# Ok atheists, settle the fuck down. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 15, 2009, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-atheists-settle-the-fuck-down/481366 "2009-01-15T02:10:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2009, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-atheists-settle-the-fuck-down/481366/181 "2009-01-15T18:58:22Z")
> [@Captain\_Carrot](#): > > Yeah, atheists are the ones who are small minded. Remind me again who invented the “War on Christmas”? People who complained about religious celebrations in public. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2009, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-atheists-settle-the-fuck-down/481366/182 "2009-01-15T18:59:24Z")
> [@Lightnin](#): > > Not surprisingly, you didn’t really answer the question. You said, “…his moral philosophy will be intrinsically tied to his religious belief…” > > ARE you, in fact, saying that morals are directly related to religious belief? Yes, I am. Your moral philosophy will be one way if you are religious and another if you are not. Meet a lot of pro-life atheists in your travels? ---
**Author:** ![Lightnin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightnin/32/180_2.png) [@Lightnin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightnin)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2009, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-atheists-settle-the-fuck-down/481366/183 "2009-01-15T19:01:01Z")
> [@Algher](#): > > No - we live in a society where government isn’t supposed to interfere with religion. By allowing religion to interfere with government, you’re allowing government to interfere with religion. It’s not a difficult chain of reasoning. > [@Algher](#): > > Obama has every right to mention God when he takes the Oath. Why? What possible purpose can there be in adding “so help me God” to the oath, other than to appear pious? Does God only grant audible pleas? There’s no reason to include it, and plenty of reasons to NOT include it. ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2009, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-atheists-settle-the-fuck-down/481366/184 "2009-01-15T19:01:42Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > People who complained about religious celebrations in public. Bullshit and a half. It’s the people who freak out when someone says, “Happy Holidays” instead of “Merry Christmas.” Because woe to all of us if we don’t pander to their religious beliefs. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2009, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-atheists-settle-the-fuck-down/481366/185 "2009-01-15T19:02:36Z")
> [@Jack\_Batty](#): > > Bullshit and a half. > > It’s the people who freak out when someone says, “Happy Holidays” instead of “Merry Christmas.” Because woe to all of us if we don’t pander to their religious beliefs. Yes, that’s the opinion that confirms YOUR bias, to be certain. ---
**Author:** ![Lightnin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightnin/32/180_2.png) [@Lightnin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightnin)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2009, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-atheists-settle-the-fuck-down/481366/186 "2009-01-15T19:03:55Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > Yes, I am. Your moral philosophy will be one way if you are religious and another if you are not. > > Meet a lot of pro-life atheists in your travels? Yes, actually. I believe we might even have a few here on the 'Dope. Christians routinely lie, steal, murder, and cheat on their spouses. I don’t think your religion has as much influence on morals as you’d like to think. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Carrot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f0a364/32.png) [@Captain\_Carrot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Carrot)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2009, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-atheists-settle-the-fuck-down/481366/187 "2009-01-15T19:05:58Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > People who complained about religious celebrations in public. Bzzzt! No, sorry, the answer we were looking for was “Bill O’Reilly”. “Bill O’Reilly”. > [@mswas](#): > > Would you want to see that atheist politician succeed because he is an atheist? I would certainly be glad to some extent that someone overcame people’s prejudices. I was mildly happy for Bobby Jindal when he was elected governor of Louisiana, because getting people to vote for you in the South when you’re ugly and non-Caucasian can be pretty difficult. > [@mswas](#): > > I probably wouldn’t vote for a devout Muslim though. Why not? ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2009, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-atheists-settle-the-fuck-down/481366/188 "2009-01-15T19:08:28Z")
> [@Lightnin](#): > > Yes, actually. I believe we might even have a few here on the 'Dope. What percentage of atheists that you know would you say are Pro-Life? > [@](#): > > Christians routinely lie, steal, murder, and cheat on their spouses. I don’t think your religion has as much influence on morals as you’d like to think. That doesn’t matter because they would still tell you that those things are wrong, whether they do them or not. Arguing that you can’t trust anyone to be consistent in their beliefs isn’t a good line of reasoning here. People voted for Eliot Spitzer not knowing that he’d leave office in disgrace. We don’t vote for people based on what secrets they harbor in the dark of their hearts, we vote for them based on what they profess to believe. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2009, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-atheists-settle-the-fuck-down/481366/189 "2009-01-15T19:11:18Z")
