# OK, Beeyotches, You've Made Up My Mind For Me **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 4, 2008, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-beeyotches-youve-made-up-my-mind-for-me/462002 "2008-09-04T15:47:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 16
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2008, 6:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-beeyotches-youve-made-up-my-mind-for-me/462002/301 "2008-09-06T06:45:20Z")
> [@miss\_elizabeth](#): > > I will vote for Obama, and if he loses I will be heartbroken again. Did you know I was saddened in 2000? I was. Did you know I actually cried when the results were announced in 2004? I did. I was shocked and hurt that the country I loved had begun to look at politics as no more than a sport, and was deeply afraid that people were doing no more than rooting for a team, instead of looking at the state of our nation and voting for what would lead us all in the best direction. Or, you know, they could have just disagreed with you. Occam’s Razor, and all that. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/73ab20/32.png) [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tao_s_Revenge)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2008, 9:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-beeyotches-youve-made-up-my-mind-for-me/462002/302 "2008-09-06T09:41:44Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > You think I crowed after 2000? I remember that, and I remember 2004 too, when you pussies whined about how shocked and hurt you were and begged me stop rubbing your pathetic faces in your loss. That will be a walk in the park compared to what’s coming up. I’ll fucking buy ad time on this board to crow about a McCain victory. > > Yeah, I was a fool to think it could be any other way. I see that now. Thanks. You’re a traitor and slime if you think Bush winning was a good thing. What do you say to the innocent Canadian and other people Bush’s admin tortured? Or do Conservatives believe torture is okay? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/73ab20/32.png) [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tao_s_Revenge)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2008, 10:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-beeyotches-youve-made-up-my-mind-for-me/462002/303 "2008-09-06T10:20:09Z")
> [@Gadarene](#): > > Oh, come on. > > It’s like an abusive relationship. He builds up your respect, shits all over it, apologizes, and then builds it right back up again. > > Get a clue. It’s almost like battered wife syndrome, except it’s just a message board so not nearly as bad. Oh and the physical abuse is saved for random innocent people Bush feels like shipping off to Syria to be whipped while they scream in agony thanks to friend Bricker’s vote. Edit: uh sorry about the double post. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/73ab20/32.png) [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tao_s_Revenge)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2008, 10:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-beeyotches-youve-made-up-my-mind-for-me/462002/304 "2008-09-06T10:52:43Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Since your recollection is so good, perhaps you’ll also recall that I didn’t refer to that period as being idyllic in fact, only that it seems idyllic in comparison to the way things are now. There is a difference. Crap, could a mod merge these please? Should have read ahead before posting. Where do you fit in in the 50s if you’re not a white protestant male? I don’t do drugs, although I do know people who do them responsibly and I’m okay with it. I don’t drink, I don’t gamble. I respect the law. I vote, and try to get other people to vote even if I disagree with them. I was proud of myself for getting my grandfather to vote even though he voted for Satan in the flesh (Bush) because voting is more important then any one election. I take care of myself, and I help people out if I can. I work hard. I follow my conscience. Would the 50s welcome me with open arms? Oh I forget a minor few details. I’m mixed race, don’t have a legitimate ‘dad’, and religiously agnostic. How would I do in the 50s? ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2008, 11:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-beeyotches-youve-made-up-my-mind-for-me/462002/305 "2008-09-06T11:14:47Z")
> [@](#): > > **Mr. Moto** : My older black friends often are strangely nostalgic for that era - and when I asked one of them about that, he mentioned quite sensibly that civil rights marchers in suits and Sunday dresses wanted to share more equally in the decent society that existed then, not share equally in a less decent society that followed. What did your other black friend say? ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2008, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-beeyotches-youve-made-up-my-mind-for-me/462002/306 "2008-09-06T17:18:06Z")
> [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](#): > > Oh I forget a minor few details. I’m mixed race, don’t have a legitimate ‘dad’, and religiously agnostic. > > How would I do in the 50s? I don’t think you understand what I’m saying. I’m saying that the social ills that existed in the 50s (and throughout the country’s history; after all, the 50s didn’t invent them) could have been (and should have been) addressed without throwing out the qualities of decency and other societal positives that existed at that time as well, and that life in this country is much worse off as a result of the way that it was done. ETA: Hi, **Zoe**! ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2008, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-beeyotches-youve-made-up-my-mind-for-me/462002/307 "2008-09-06T19:25:06Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > I don’t think you understand what I’m saying. I’m saying that the social ills that existed in the 50s (and throughout the country’s history; after all, the 50s didn’t invent them) could have been (and should have been) addressed without throwing out the qualities of decency and other societal positives that existed at that time as well, and that life in this country is much worse off as a result of the way that it was done. Fair enough - but on\*\* both \*\*sides of the divide, the louder voices tended to entrench themselves in “all or nothing” positions. Reactionaries would use the basic decent value of being civil to one another as an excuse to make dissenters shut up; radicals would use the basic value of free expression as an excuse to say/do irresponsible things; etc. 50 years ago we were (or seemed to be) high on social peace, not so high on social justice; we’ve traded\* some\* of the former, for much more of the latter, and IMO, which may not be yours, it’s a bargain I can live with because (a) it seems it would have taken a LOT longer to get things going w/o shaking up the structure some and (b)I feel it was NOT a zero-sum game and the net total good \*\*is \*\*greater. As is often stated by the conservative side in other discussions, greater freedom includes accepting greater risk of outcomes we don’t like. Ideally, you and I, left and right, would all aspire to a society that has BOTH “justice” _and_ “peace” at optimal levels. But since IRL optimality is seldom 100% of X AND 100% of Y, so it would involve for both of us accepting there are some things we’d like that we’ll never get, and some things we miss that we’ll never get back. ---
**Author:** ![Jman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jman/32/4416_2.png) [@Jman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jman)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2008, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-beeyotches-youve-made-up-my-mind-for-me/462002/308 "2008-09-06T19:44:34Z")
So Bricker, let me get this straight…you are fondly remembering rubbing our faces in the fact that GWB had won both terms. How’d that work out for you? Are you proud you helped elect possibly the most incompetent president in American history? If so, good for you…way to show us! Enjoy doing the same again, if McCain happens to pull this one off, as America sinks further into the toilet GWB helped flush us down. Oh…and I thought the point of voting was trying to elect the person best suited to lead our country, not which of the candidate’s supporters make you feel all warm and fuzzy. Oh, that’s right, that’s what RESPONSIBLE voters do, not what douchebag losers like yourself do. I can respect someone who votes for McCain because they feel he’s the best suited to lead the country. (I disagree, but that’s not the point.) Voting a certain way because SDMB members are outspoken on a candidate and you don’t like that just makes you an ass. ---
**Author:** ![Knorf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/58956e/32.png) [@Knorf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knorf)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2008, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-beeyotches-youve-made-up-my-mind-for-me/462002/309 "2008-09-06T20:17:08Z")
> [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](#): > > Or do Conservatives believe torture is okay? They do if their revered leaders say it is. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2008, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-beeyotches-youve-made-up-my-mind-for-me/462002/310 "2008-09-06T20:20:01Z")
> [@Zoe](#): > > What did your other black friend say? Zoe, at what point do you hit bottom, realize that your posts are becoming increasingly irrelevant and a caricature of the mindless bitter old ex-hippie, and start adding something to the discussion? This is repulsive. Daniel ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2008, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-beeyotches-youve-made-up-my-mind-for-me/462002/311 "2008-09-07T02:05:09Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#): > > Ideally, you and I, left and right, would all aspire to a society that has BOTH “justice” _and_ “peace” at optimal levels. But since IRL optimality is seldom 100% of X AND 100% of Y, so it would involve for both of us accepting there are some things we’d like that we’ll never get, and some things we miss that we’ll never get back. Indeed. And I have tried to weigh these pros and cons myself, and frankly, I’m hard put to come up with an answer myself. I didn’t experince life as a black man in the 50s, though I don’t recall much bitterness from them before it became a social issue in the sixties, driven mostly by the young. I wasn’t a woman in the 50s, but I don’t remember any bitterness coming from women back then until the feminist movement began, again driven mostly by the young and in the wake of the racial equality movement. Etc., etc. So yes, had I been a black man or a woman in the 50s, I might feel that things are better now. But when I look at how little they seemed to feel put upon in the pre-sixties era, and I look at the criminality, widespread use of drugs, filthy, vulgar misogynistic rap music, rampant STDs, and overall decline of societal civility, I’m hard pressed to think things are better now. ---
