# Ok atheists, settle the fuck down. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 15, 2009, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-atheists-settle-the-fuck-down/481366 "2009-01-15T02:10:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/brown_eyed_girl/32/3574_2.png) [@Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brown_Eyed_Girl)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2009, 5:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-atheists-settle-the-fuck-down/481366/41 "2009-01-15T05:23:15Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > It’s always odd to me how hostile people are to religious expressions. I mean why is a cultural well wish so nasty? Why is it so shocking that some people find religious expressions distasteful? ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2009, 5:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-atheists-settle-the-fuck-down/481366/42 "2009-01-15T05:25:12Z")
> [@Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](#): > > Why is it so shocking that some people find religious expressions distasteful? Well when I go amidst a culture that is not my own I generally don’t get pissed off when someone says their cultural version of, “Have a nice day.” It’s just odd to me that it’s so hateful to some people. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2009, 5:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-atheists-settle-the-fuck-down/481366/43 "2009-01-15T05:28:22Z")
> [@Anaamika](#): > > Pretty much ditto. And I’m a fairly strong atheist. And as an occasionally strong, but usually couldn’t care less, agnostic I lost interest at post #5. (we still don’t have an “indifferent shrug” smilie?) ---
**Author:** ![Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/brown_eyed_girl/32/3574_2.png) [@Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brown_Eyed_Girl)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2009, 5:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-atheists-settle-the-fuck-down/481366/44 "2009-01-15T05:30:59Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > Well when I go amidst a culture that is not my own I generally don’t get pissed off when someone says their cultural version of, “Have a nice day.” > > It’s just odd to me that it’s so hateful to some people. Except that blessings are not so much cultural for a non-religious person as they are religious. Further, while they may be an alternative to “have a nice day” they aren’t just “have a nice day.” How exactly is a blessing in any way meaningful to a non-religious person as a nice day is? ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2009, 5:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-atheists-settle-the-fuck-down/481366/45 "2009-01-15T05:34:09Z")
> [@Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](#): > > Except that blessings are not so much cultural for a non-religious person as they are religious. Further, while they may be an alternative to “have a nice day” they aren’t just “have a nice day.” How exactly is a blessing in any way meaningful to a non-religious person as a nice day is? How is, ‘have a nice day’ meaningful to a person who doesn’t speak English? It’s a generic well wish. If someone said, “Namaste”, would that bother you? ---
**Author:** ![Nzinga\_Seated](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b5ac83/32.png) [@Nzinga\_Seated](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nzinga_Seated)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2009, 5:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-atheists-settle-the-fuck-down/481366/46 "2009-01-15T05:38:39Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > If someone said, “Namaste”, would that bother you? I don’t use that greeting. Where I am from, we just say ‘Peace’ and it actually means the exact same thing. But that is my favorite greeting ever. Love it when someone says Namaste to me. Hey, I am always surprised when atheists get all touchy about this stuff. I thought they were the cool cats, and the Christians were the cornballs that get all uptight about this stuff. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2009, 5:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-atheists-settle-the-fuck-down/481366/47 "2009-01-15T05:41:22Z")
According to Wiki Namaste means: “The light in me honors the light in you,” or literally: “I bow to you”. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2009, 5:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-atheists-settle-the-fuck-down/481366/48 "2009-01-15T05:43:42Z")
> [@Kyla](#): > > Seriously? > > Note to self: don’t move to Paris, Texas. I had a woman wish me a blessed day in San Francisco last week. I was taking pictures in the Botanical Gardens, and she stopped to ask what i was shooting. We chatted for a while about the hummingbirds, the flowers, and the weather, then she wished me a blessed day as we parted. I’m an atheist. I tend to think of all religious belief as irrational. But i really can’t get worked up when someone says something nice to me, even if the pleasantry is rooted in a belief system i don’t subscribe to. If she had followed up her words with an exhortation to take Jesus as my lord and savior, i might have been unamused, but she didn’t, and all in all it just seemed like an everyday salutation to me. ETA: As for the OP, i’d be very happy to have God removed from the currency, and from the Pledge of Allegiance. If they could get moving on the Pledge quickly, so it’s gone by the time i become a US citizen, that would be good. ---
**Author:** ![Nzinga\_Seated](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b5ac83/32.png) [@Nzinga\_Seated](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nzinga_Seated)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2009, 5:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-atheists-settle-the-fuck-down/481366/49 "2009-01-15T05:46:24Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > According to Wiki Namaste means: “The light in me honors the light in you,” or literally: “I bow to you”. Yeah, I know what it means. I mean, I actually thought it meant the god in me acknowledges the god in you, but close enough. Me and my associates say ‘peace’ when we greet and when we part. Even when we answer the phone. Peace is from Hetep, which was an ancient Egyptian word which meant literally a serving mat, but figuratively, Peace and Heaven. We use it to acknowledge the ‘god’ in eachother. But enough with my rambling hijacks, I swear, I just can’t help it when it gets past midnight. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2009, 5:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-atheists-settle-the-fuck-down/481366/50 "2009-01-15T05:50:05Z")
If y’all wanted to remove the pledge as whole along with the ‘under God’ bit, I’d be with you 100%. It’s a bunch of nationalist bullshit. I see no reason to focus on it. As it is the religious bits on the money is funny because it should offend Christians too. Mixing God and Mammon and all that. To me I could care less either way. It’s like so-called ‘Junk DNA’ left over in our cultural matrix. Nzinga: Sounds nice. I just try to adapt to the people around me. ---
