# Ok atheists, settle the fuck down. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 15, 2009, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-atheists-settle-the-fuck-down/481366 "2009-01-15T02:10:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Lightnin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightnin/32/180_2.png) [@Lightnin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightnin)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2009, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-atheists-settle-the-fuck-down/481366/141 "2009-01-15T18:02:16Z")
> [@Sarahfeena](#): > > If future presidential hopefuls take it that way, that’s their problem. Wrong. It’s OUR problem. ---
**Author:** ![Lightnin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightnin/32/180_2.png) [@Lightnin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightnin)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2009, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-atheists-settle-the-fuck-down/481366/142 "2009-01-15T18:05:46Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > Ok, so we are at an impasse. > > I am tired of dealing with the absurdity of 20 people on the same message board all telling me exactly the same thing, holding the same opinions and trying to tell me there is no common culture. It’s ridiculous nonsense. You know, if 20 people are telling you the same thing, and all you can do is dismiss it as “nonsense”… maybe, just maybe, they’re not the ones who are wrong. The only thing I’ve got in common with the other people who’re arguing against you is that we all think you’re a bit of a fuckwit. I’m sure we’ve just got some sort of “\*\*mswas \*\*is a fuckwit” culture, though. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2009, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-atheists-settle-the-fuck-down/481366/143 "2009-01-15T18:08:10Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > It’s funny how often y’all think it’s me who is not getting it. Just because your point is stupid doesn’t mean I didn’t get what you were driving at. > > You’re just not going to convince me that the sky is chartreuse. Aaaaaaand… once again, this is why people do not listen to your point of view, and just write you off. Simply saying “you’re stupid” “your argument is stupid” “your point is stupid” “you’re a moron” DOES NOT WORK. It. is. not. an. effective. strategy. Unless your actual intent is simply to goad people. Then go right ahead I guess. But don’t act all shocked when people take shots back. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2009, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-atheists-settle-the-fuck-down/481366/144 "2009-01-15T18:08:59Z")
Who is Newdow and why do you think he speaks for atheists ? He is giving his opinion, as he is entitled. I am annoyed by jamming god references in official ceremonies. I am annoyed by people who think they are important enough to fight over.Hell with it. You can not get elected unless you profess a love of a fictional creature . It is an embarrassment. But it is our history and says who we are. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2009, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-atheists-settle-the-fuck-down/481366/145 "2009-01-15T18:10:04Z")
> [@Lightnin](#): > > You know, if 20 people are telling you the same thing, and all you can do is dismiss it as “nonsense”… maybe, just maybe, they’re not the ones who are wrong. The only thing I’ve got in common with the other people who’re arguing against you is that we all think you’re a bit of a fuckwit. I’m sure we’ve just got some sort of “\*\*mswas \*\*is a fuckwit” culture, though. I didn’t dismiss it as nonsense. I called the idea that 20 people in agreement all in one place not being evidence of culture, nonsense. And thinking I am a fuckwit is hardly the only thing you have in common with them. You all have been agreeing on a lot of things. Culture does not require people to be in lockstep with other members of that common culture in order to still have a culture. It’s just a naive and unsophisticated argument, and unfortunately one that is all too common. ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2009, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-atheists-settle-the-fuck-down/481366/146 "2009-01-15T18:10:13Z")
> [@Lightnin](#): > > I’m sure we’ve just got some sort of “\*\*mswas \*\*is a fuckwit” culture, though. There IS an **mswas** is a fuckwit culture. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2009, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-atheists-settle-the-fuck-down/481366/147 "2009-01-15T18:12:29Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > Aaaaaaand… once again, this is why people do not listen to your point of view, and just write you off. Simply saying “you’re stupid” “your argument is stupid” “your point is stupid” “you’re a moron” DOES NOT WORK. It. is. not. an. effective. strategy. Lots of people listen to me and don’t write me off. I only say something is stupid, if it’s stupid. There is no point in arguing with someone who wants to insist something as moronic as the idea that there is no common atheist culture. > [@](#): > > Unless your actual intent is simply to goad people. Then go right ahead I guess. But don’t act all shocked when people take shots back. No, my intent is to show that I won’t take such an argument seriously and argue it like it has merit when it doesn’t. Who is acting shocked? I think you’re projecting. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2009, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-atheists-settle-the-fuck-down/481366/148 "2009-01-15T18:13:00Z")