> [@Captain\_Carrot](#): > > Bzzzt! No, sorry, the answer we were looking for was “Bill O’Reilly”. “Bill O’Reilly”. Ok, so you meant the slogan, and weren’t making a substantive comment about the actual cultural conflict. > [@](#): > > I would certainly be glad to some extent that someone overcame people’s prejudices. I was mildly happy for Bobby Jindal when he was elected governor of Louisiana, because getting people to vote for you in the South when you’re ugly and non-Caucasian can be pretty difficult. Agreed > [@](#): > > Why not? Because Islam is a totalitarian faith that doesn’t have within it the idea of a separation of powers between the religion and the state, and I don’t believe that Sharia is compatible with a Western style democracy. ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2009, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-atheists-settle-the-fuck-down/481366/190 "2009-01-15T19:11:22Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > Yes, that’s the opinion that confirms YOUR bias, to be certain. Listen, you incredible tool, people who complain about religious displays in public are addressing a very real issue that is adressed in the constitution. It has nothing to do with Christmas – it has to do with religion. The same arguments are routinely made about menorah’s in public. The same argument would be made if someone wanted to paint a big “Allah is the one true god, and Muhammed is his prophet” on the capitol building. The War on Christmas, which Bill O’Reilly may hold the trademark to, was waged specifically because narrow-minded fucknuggets got their panties in knot because someone had the temeritiy to say “Season’s Greetings” to them. ---
**Author:** ![Algher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Algher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Algher)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2009, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-atheists-settle-the-fuck-down/481366/191 "2009-01-15T19:11:48Z")
> [@Lightnin](#): > > By allowing religion to interfere with government, you’re allowing government to interfere with religion. It’s not a difficult chain of reasoning. Obama saying “So help me God” will have zero impact on my religious activities. If Leiberman would have become President (Or VP), it has no impact on my religious activities. My Jewish Senator has no impact on my religious activities. The Muslim congressman has not impact either (don’t remember his name\< not worth it to Google). Please - walk me through the chain of reasoning where Obama mentioning God on his inaguaration day is going to result in government interfering with religion. > [@Lightnin](#): > > Why? What possible purpose can there be in adding “so help me God” to the oath, other than to appear pious? Does God only grant audible pleas? There’s no reason to include it, and plenty of reasons to NOT include it. I have not asked Obama, so I can not answer for him. If I were to say an oath that mentioned God - it would be a reminder to me and an open pledge to others that I consider my oath to binding not just to the State (or my wife or the Marine Corps - two places where I cited God) - but that I also personally consider my oath to be something that fits with my religious beliefs and that I will follow due to my religious beliefs. Obama appears to be a spiritual man, and his campaign did not hide that fact. That is part of who he is. Newdow’s desire to FORCE Obama through the Courts to hide his religion, as if it is something to be ashamed of, is an attack on Obama’s First Amendment Right to be free to practice his religion. We, as a nation, elected a Christian man to the Presidency. He is not supposed to hide that for the next 4 years. He is not expected to forget everything about his religion for the next 4 years. He is not expected to never consider his beliefs for the next 4 years. He simply can not force the rest of us to join his church. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2009, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-atheists-settle-the-fuck-down/481366/192 "2009-01-15T19:13:07Z")