**Author:** ![Nzinga\_Seated](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b5ac83/32.png) [@Nzinga\_Seated](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nzinga_Seated)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2009, 5:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-atheists-settle-the-fuck-down/481366/51 "2009-01-15T05:55:15Z")
mswas, to be clear, I was agreeing with you on this. I meant that it is odd to me that atheists get upset about things like ‘so help me God’ when I thought they were above all that nonsense. Just look at it for what it is and ignore it. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2009, 5:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-atheists-settle-the-fuck-down/481366/52 "2009-01-15T05:56:17Z")
> [@Nzinga\_Seated](#): > > mswas, to be clear, I was agreeing with you on this. I meant that it is odd to me that atheists get upset about things like ‘so help me God’ when I thought they were above all that nonsense. Just look at it for what it is and ignore it. Yes, I understood you. ---
**Author:** ![SSG\_Schwartz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@SSG\_Schwartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SSG_Schwartz)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2009, 5:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-atheists-settle-the-fuck-down/481366/53 "2009-01-15T05:59:33Z")
> [@Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](#): > > Except that blessings are not so much cultural for a non-religious person as they are religious. Further, while they may be an alternative to “have a nice day” they aren’t just “have a nice day.” How exactly is a blessing in any way meaningful to a non-religious person as a nice day is? It also makes an assumption about my beliefs. I object to that more than anything. How about if the cashier returned my change with, “Meat is murder,” and a sunshine smile on her face. Or let us say that someone tells racist jokes in front of you. Hell, it is only a way to break the ice with people you don’t know, and the jokes must be funny, or they would not be being told. But I am hijacking too much. I fight my fight on a personal level, and I think the OP was on a national level. SSG Schwartz ---
**Author:** ![Kyla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/eada6e/32.png) [@Kyla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kyla)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2009, 6:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-atheists-settle-the-fuck-down/481366/54 "2009-01-15T06:02:25Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > Well when I go amidst a culture that is not my own I generally don’t get pissed off when someone says their cultural version of, “Have a nice day.” > > It’s just odd to me that it’s so hateful to some people. It bothers me because as an American, I am supposedly part of the same culture. Every time someone - like George Bush Sr. - says that atheists aren’t real Americans, it makes me furious. It’s just another way we are alienated and made to feel like we don’t count as much. I try to avoid making culturally biased comments to strangers because I don’t know their own beliefs and cultures and I don’t want to offend them. But if someone starts wishing me a blessed day, obviously they aren’t extending me that same courtesy. Don’t get me wrong, I don’t think I’m horribly oppressed or anything like that, I just have no desire to live in the Bible Belt. Oh, and if I’m in, say, Nepal, and someone says “Namaste”, I’d say it right back to them. I would be a guest in their country and show all appropriate courtesy. But here in America, I would like to be treated as an equal. ---
**Author:** ![Nzinga\_Seated](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b5ac83/32.png) [@Nzinga\_Seated](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nzinga_Seated)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2009, 6:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-atheists-settle-the-fuck-down/481366/55 "2009-01-15T06:03:33Z")
> [@SSG\_Schwartz](#): > > How about if the cashier returned my change with, “Meat is murder,” and a sunshine smile on her face. SSG Schwartz Haa! Even if you aren’t buying meat. Funny. But Kyla, you must know that George Bush Sr. can’t tell you that you do or don’t count. I mean, it is not atheists that I typically think of when I think of people feeling all sensitive to someone ‘making them feel as if they don’t count.’ Get your head up and overlook that stuff, right? You are supposed to have reason on your side, after all. ---
**Author:** ![Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/brown_eyed_girl/32/3574_2.png) [@Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brown_Eyed_Girl)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2009, 6:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-atheists-settle-the-fuck-down/481366/56 "2009-01-15T06:06:06Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > According to Wiki Namaste means: “The light in me honors the light in you,” or literally: “I bow to you”. Sounds like it doesn’t invoke some divine being, but rather celebrates the good in mankind. Not annoying in the least and used so rarely, kind of refreshing, even. It even kind of sounds respectful as in “I respect you,” as opposed to “Let my God determine your daily experience.” [QUOTE=mswas] How is, ‘have a nice day’ meaningful to a person who doesn’t speak English? It’s a generic well wish. [/QUOTE] I don’t know, is that a problem where you live? It isn’t meaningful, I suppose; it’s not even communication, though either. So, why bother blessing someone if it’s not meaningful? So you can feel righteous? That’s not self-serving much. You may as well say to me, “I hope you don’t trip over your shoelaces,” regardless of the fact I’m wearing clogs. After all, ya gotta love meaningless platitudes. