# Ok atheists, settle the fuck down. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 15, 2009, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-atheists-settle-the-fuck-down/481366 "2009-01-15T02:10:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 15
**Author:** ![Captain\_Carrot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f0a364/32.png) [@Captain\_Carrot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Carrot)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2009, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-atheists-settle-the-fuck-down/481366/281 "2009-01-15T22:36:21Z")
> [@Billy\_Baroo](#): > > PETA is radical because the situation has gone beyond politeness. PETA is radical because they’re a bunch of attention whores who would rather do ridiculous things ostensibly for the benefit of the animals than do calmer things that actually make people inclined to support them. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2009, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-atheists-settle-the-fuck-down/481366/282 "2009-01-15T22:37:11Z")
> [@Billy\_Baroo](#): > > I haven’t read the whole thread yet, but just a knee-jerk here… > > This is a hypocritical, logic-defying statement. The beef industry is relentlessly cruel on a monumental scale. > > PETA is radical because the situation has gone beyond politeness. Wow, I think this is the first guy who thought that was a crack against PETA. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2009, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-atheists-settle-the-fuck-down/481366/283 "2009-01-15T22:38:13Z")
_ **mswas** pets his sea-kitten_ ---
**Author:** ![Kyla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/eada6e/32.png) [@Kyla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kyla)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2009, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-atheists-settle-the-fuck-down/481366/284 "2009-01-15T22:49:44Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > Well, generally the left is antagonistic to Christianity. Tolerance isn’t about helping as much as it is about not hindering. Plenty of Christians are liberals. I have a few (okay, three that I can think of) friends that are devout Christians and also liberals who support gay rights and a secular government > [@](#): > > People bitch about Christian proselytization, but it’s usually the same people who like to berate people for believing. IE, they want Christians to be atheists. This is totally untrue. I hate proselytizing no matter who is doing. I _especially_ hate **Der Trihs** version of proselytizing, ie, berating everyone who doesn’t agree with him. It’s cringeworthy. Check out any thread where he does this and you’ll see that inevitably his posts are followed by multitudes of atheists telling him to shut up. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2009, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-atheists-settle-the-fuck-down/481366/285 "2009-01-15T22:51:28Z")
> [@Kyla](#): > > Plenty of Christians are liberals. I have a few (okay, three that I can think of) friends that are devout Christians and also liberals who support gay rights and a secular government Yes, as do I. > [@](#): > > This is totally untrue. I hate proselytizing no matter who is doing. I _especially_ hate **Der Trihs** version of proselytizing, ie, berating everyone who doesn’t agree with him. It’s cringeworthy. Check out any thread where he does this and you’ll see that inevitably his posts are followed by multitudes of atheists telling him to shut up. I must have missed the throngs. ---
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2009, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-atheists-settle-the-fuck-down/481366/286 "2009-01-15T22:53:59Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > Claiming expression of philosophy in literature and media is an aspect of culture is the same thing as a paranoid conspiracy? > > Umm, we are talking about ‘subcultures’ here, of which atheists and Christians are opposing subcultures of American culture. Other than that I have no idea what the hell you’re talking about. You posted this: > [@mswas](#): > > There is atheist culture and there is a gay agenda. > > The fact of the matter is the culture of America has changed a great deal since the 1960s. There is a lowering of standards, crude jokes on television, child pornography on billboards. It’s not imaginary. Arguing about whether it’s a concern one should care about is one thing, but I’m not interested in an argument that states that it’s imaginary, because it’s not. So, your evidence for the existence of “atheist culture” (and possibly also a “gay agenda”) is the existence of crude jokes on television and underwear advertisements on billboards, i.e., “atheists control the world!” I suppose we also run the International Banks, eh? Later, you sort of backpedal and give as examples of “atheist culture” a bunch of things actually written by atheists (and which, whatever they may say on the cover, probably mostly wind up being _for_ atheists as well. Of course, those particular books and movies and websites being atheistic, for that very reason they are rejected or ignored by most Americans.) Nonetheless, your first example of “atheist culture” was to blame the “lowering of standards” in American culture “since the 1960s” on us all-powerful atheists. Personally, I’d love to take credit, on behalf of atheists, for ending Jim Crow, for the rise of women’s equality, for the end of repressive laws against “sodomy”, for gay rights, for a broadly more open society when it comes to freedom of speech and expression, and for a society that is generally more respectful of those who differ from the mainstream of American thought. But that would be really stupid and obviously untrue, since we atheists don’t actually control American culture in general. (Neither do the Jews, FYI.) Rather, the liberalization of American culture has resulted (among other things) in atheists being more free to publicly express themselves–not, the atheization of American culture has resulted in its being more liberal. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2009, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-atheists-settle-the-fuck-down/481366/287 "2009-01-15T23:03:45Z")
> [@artemis](#): > > I am simply recognizing the meaning that is there. “In God We Trust” - well, no, _we_ don’t. Some of us believe in God (although there’s considerable disagreement about His attributes among this subset of Americans). Some of us believe in Gods (plural). Some of us believe in a Goddess. Some of us don’t believe there are any supernatural beings. A good, patriotic American can believe in any of those things. There’s nothing neutral about that statement on our money; to pretend it isn’t a divisive statement is to be willfully blind. Hmm, well to me it’s trivial. Maybe it’s important to you. Ultimately, your cash is as green as mine. The reality though is that it’s an insult to Christians too as it’s blasphemous, just not too many understand their religion well enough. > [@](#): > > “So Help Me God” - again, just _why_ is the Chief Justice going to insert this phrase into the wording of the Presidential oath of office? It’s not included in the official wording of the oath as stated in the Constitution. It’s not a statement that everyone who might be elected to the office of President should feel obligated to repeat. What exactly is its purpose there? Why deliberately insert a divisive phrase into an otherwise neutral oath? It is meaningful to those who are religious, which the President-Elect is. > [@](#): > > It’s long past time to retire ceremonial Christianity to the dustbin of history. This country is a religious plurality; we can no longer assume that all _real_ Americans are monotheistic, much less Protestant (which is the real underlying assumption behind ceremonial Deism). The alternative will be refighting the 30 Year’s War, and I for one don’t think that will be much fun at all. Eh, I think that’s a bit paranoid. Mostly i think it’s a cultural accretion that won’t matter to most people in a few years. Hell doesn’t matter to most people now. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2009, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-atheists-settle-the-fuck-down/481366/288 "2009-01-15T23:10:06Z")
> [@MEBuckner](#): > > You posted this: > So, your evidence for the existence of “atheist culture” (and possibly also a “gay agenda”) is the existence of crude jokes on television and underwear advertisements on billboards, i.e., “atheists control the world!” I suppose we also run the International Banks, eh? Holy false equivalence Batman. Besides everyone knows the Jews run the banks. Atheists are just destroying morality. > [@](#): > > Later, you sort of backpedal and give as examples of “atheist culture” a bunch of things actually written by atheists (and which, whatever they may say on the cover, probably mostly wind up being _for_ atheists as well. Of course, those particular books and movies and websites being atheistic, for that very reason they are rejected or ignored by most Americans.) I didn’t backpedal, you just extrapolated a whole bunch of bullshit and call it back-pedaling when my real opinion is inconsistent with your imagination. So you hold a non-mainstream belief, boo-fucking-hoo. > [@](#): > > Nonetheless, your first example of “atheist culture” was to blame the “lowering of standards” in American culture “since the 1960s” on us all-powerful atheists. No actually it was a reference to the decline of Christian culture. > [@](#): > > Personally, I’d love to take credit, on behalf of atheists, for ending Jim Crow, Yeah, Christians and Jews had a lot more to do with Civil Rights than atheists. > [@](#): > > for the rise of women’s equality, for the end of repressive laws against “sodomy”, for gay rights, for a broadly more open society when it comes to freedom of speech and expression, and for a society that is generally more respectful of those who differ from the mainstream of American thought. But that would be really stupid and obviously untrue, since we atheists don’t actually control American culture in general. (Neither do the Jews, FYI.) Rather, the liberalization of American culture has resulted (among other things) in atheists being more free to publicly express themselves–not, the atheization of American culture has resulted in its being more liberal. The point is that Christians see the loss of their moral culture as a decline into atheism. It’s a totalitarian belief system where yuo either take the full spectrum of morality or you don’t, you can’t take it piecemeal. There is some evidence for this decline, such as sexualizing young girls in order to sell other young girls products that make them look like whores so that they can be cooler and have more premarital sex. That is certainly a decline in Christian culture. You might agree with it, but that doesn’t make the Christians delusional who call it as they see it. Do you understand what I’m saying or are yuo just going to randomly cherry-pick my posts and eliminate context some more? ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Ashtar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ea924/32.png) [@Lord\_Ashtar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Ashtar)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2009, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-atheists-settle-the-fuck-down/481366/289 "2009-01-15T23:18:39Z")
I’m still working my way through this thread (about half way through page 5 now), but I just want to comment on the whole “have a blessed day” thing. I find it interesting how some are claiming that it’s a religious litmus test or an attempt to force one’s beliefs on something else. This conversation brought to memory a sermon from when I was a kid about how in addition to asking God to bless us and others, we ourselves were to bless God. This made me say to myself, “How can a person bless God? Isn’t that something only He can do?” This triggered me to look up the definition of bless. So I mosey on over to [dictionary.com](http://dictionary.com) and find that, while the first definitions tend to be about holy rites and whatnot, there is always another definition similar to this one: “to bestow good of any kind upon: \*a nation blessed with peace. \*”. I really, truly do not see how anyone can be offended by this. It really is just another way of saying “Have a nice day” or “Okay, hey, take it easy”. Seriously, lighten the fuck up. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2009, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-atheists-settle-the-fuck-down/481366/290 "2009-01-15T23:20:40Z")
> [@Rubystreak](#): > > [Yes, you have.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=10197255&postcount=211) You should apologize to Jack Batty now, but I’m sure you’ll weasel out of it somehow. A simple explanation will do with no weaseling required, as even you seem to be aware - in that dim chamber you call a mind - of the fact that you’re grasping at straws here and skating on extremely thin ice indeed (how’s that for a mixed metaphor) in your attempt to allege that I’ve called liberals evil at least once in my 6,600+ post posting history. The fact of the matter, as you should well know, is that I was responding to the meme that was taking hold around here that anyone voting Republican in the upcoming election was evil, myself included. I responded by saying that if anyone could be called evil, it would be you guys and I outlined the reasons why. I also stated in that or a similar thread that I had long declined to outline my thoughts in this regard because I felt it would be hitting below the belt (with the implication being that the harmful results of liberalism that have occurred in this country have not been intentional), and that I was only doing so now in order to counter the egregious claim of: Vote Republican=EEVIL. Further, and perhaps you missed it at the end of the post you linked to, but I ended it by saying: \*"So which side has caused greater pain and suffering and harm to society over the last 40 years? I’m gonna go with you guys, but I’m not gonna call you EVIL. Because that’s stupid."\* > [@Jack Batty](#): > > For the record, I was not actually accusing of Starving Artist of calling liberals “evil”, not literally. I wasn’t searching for quotes. It’s just a bit of rhetoric. > [@Rubystreak](#): > > But of course, he takes you literally and argues about semantics… BWAHAHAHAHA!!! So now it’s “semantics” - a mere “rhetorical” device. Where I come from claiming people said things they didn’t in order to make them look bad to others is called a lie. How nice it must be to be your type of liberal (see, **Zoe** , I’m trying to differentiate) and live in a world where words have no true meaning. > [@Rubystreak](#): > > Also, polite, civil folks should offer an apology when they’re wrong, even if the other person doesn’t need one. It’s just common courtesy. I agree wholeheartedly, thus, in light of my explanation and the fact that even some of those normally in agreement with you regarding my posts have told you that you were on thin ice here to begin with, I’ll anticipate accepting your apology as graciously as you will surely offer it. ---
