# Ok, Atheist. What's the problem? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 5, 2010, 5:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-atheist-whats-the-problem/542025 "2010-06-05T05:54:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2010, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-atheist-whats-the-problem/542025/41 "2010-06-05T16:45:15Z")
> [@NOLA\_Cajun](#): > > Nope..that don’t fly. Your failure to understand does not mean the explanation is wrong. > [@](#): > > Where is the starting point? Before 13.7 What was there? un-time? 13.8?? The starting point is the time the universe came into existence. Time doesn’t have any meaning before that. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2010, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-atheist-whats-the-problem/542025/42 "2010-06-05T17:00:47Z")
As for “where did the big bang come from?”, our best guess nowadays is that we’ll never know, because any information about the first instants of the big bang were obliterated by the big bang. If your house burns down that could destroy the evidence that would have told you why your house burned down. So you’ll never know why, because the event destroyed the evidence of the cause of the event. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2010, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-atheist-whats-the-problem/542025/43 "2010-06-05T17:07:30Z")
I’m responding without reading anything but the OP, because I am just that big fo a jackass. To the OP: why should does the universe imply a pre-existent creator, but not the same for God? ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2010, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-atheist-whats-the-problem/542025/44 "2010-06-05T17:09:52Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Eyes not wired backwards, an appendix not so vulnerable to infection, a body properly designed for walking upright instead of a clumsy modification of a quadruped design, **bones made of something less brittle** , a throat arrangement not made for choking (animals don’t have our problems there), better designed software for the brain (we have all sorts of built in reasoning and perception defects), a third or fourth set of teeth so they last as long as the rest of us; that’s just off the top of my head. > > And that’s just design defects that need fixing in our own species; other species have their own defects, and there are huge missed opportunities in nature. DT, just from idle curiosity, what substance would you like our bones to be made from? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2010, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-atheist-whats-the-problem/542025/45 "2010-06-05T17:10:54Z")
As nice as it would be to have something/one to blame all this on: No. ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2010, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-atheist-whats-the-problem/542025/46 "2010-06-05T17:16:58Z")
If there was a ‘designer’, where’d he go? Why’d he stop designing? What the hell? Just stopped by for 6 days of creating and then nothing for 2 millennium? If he’s so intelligent, how come, all this time later, no definitive proof has been found? I mean, we found proof of long gone civilizations, dinosaurs, quantum physics. I should think we’d have stumbled onto something, by this time. But no, the best we get is a wordy book of questionable veracity and blind faith. If there was an intelligent designer I should think he’d be appalled at what’s been done in his name. I should think he’d have been smart enough to keep cruel wars, persecution and such from being done in his name. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2010, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-atheist-whats-the-problem/542025/47 "2010-06-05T17:19:02Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > As for “where did the big bang come from?”, our best guess nowadays is that we’ll never know, because any information about the first instants of the big bang were obliterated by the big bang. The first rule of Big Bang is you don’t ask about Big Bang. ---
**Author:** ![suranyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@suranyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/suranyi)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2010, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-atheist-whats-the-problem/542025/48 "2010-06-05T17:26:33Z")
I think the OP was a joke, which is why it was first posted in MPSIMS. People, don’t take it so seriously. ETA: That’s confirmed by all his subsequent responses: Definitely a joke. I guess it’s too easy to get people riled up here. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2010, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-atheist-whats-the-problem/542025/49 "2010-06-05T17:34:30Z")
> [@NOLA\_Cajun](#): > > Doesn’t any of this say “intelligent designer”? Is the pope a Buddist? To add to the arguments above, also it’s a very natural tendancy for humans to anthropomorphize aspects of the world. Over time though many of the things that were once thought to demonstrate intelligence have been shown to be caused by natural processes. With the remaining gaps, we should be careful not fall into the trap again of assuming looks like intelligence: therefore intelligence. (Not that it even _looks like_ intelligence IMO) > [@Lynn Bodoni](#): > > It would be one thing if I ate a steady diet of junk food, but I mostly follow the recommendations given to me by my endocrinologist. Even if you did eat a diet of junk food, god would not be blameless for hemorrhoids. It’s pretty established that there is an innate predisposition towards fatty, low-fibre foods. So that disposition + bowels vulnerable to that kind of diet = nice work, god. ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2010, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-atheist-whats-the-problem/542025/50 "2010-06-05T17:37:31Z")
> [@suranyi](#): > > I guess it’s too easy to get people riled up here. Yea don’t say. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Alka\_Seltzer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c89c15/32.png) [@Alka\_Seltzer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alka_Seltzer)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2010, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-atheist-whats-the-problem/542025/51 "2010-06-05T17:38:01Z")
A few simple examples from human anatomy that suggest we were not designed: - The appendix. The lifetime risk for acute appendicitus is about 1 in 11. If untreated, death is likely. - The blind spot. Why would a designer put the optic nerve _in front_ of the photoreceptors? - Short-sightedness, which effects a very large proportion of the population. Again, what is this designer playing at? These flaws are however entirely consistant with the theory of evolution. Evolution finds “good enough” solution, not optimal ones, and works by slow adaption. Short-sightedness is not a major handicap in an agricultural society, so the genes that produce it are not eliminated. The eye slowly adapted over many generations, so it wasn’t possibly to completely re-wire it. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2010, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-atheist-whats-the-problem/542025/52 "2010-06-05T17:40:46Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > DT, just from idle curiosity, what substance would you like our bones to be made from? Well, something like titanium would be nice; a common element (if hard to extract and work technologically), very strong, light, and compatible with human tissue (which is why it’s used surgical implants). If our evolutionary history had been a bit different perhaps we’d be using titanium instead of calcium. For something more typically found in living things, perhaps something similar to wood. Wood unlike bone is capable of both being strong and somewhat flexible at the same time. Add in a copy of spider dragline silk - (it’s strong enough for bulletproof vests) to further increase it’s strength; that would also be a nice augmentation to the rest of the body in fact. ---