> [@Bosstone](#): > > There IS an **mswas** is a fuckwit culture. I think he gets a chubby every time his name is mentioned online. ---
**Author:** ![Sarahfeena](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sarahfeena/32/519_2.png) [@Sarahfeena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sarahfeena)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2009, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-atheists-settle-the-fuck-down/481366/149 "2009-01-15T18:14:25Z")
> [@Lightnin](#): > > Wrong. It’s OUR problem. Wrong. It’s the problem of people who can’t deal with sincere expression of religious belief from a man who they otherwise seem to admire. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2009, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-atheists-settle-the-fuck-down/481366/150 "2009-01-15T18:18:05Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > Lots of people listen to me and don’t write me off. I only say something is stupid, if it’s stupid. There is no point in arguing with someone who wants to insist something as moronic as the idea that there is no common atheist culture. > > No, my intent is to show that I won’t take such an argument seriously and argue it like it has merit when it doesn’t. > > Who is acting shocked? I think you’re projecting. The arrogance! It burns!!! You must be a real treat to be around. I can just picture you around the water cooler: Co-worker: “I just bought a Honda - I think they’re great” mswas: “Honda’s are a poor excuse for a car. You’re stupid and your car choice is moronic” Co-worker: “but consumer report says that the Honda is…” mswas: “bah! I will not waste any more of my valuable time discussing this with you as you’re clearly too stupid to understand my vast intellect.” ---
**Author:** ![Lightnin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightnin/32/180_2.png) [@Lightnin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightnin)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2009, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-atheists-settle-the-fuck-down/481366/151 "2009-01-15T18:18:10Z")
> [@Sarahfeena](#): > > Wrong. It’s the problem of people who can’t deal with sincere expression of religious belief from a man who they otherwise seem to admire. … who live in a society where religion isn’t supposed to interfere with government. Do you deny that \*any \*President’s inclusion of “so help me God” makes it that much harder for subsequent oath-takers to \*not \*include “so help me God”? ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Carrot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f0a364/32.png) [@Captain\_Carrot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Carrot)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2009, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-atheists-settle-the-fuck-down/481366/152 "2009-01-15T18:19:41Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > child pornography on billboards. Cite? > [@mswas](#): > > I called the idea that 20 people in agreement all in one place not being evidence of culture, nonsense. It doesn’t take much for 20 people to disagree with you, and sharing a certain opinion has nothing to do with culture. [QUOTE=mswas;10697424There is no point in arguing with someone who wants to insist something as moronic as the idea that there is no common atheist culture.[/QUOTE] What precisely is a part of ‘atheist culture’? I’ve missed my past few issues of ‘The Atheist Newsletter’. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2009, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-atheists-settle-the-fuck-down/481366/153 "2009-01-15T18:20:03Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > The arrogance! It burns!!! > > You must be a real treat to be around. I can just picture you around the water cooler: > > Co-worker: “I just bought a Honda - I think they’re great” > > mswas: “Honda’s are a poor excuse for a car. You’re stupid and your car choice is moronic” > > Co-worker: “but consumer report says that the Honda is…” > > mswas: “bah! I will not waste any more of my valuable time discussing this with you as you’re clearly too stupid to understand my vast intellect.” My In-Laws have Honda CRVs. I like them, they handle pretty well, have lots of room and get good gas mileage. ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2009, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-atheists-settle-the-fuck-down/481366/154 "2009-01-15T18:21:15Z")
> [@Lightnin](#): > > Do you deny that \*any \*President’s inclusion of “so help me God” makes it that much harder for subsequent oath-takers to \*not \*include “so help me God”? To be honest, being that by the time this becomes a concern the oath-taker involved has already gotten voted into office, there’s probably not a whole lot of pressure. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2009, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-atheists-settle-the-fuck-down/481366/155 "2009-01-15T18:22:58Z")
> [@Captain\_Carrot](#): > > Cite? Baby Phat billboards. > [@](#): > > It doesn’t take much for 20 people to disagree with you, and sharing a certain opinion has nothing to do with culture. I am talking about sharing a precise opinion about a political issue, not whether or not they disagree with me. You’re making it more about me than I am. > [@](#): > > What precisely is a part of ‘atheist culture’? I’ve missed my past few issues of ‘The Atheist Newsletter’. I consider movies like Religulous, books like, The God Delusion and web sites dedicated to atheism to be the products of culture. Just like not every atheist agrees with everything portrayed in these media, not every Christian agrees with every book, movie, or web site that talks about Christianity. ---