> [@Jack\_Batty](#): > > Listen, you incredible tool, people who complain about religious displays in public are addressing a very real issue that is adressed in the constitution. It has nothing to do with Christmas – it has to do with religion. The same arguments are routinely made about menorah’s in public. The same argument would be made if someone wanted to paint a big “Allah is the one true god, and Muhammed is his prophet” on the capitol building. Yea because hanging a wreath on the door at the DMV that opens up to the Menorah is the same as painting a religious slogan on the Capital. > [@](#): > > The War on Christmas, which Bill O’Reilly may hold the trademark to, was waged specifically because narrow-minded fucknuggets got their panties in knot because someone had the temeritiy to say “Season’s Greetings” to them. Yeah, I am sure that’s it. ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2009, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-atheists-settle-the-fuck-down/481366/193 "2009-01-15T19:13:39Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > Because Islam is a totalitarian faith that doesn’t have within it the idea of a separation of powers between the religion and the state, and I don’t believe that Sharia is compatible with a Western style democracy. …What? Are you saying Christianity _does_? ---
**Author:** ![Maeglin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8baadc/32.png) [@Maeglin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maeglin)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2009, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-atheists-settle-the-fuck-down/481366/194 "2009-01-15T19:15:00Z")
> [@LonesomePolecat](#): > > Because it indicates malicious small-mindedness that looks for petty excuses to take offense. Is this what you really think? That is quite sad. Personally, I just do not like to be reminded that I am excluded from the wider community. Public religious expression defines this community sharply and has always served this function. The Mass, or _Missa_, was the time when all of the catechumens were sent out of church so that the mysteries could be performed. Religious ceremony is the dividing line. In a community supposedly built on freedom and tolerance, being on the outside is genuinely unpleasant. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2009, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-atheists-settle-the-fuck-down/481366/195 "2009-01-15T19:15:12Z")
> [@Bosstone](#): > > …What? Are you saying Christianity _does_? Yes, as anyone who is familiar with the most elementary aspects of the argument is aware. ‘My Kingdom is not of this world.’ ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2009, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-atheists-settle-the-fuck-down/481366/196 "2009-01-15T19:16:18Z")
> [@Maeglin](#): > > Is this what you really think? That is quite sad. > > Personally, I just do not like to be reminded that I am excluded from the wider community. Public religious expression defines this community sharply and has always served this function. The Mass, or _Missa_, was the time when all of the catechumens were sent out of church so that the mysteries could be performed. Religious ceremony is the dividing line. In a community supposedly built on freedom and tolerance, being on the outside is genuinely unpleasant. Do you really feel that saying, “bless you”, is some sort of method of exclusion? I mean there is the reality that none of us is part of all aspects of the culture. ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2009, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-atheists-settle-the-fuck-down/481366/197 "2009-01-15T19:16:41Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > Yeah, I am sure that’s it. You should be. Somehow, I’m not convinced. ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2009, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-atheists-settle-the-fuck-down/481366/198 "2009-01-15T19:17:53Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > Yes, as anyone who is familiar with the most elementary aspects of the argument is aware. > > ‘My Kingdom is not of this world.’ Okay, yes, I remember now. Render unto Caesar and all that. Now, tell me, when do Christians start remembering that too? ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2009, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-atheists-settle-the-fuck-down/481366/199 "2009-01-15T19:17:58Z")
> [@Jack\_Batty](#): > > You should be. > Somehow, I’m not convinced. Just like a good culture warrior you are lockstep with the opinion that everyone holds…its the other guy’s fault. In that you are definitely part of the same wider culture as the Christian fundamentalist. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2009, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-atheists-settle-the-fuck-down/481366/200 "2009-01-15T19:18:59Z")
> [@Bosstone](#): > > Okay, yes, I remember now. Render unto Caesar and all that. > > Now, tell me, when do Christians start remembering that too? Are you worried that Obama is going to impose his religion on the state? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-atheists-settle-the-fuck-down/481366.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-atheists-settle-the-fuck-down/481366.md?page=11)