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2009, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-atheists-settle-the-fuck-down/481366/291 "2009-01-15T23:22:54Z")
Basically, **mswas** , you’re so fucking incoherent that it’s very difficult to have any kind of meaningful discussion with you. But if a bunch of Christians think that the moral behavior of a bunch of _other Christians_ has something to do with “atheism”, then yes, that’s pretty delusional of them. And if an incoherent theistic hippy (or whatever the fuck it is that you are) agrees with those Christians, then that would make you delusional too. ---
**Author:** ![Rubystreak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Rubystreak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rubystreak)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2009, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-atheists-settle-the-fuck-down/481366/292 "2009-01-15T23:30:58Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > A simple explanation will do, with no weaseling required as even you seem to be aware, in that dim chamber you call a mind, of the fact that you’re grasping at straws here and are skating on extremely thin ice indeed (how’s that for a mixed metaphor) in your attempt to allege that I’ve called liberals evil at least once in my 6,600+ post posting history. I don’t know, SA. Accusing liberals of causing millions of deaths and ruining American society is not de facto calling them evil? Really? But actually, you said it anyway, and I posted the quote. The facts speak for themselves. No need for you to repeat what you said in the post that I quoted. I quoted it, so I already know what it said, and in fact, I could have written your post back to me pretty much verbatim. Weaseling, par for the course. And of course, you always rise to the bait anytime I criticize you. You are so much fun! > [@](#): > > So now it’s “semantics” - a mere “rhetorical” device. Yes. Listing a whole bunch of evils (entirely cite free, fact free list) that you claim are the fault of liberals, but at the end saying, “Well, if I WERE going to call someone evil, it would be YOU, but I WON’T 'cuz that’s STUPID” is a rhetorical device. You did exactly what you said you were not going to do. You do it regularly. Jack Batty was using shorthand when he said that you think liberals are evil, and you called him a liar for it. Not really fair of you. > [@](#): > > I agree wholeheartedly, thus, in light of my explanation and the fact that even some of those normally in agreement with you regarding my posts have told you that you were on thin ice here to begin with, I’ll anticipate accepting your apology as graciously as you will surely offer it. I’m on thin ice? What kind of thin ice do you think I’m on? Take a survey and see how many people reading your posts think that you irrationally hate liberals and believe they are evil. I think you’ve given many people the impression that’s what you believe. Whether or not you have actually said that specific sequence of words, that is the intent behind all your posts on the topic. We can even disregard the fact that you DID say it if you like. Doesn’t erase that your meaning comes across loud and clear, no matter how much quibbling, semantic hair splitting, and weaseling you want to do. You are just as guilty of demonizing your enemy as you claim your enemy is. You are not on higher ground because you haven’t come out and said YOU ARE EVIL. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2009, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-atheists-settle-the-fuck-down/481366/293 "2009-01-15T23:32:31Z")
> [@MEBuckner](#): > > Basically, **mswas** , you’re so fucking incoherent that it’s very difficult to have any kind of meaningful discussion with you. Others seemed to be able to keep more than one concept in their minds at a time ok. > [@](#): > > But if a bunch of Christians think that the moral behavior of a bunch of _other Christians_ has something to do with “atheism”, then yes, that’s pretty delusional of them. And if an incoherent theistic hippy (or whatever the fuck it is that you are) agrees with those Christians, then that would make you delusional too. Yeah, you’re missing the point entirely. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2009, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-atheists-settle-the-fuck-down/481366/294 "2009-01-16T00:12:48Z")