**Author:** ![Find\_Friends](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c37758/32.png) [@Find\_Friends](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Find_Friends)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2010, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-atheist-whats-the-problem/542025/53 "2010-06-05T17:41:02Z")
> [@NOLA\_Cajun](#): > > Nope..that don’t fly. Where is the starting point? Before 13.7 What was there? un-time? 13.8?? Hey, NOLA Cajun! What did your face look like one year before sperm merged into egg? What?! The question I asked has no meaning? Sorry, guy, that don’t fly. Answer it anyway. 😛 _ **- “Jack”** _ ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2010, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-atheist-whats-the-problem/542025/54 "2010-06-05T17:45:53Z")
> [@NOLA\_Cajun](#): > > Forget the plethora of world religions and explanations. Because I suspect this “religion” thing is really what turns you off the most. Understandable. Mankind is a sorry representation of “GOD”. > > So let’s just look at it from a more practical point. > > 1. We’re here. (none of this man-made-religious-are-we-really-here-bullshit) > 2. The universe is here. We have even begun to probe the ass of it. True. If neither the universe or we were here, we probably wouldn’t be having this conversation. So what? > [@](#): > > Doesn’t any of this say “intelligent designer”? Not hardly. Stupid designer at best. Look at all that wasted space. Look at all those planets where we never could live. > [@](#): > > It seems we know more of what’s outside our planet then what’s here. The oceans are still a mystery to us. What we have seen in some of the most hostile environments on earth is life. Living organisms. Flourishing. And we still haven’t seen all that is in the Earth. We have no idea how to drill through to China (pardon), but we can send a man to the Moon, a probe to Saturn… etc., etc., etc… I digress. I don’t think you grasp how immensely huge the universe is. We have no idea, nor can we, what stars billions of light years away look like. Given that we have only been exploring under the water for a hundred years or so, we are doing pretty well. > [@](#): > > Is it really easier to believe that this “Being” has always existed or that the “Universe” always has? Maybe that’s true agnosticism. The Universe is the God that has always been but we can never know Him/Her/It because it is not an intelligent being but just The Universe. Maybe we will be or maybe we will not. The Universe will decide that in each if it’s new cycles. If you want to call the universe god, then god exists. If you want to call that traffic light god, same thing. If God has no intelligence, no purpose for us, no wishes, and if god never interacts with us, then there is no difference between god existing and not existing. > [@](#): > > Boy that thing has a lot of energy that never dies. Never? Ok cool. When did it begin? It’s just always been? Always? > > Obvious question Numero Uno: Oh ok, so this “god” has just always been? Always? Sure has a lot of energy… good questions as well. At the moment it appears that the net energy in the universe is zero. Next question. > [@](#): > > Still sounds like intelligence to me. > > disclaimer: doesn’t mean that the intelligence gives a shit about you or me but still it does sound like we could be one of my science projects i left under my bed a week or 2 too long. As we see from Conway’s Game of Life, complex structures can arise from very simple rules, no intelligence required. No anything in the universe that does not appear to have evolved, as it were from simple rules - including us? If not, there is no reason for there to be a god. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2010, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-atheist-whats-the-problem/542025/55 "2010-06-05T17:49:46Z")
> [@NOLA\_Cajun](#): > > Doesn’t any of this say “intelligent designer”? Has anyone mentioned what I consider to be the biggest design flaw of all? Sunlight causes cancer. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2010, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-atheist-whats-the-problem/542025/56 "2010-06-05T18:00:01Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > DT, just from idle curiosity, what substance would you like our bones to be made from? Aluminum. ---
**Author:** ![Gustav](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/919ad9/32.png) [@Gustav](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gustav)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2010, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-atheist-whats-the-problem/542025/57 "2010-06-05T18:04:46Z")
An intelligent designer would just design a suitable substance. ---
**Author:** ![Hazle\_Weatherfield](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Hazle\_Weatherfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hazle_Weatherfield)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2010, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-atheist-whats-the-problem/542025/58 "2010-06-05T18:15:42Z")
> [@elbows](#): > > If there was a ‘designer’, where’d he go? Why’d he stop designing? What the hell? Just stopped by for 6 days of creating and then nothing for 2 millennium? > > If he’s so intelligent, how come, all this time later, no definitive proof has been found? I mean, we found proof of long gone civilizations, dinosaurs, quantum physics. I should think we’d have stumbled onto something, by this time. > > But no, the best we get is a wordy book of questionable veracity and blind faith. If there was an intelligent designer I should think he’d be appalled at what’s been done in his name. I should think he’d have been smart enough to keep cruel wars, persecution and such from being done in his name. **Elbows** , I’m really startin’ to dig your scene! ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2010, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-atheist-whats-the-problem/542025/59 "2010-06-05T18:34:07Z")
Does it say intelligent designer? Yes, if you want it to. But ,you have to want it to. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2010, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-atheist-whats-the-problem/542025/60 "2010-06-05T19:39:07Z")
> [@suranyi](#): > > I think the OP was a joke, which is why it was first posted in MPSIMS. People, don’t take it so seriously. > > ETA: That’s confirmed by all his subsequent responses: Definitely a joke. I guess it’s too easy to get people riled up here. I thought it was a drunken ramble, especially when I read post #2. Seemed like the idea of a shot glass was pretty much moot to him. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-atheist-whats-the-problem/542025.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-atheist-whats-the-problem/542025.md?page=4)