**Author:** ![Lightnin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightnin/32/180_2.png) [@Lightnin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightnin)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2009, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-atheists-settle-the-fuck-down/481366/156 "2009-01-15T18:25:55Z")
> [@Bosstone](#): > > To be honest, being that by the time this becomes a concern the oath-taker involved has already gotten voted into office, there’s probably not a whole lot of pressure. Granted. My point is, though, that it merely continues the expectation that a President \*must \*be Christian to get into office. There’s no reason for a public plea for God to make him a good President, other than to look good to his constituents. Which means, of course, that if an atheist wishes to hold office, then he’d need to lie and profess belief… otherwise, he might as well not run. I’d prefer my politicians to save their lies for the important issues. ---
**Author:** ![Sarahfeena](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sarahfeena/32/519_2.png) [@Sarahfeena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sarahfeena)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2009, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-atheists-settle-the-fuck-down/481366/157 "2009-01-15T18:26:26Z")
> [@Lightnin](#): > > … who live in a society where religion isn’t supposed to interfere with government. > > Do you deny that \*any \*President’s inclusion of “so help me God” makes it that much harder for subsequent oath-takers to \*not \*include “so help me God”? I have no idea if it does or not, and I really don’t care. We elected a guy to the office who happens to be religious. Now we’re going to tell him that he can’t talk about it, can’t express it, has to pretend it doesn’t exist because the next guy might feel pressure? If the next guy who’s elected leader of the free world doesn’t have the balls to stand up and say he doesn’t want to include it, that he’s not religious and it has no particular meaning to him, then that’s his problem, as I said. Let me ask you a question. Every president I can remember has been shown on the news going to church on holidays. Should they have to stop doing that, too, in case the next guy doesn’t want to feel pressure to go? ---
**Author:** ![irae](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/f0a364/32.png) [@irae](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/irae)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2009, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-atheists-settle-the-fuck-down/481366/158 "2009-01-15T18:29:03Z")
> [@Hi\_Neighbor](#): > > I’m an atheist. But really, now that uber-atheist Michael Newdow wants the phrase “so help me God” removed from the inaugural oath, I feel that this is taking it to an extreme. From MSNBC ([Atheists want God stricken from inaugural oath](http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/28663712/)), Newdow went so far as to sue Chief Justice John Roberts in federal court for an injunction barring the use of those words. > > Even as an atheist, I never had a problem with “Under God” in the Pledge of Allegiance, nor did I have a problem with “In God We Trust” printed on our currency. Perhaps I’m just not as stringent as other atheists. > > This case reminds me a little of PETA. I’m against cruelty to animals, as any reasonable person should be, but I’m still going to enjoy a steak. And there’s no way in hell that I’m going to refer to fish as “sea kittens.” Newdow and his followers are taking a perfectly acceptable set of beliefs and taking it to a preposterous extreme. IMO, he’s completely overreacting and going to great lengths to give other atheists a bad name. We’re not all as radical is that nut. So when the Pledge was changed in the 1950s to include “under God” it was ok, but changing it BACK is PETA-like fanaticism. Gotcha. ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2009, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-atheists-settle-the-fuck-down/481366/159 "2009-01-15T18:33:25Z")
> [@Lightnin](#): > > Which means, of course, that if an atheist wishes to hold office, then he’d need to lie and profess belief… otherwise, he might as well not run. I’d prefer my politicians to save their lies for the important issues. I’ve given some thought to this. I’m not sure he’d need to lie, but neither does he have to come right out and say s/he’s an atheist, thus scaring off the folks with a persecution complex. The trick isn’t to make any definitive statements about what you believe one way or the other, but instead deflect and keep the issues off religion. We shouldn’t _care_ what religion our President subscribes to, or if he subscribes to one at all. It just should not be a factor. If we do get an atheist President, it’ll be someone who never explicitly says he is, and when asked about beliefs merely comes back with something like “Belief is a private matter,” etc. etc. It’ll be hard, but possibly doable. Although I haven’t figured out what the best answer to “Do you believe in God?” would be. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2009, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-atheists-settle-the-fuck-down/481366/160 "2009-01-15T18:34:11Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > My In-Laws have Honda CRVs. I like them, they handle pretty well, have lots of room and get good gas mileage. a) deliberately obtuse b) special needs case c) thinks he’s witty d) needed just one more post to turn his chubby into a woody You Decide! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-atheists-settle-the-fuck-down/481366.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-atheists-settle-the-fuck-down/481366.md?page=9)