> [@Rubystreak](#): > > I don’t know, SA. Accusing liberals of causing millions of deaths and ruining American society is not de facto calling them evil? Really? Nope, because there was not evil intent - just like voting Republican does not signify evil intent. > [@Rubystreak](#): > > The facts speak for themselves. Indeed they do, and you’re not looking too good as a result. > [@Rubystreak](#): > > And of course, you always rise to the bait anytime I criticize you. Well, we wouldn’t want anyone to be left with the impression that you were correct, would we? > [@Rubystreak](#): > > You are so much fun! Thank you, darling. (Oh, btw, you never did answer when I asked if you were busy that weekend.) 😉 > [@Rubystreak](#): > > Yes. Listing a whole bunch of evils (entirely cite free, fact free list) that you claim are the fault of liberals… No, I listed harmful consequences. You are the one who has labeled them as evils. > [@Rubystreak](#): > > …but at the end saying, “Well, if I WERE going to call someone evil, it would be YOU, but I WON’T 'cuz that’s STUPID” is a rhetorical device. You did exactly what you said you were not going to do. You do it regularly. Jack Batty was using shorthand when he said that you think liberals are evil, and you called him a liar for it. Not really fair of you. No, the unfairness lies with you, I’m afraid. I did not claim that calling liberals evil was stupid in order to obliquely do just that; I claimed it in order to show that calling Republican voters evil was just as stupid as it would be for me to call liberals evil based on the harmful consequences that I listed. Which it is. > [@Rubystreak](#): > > I’m on thin ice? What kind of thin ice do you think I’m on? Take a survey and see how many people reading your posts think that you irrationally hate liberals and believe they are evil. Whether or not you have actually said that specific sequence of words, that is the intent behind all your posts on the topic. We can even disregard the fact that you DID say it if you like. Doesn’t erase that your meaning comes across loud and clear, no matter how much quibbling, semantic hair splitting, and weaseling you want to do. You are just as guilty of demonizing your enemy as you claim your enemy is. You are not on higher ground because you haven’t come out and said YOU ARE EVIL. I’m going to tell you something that might come as a big surprise to you, Rubystreak. The fact of the matter is that I regard very, very few people as truly evil. My father pointed out to me when I was young that even people who most other people think are bad don’t think of themselves as bad and they usually feel they have good reasons for what they do. I think that people do bad things, and I think that sometimes people do very bad things that even they know are wrong, but I don’t attribute that behavior to evil. I reserve the word ‘evil’ to certain specific people and circumstances just like I reserve the word ‘hate’ for certain people and certain circumstances. They aren’t words I throw around willy-nilly, they aren’t words that I ascribe to large groups of people, and as a matter of fact, they aren’t words that come to my mind very readily at all. You could almost say I don’t believe there is any such thing as evil, but then someone like Paul Bernardo (Wiki him if you wish) comes along and gives me pause. So you see, what you are guilty of here is projection. I’ve never thought liberals were evil. The thought has never even crossed my mind…other than as a rebuttal to the ridiculous claim that no one could possibly vote Republican unless they were evil to begin with, that is. ---
**Author:** ![Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/brown_eyed_girl/32/3574_2.png) [@Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brown_Eyed_Girl)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2009, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-atheists-settle-the-fuck-down/481366/295 "2009-01-16T00:15:25Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > Cultural assault on Christian values, the abandonment of them specifically. Are you confusing secular with atheist? Still wondering how this relates to atheism. Where’s the atheist message in Baby Phat billboards? ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Carrot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f0a364/32.png) [@Captain\_Carrot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Carrot)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2009, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-atheists-settle-the-fuck-down/481366/296 "2009-01-16T00:16:47Z")
> [@Starving Artist](#): > > No, I listed harmful consequences. You are the one who has labeled them as evils. Yes, such a huge leap there. :rolleyes: I notice you didn’t rebut her saying that you had absolutely no evidence for any of the ‘harmful consequences’ being the result of liberal . . .well, anything. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2009, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-atheists-settle-the-fuck-down/481366/297 "2009-01-16T00:18:50Z")
