unfounded accusations of racism. Everyone can see your hypocrisy (and for that matter, that of others making false accusations in this thread). > > \*Because, as someone posted earlier, a child rapist can at worst fuck thousands. Someone like **MrDribble** wants to fuck all 7 billion. …you are fucking clueless. **MrDribble** doesn’t even live in the United States. He is but a single anonymous voice on a small and relatively insignificant messageboard that almost nobody knows about. He is more “dangerous” than a mainstream politician? More dangerous than a child fucker? Really? Are you fucking stupid? You are literally defending child fuckers. You are claiming a guy with an opinion is worse than a child fucker. You really are the worst. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2017, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-alabama/804253/119 "2017-12-13T01:00:03Z")
Something occurred to me, dunno if we have broached this before. Suppose McConnell pukes hard and the rest of the Senate joins in, refuses to seat the Swamp Thing. Does that mean the Governor of Alabama chooses a replacement? ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2017, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-alabama/804253/120 "2017-12-13T01:03:01Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > You are literally defending child fuckers. You are claiming a guy with an opinion is worse than a child fucker. You really are the worst. At least you’ve shown you can understand words, now let’s see if you can understand concepts. What someone has done - no matter how reprehensible - has no effect on the validity of their political opinions, or any other opinions for that matter. Anarchism is a far more dangerous philosophy than any mainstream political view. _Because_, at least in part, anarchism would require that people could not band together to prevent someone fucking children, because having a police force or a legal system would be worse than said child fucking. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-alabama/804253.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-alabama/804253.md?page=7)