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2009, 6:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-atheists-settle-the-fuck-down/481366/57 "2009-01-15T06:06:39Z")
> [@Kyla](#): > > It bothers me because as an American, I am supposedly part of the same culture. Every time someone - like George Bush Sr. - says that atheists aren’t real Americans, it makes me furious. It’s just another way we are alienated and made to feel like we don’t count as much. I try to avoid making culturally biased comments to strangers because I don’t know their own beliefs and cultures and I don’t want to offend them. But if someone starts wishing me a blessed day, obviously they aren’t extending me that same courtesy. You are not respecting people’s culture though. You are saying that they should keep it under wraps. You are a part of this culture, but what you are saying is that people should keep outward expressions of who they are to themselves. > [@](#): > > Don’t get me wrong, I don’t think I’m horribly oppressed or anything like that, I just have no desire to live in the Bible Belt. Heh, well neither do I. > [@](#): > > Oh, and if I’m in, say, Nepal, and someone says “Namaste”, I’d say it right back to them. I would be a guest in their country and show all appropriate courtesy. But here in America, I would like to be treated as an equal. I still don’t see how saying ‘Bless you’ or some variant doesn’t treat you as an equal. ---
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2009, 6:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-atheists-settle-the-fuck-down/481366/58 "2009-01-15T06:07:15Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > As for the OP, i’d be very happy to have God removed from the currency, and from the Pledge of Allegiance. If they could get moving on the Pledge quickly, so it’s gone by the time i become a US citizen, that would be good. Well, you won’t actually have to say the Pledge of Allegiance to become a U.S. citizen. No one but school kids (and maybe grandstanding politicians) actually says the Pledge of Allegiance. By Pledge of Allegiance I mean the one that goes “I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.” Someone seeking to become a naturalized citizen has to take the [oath of allegiance](http://www.uscis.gov/propub/ProPubVAP.jsp?dockey=71da1e6f9db8abdddfdde32de82df57f) (otherwise known as the [oath of renunciation and allegiance](http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode08/usc_sec_08_00001448----000-.html)). The text of the oath of allegiance is: > [@](#): > > I hereby declare, on oath, that I absolutely and entirely renounce and abjure all allegiance and fidelity to any foreign prince, potentate, state, or sovereignty, of whom or which I have heretofore been a subject or citizen; > > that I will support and defend the Constitution and laws of the United States of America against all enemies, foreign and domestic; > > that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; > > that I will bear arms on behalf of the United States when required by the law; > > that I will perform noncombatant service in the Armed Forces of the United States when required by the law; > > that I will perform work of national importance under civilian direction when required by the law; and > > that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; so help me God. As the manual goes on to note > [@](#): > > Some applicants who, “by reason of religious training and belief (or individual interpretation thereof), or for other reasons of good conscience” cannot take the oath with the words “on oath,” and “so help me God” included. In these cases, the words “solemnly affirm” shall be substituted for the words “on oath,” and the words “so help me God” shall be deleted. See 8 CFR 337.1(b). This modification may be granted upon the applicant’s request. Applicants are not required to provide documentary evidence or extensive testimony to support a request for this type of modification. So, once again, atheists are actually reasonably well accomodated, but another great big “Fuck you!” from the federal government to pagans or polytheists or other sincerely religious people who wish to become good citizens without either swearing by the Judeo-Christian God or making a secular “affirmation”. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2009, 6:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-atheists-settle-the-fuck-down/481366/59 "2009-01-15T06:08:50Z")
> [@Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](#): > > Sounds like it doesn’t invoke some divine being, but rather celebrates the good in mankind. Not annoying in the least and used so rarely, kind of refreshing, even. It even kind of sounds respectful as in “I respect you,” as opposed to “Let my God determine your daily experience.” I see your point, though I don’t think there is light literally inside of you. Generally such expressions are inherently religious in nature. > [@](#): > > I don’t know, is that a problem where you live? It isn’t meaningful, I suppose; it’s not even communication, though either. So, why bother blessing someone if it’s not meaningful? So you can feel righteous? That’s not self-serving much. You may as well say to me, “I hope you don’t trip over your shoelaces,” regardless of the fact I’m wearing clogs. It’s still common to parts of this nation and to some people. Not everyone sees it as strange. > [@](#): > > After all, ya gotta love meaningless platitudes. I’m far more bothered by, “How are you?”, and then not listening to the answer. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2009, 6:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-atheists-settle-the-fuck-down/481366/60 "2009-01-15T06:10:34Z")
> [@MEBuckner](#): > > So, once again, atheists are actually reasonably well accomodated, but another great big **“Fuck you!” from the federal government to pagans or polytheists or other sincerely religious people who wish to become good citizens without either swearing by the Judeo-Christian God or making a secular “affirmation”.** :dubious: [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-atheists-settle-the-fuck-down/481366.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-atheists-settle-the-fuck-down/481366.md?page=4)