> [@Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](#): > > Are you confusing secular with atheist? Still wondering how this relates to atheism. Where’s the atheist message in Baby Phat billboards? They see it as a decline toward atheism. I’m sorry if the basic fundamentals of the debate are so foreign to you that I have to explain it over and over again. ---
**Author:** ![Rubystreak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Rubystreak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rubystreak)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2009, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-atheists-settle-the-fuck-down/481366/298 "2009-01-16T00:35:51Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > So you see, what you are guilty of here is projection. I’ve never thought liberals were evil. The thought has never even crossed my mind…other than as a rebuttal to the ridiculous claim that no one could possibly vote Republican unless they were evil to begin with, that is. What exactly am I projecting? I don’t think conservatives are evil. I don’t think you really know what the word “projection” means. You are quibbling now about the definition of the word “evil.” You only use it for people like Paul Bernardo. Others use it hyperbolically to describe Republican voters, or how they feel about being made to eat liver by their mom, or -10 degree weather. Do you take them literally when they do that, just as you took Jack Batty literally? OK, when YOU use it, you only use it to mean serial killers. But you know damn well what he meant, and you know what I mean. Let me put it to you this way. If you said to a woman, “If I were to call anyone a bitch, it would be you, but I don’t call women bitches, because that’s a bad word,” would you be surprised if she got offended and angry? And would you feel you didn’t deserve it? Just try, for one second, standing on the other side of one of your screeds. You can make the semantic argument all you want, but your sentiments are clear. You are only denying it to claim the illusory high ground. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2009, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-atheists-settle-the-fuck-down/481366/299 "2009-01-16T00:38:42Z")
> [@Captain\_Carrot](#): > > Yes, such a huge leap there. :rolleyes: I notice you didn’t rebut her saying that you had absolutely no evidence for any of the ‘harmful consequences’ being the result of liberal . . .well, anything. The evidence is all around us, at every turn. Look at the way people think, act, talk and dress today, the way they behave in traffic, the behavior encouraged by rap music and other forms of entertainment, the number of abortions and STDs, and the biggest, most harmful aspects of all, drug use and its concomitant crime, death and misery. These things most surely have not flourished the fifty years because of conservative politics. If you don’t think they’re a result of the permissiveness advocated and promoted by the left over the last fifty years, I’d be very interested in hearing just what it is that you do attribute them to (assuming of course that you even regard them as problems, which, as a liberal, I realize you may very well not). I won’t even make bogus cite demands, as I am willing, unlike some of my opponents around here, to acknowledge that definitive cites do not exist. So, just counter my uncited beliefs and observations with those of your own. (And I don’t mean recite a litany of what is wrong with conservatism; I mean show me how the problems I listed came into being if not as a result of liberal ideology and permissiveness, if you can.) I’ll be anxiously awaiting your response. ---
**Author:** ![Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/brown_eyed_girl/32/3574_2.png) [@Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brown_Eyed_Girl)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2009, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-atheists-settle-the-fuck-down/481366/300 "2009-01-16T00:41:44Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > They see it as a decline toward atheism. I’m sorry if the basic fundamentals of the debate are so foreign to you that I have to explain it over and over again. It’s confusing perhaps because the woman behind Baby Phat, Kimora Lee Simmons (I don’t know if you’ve ever watched her show), is not an atheist. [QUOTE=Kimora Lee Simmons] Hard work, dedication, perseverance — God. Really, God. It’s by the grace of God that I’m not homeless on the street. [/QUOTE] Could it be perhaps that you may be a bit more Victorian than much of current society? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-atheists-settle-the-fuck-down/481366.md?page=14) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-atheists-settle-the-fuck-down/481366.md?page=16)