**Author:** ![TVeblen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/4bbf92/32.png) [@TVeblen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TVeblen)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2008, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-beeyotches-youve-made-up-my-mind-for-me/462002/312 "2008-09-07T02:25:47Z")
[QUOTE=Starving Artist] So yes, had I been a black man or a woman in the 50s, I might feel that things are better now.\*\* But when I look at how little they seemed to feel put upon in the pre-sixties era, and I look at the criminality, widespread use of drugs, filthy, vulgar misogynistic rap music, rampant STDs, and overall decline of societal civility, I’m hard pressed to think things are better now.\*\* [/QUOTE] You really are a nauseating, self-indulgent piece of shit. You’ll distort any truth, flat out lie, if it supports your cozy view that evil liberals ruined what was, for you, a very comfy gig. No social evil was too bad so long as you can conveniently forget it ever existed and rationalize it away. “How little blacks seemed to feel put upon in the pre-sixties era.” People, citizens of this republic, weren’t allowed to stay in the same hotels as whites, weren’t allowed to eat in the same restaurants, weren’t allowed to swim in public pools their tax money helped pay for and had to sit meekly behind whites on public transportation. In many parts of the country it was actively dangerous for black citizens _to even register to vote_. There were still lynchings in the south, young black men taken out and hanged by vigilantes who felt they had a right to keep uppity blacks in their place. _Black children were not permitted to attend the same public schools with white children._ And all this for one reason: their skin color. Nothing else. Not actions, integrity, not character, nothing but skin pigment. But according to **Starving Artist** , compassionate ‘conservative’, so unjustly maligned, the darkies were really just as happy that way. Less crime, less sex, everything so peaceful. Because hey, you were sure happier back then before liberals ruined everything. You really are a racist piece of filth. I’ve never used that term before on this board because it’s never been justified. You’re the worst kind of complacent racist, not the hating kind, dear me, no! You just don’t see anybody who isn’t just like you as human. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2008, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-beeyotches-youve-made-up-my-mind-for-me/462002/313 "2008-09-07T02:58:57Z")
**Veb** , have you perchance missed my numerous statements to the effect that genuine ills existed at that time which needed to be addressed? Well, in case you have, issues of race are foremost amoung them. I can hardly believe sometimes the way blacks were treated and had to live during that time. I didn’t believe, however, that kicking criminals out on the street with thirty convictions on their rap sheets; filthy, misogynistic rap music; rampant STDs: a rampant drug culture; a philosophy that crime was ‘society’s fault’, an educational system ruled by a union that couldn’t care less about teaching the difference between they’re, their, and there, or that every word that ends is “s” doesn’t take an apostrophe, etc., etc., ad fucking nauseum, was the answer. As I just said in some other thread (there are so many where you’re being a dingbat I’ve lost track), you need to get a grip before you hurt someone. ---
**Author:** ![Ogre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecb155/32.png) [@Ogre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ogre)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2008, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-beeyotches-youve-made-up-my-mind-for-me/462002/314 "2008-09-07T03:20:30Z")
Oh no! Not that dang ol’ filthy, misogynistic rap music! :rolleyes: You see what you want to see, and nothing else. And that’s what makes you an idiot. ---
**Author:** ![TVeblen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/4bbf92/32.png) [@TVeblen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TVeblen)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2008, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-beeyotches-youve-made-up-my-mind-for-me/462002/315 "2008-09-07T03:21:32Z")
[QUOTE=Starving Artist] I didn’t believe, however, that kicking criminals out on the street with thirty convictions on their rap sheets; filthy, misogynistic rap music; rampant STDs: a rampant drug culture; a philosophy that crime was ‘society’s fault’, an educational system ruled by a union that couldn’t care less about teaching the difference between they’re, their, and there, or that every word that ends is “s” doesn’t take an apostrophe, etc., etc., ad fucking nauseum, was the answer. [/QUOTE] And all that is due to liberals. And blacks would just as soon go back to segregation and the Fun 50s too, if it means living with crime, rap lyrics and grammatical errors. That’s why blacks, whom you so generously admit faced “genuine ills that needed to be addressed”, somehow just haven’t responded warmly to neocon overtures. There was a hilarious column by Mona Charen, shill for a fundie ‘think tank’, chiding mysterious and unnamed black leaders: the grossest political injustice in recent years was blacks not responding warmly to George W. Bush. It was a masterpiece of unintentional satire, but you’ve outdone it. I’m fine, by the way. It’s been rather a relief to have you board neocons expose yourselves so thoroughly. At least very few are bothering to answer your repeated cries of persecution. Oh, I mean “genuine ills that need to be addressed”. You really are a wretched little cunt. But please do keep pitying yourself. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2008, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-beeyotches-youve-made-up-my-mind-for-me/462002/316 "2008-09-07T03:29:49Z")
> [@TVeblen](#): > > You really are a wretched little cunt. But please do keep pitying yourself. You’re makin’ me hot, talkin’ like that. Stop it. ---
**Author:** ![TVeblen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/4bbf92/32.png) [@TVeblen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TVeblen)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2008, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-beeyotches-youve-made-up-my-mind-for-me/462002/317 "2008-09-07T03:32:35Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > You’re makin’ me hot, talkin’ like that. Stop it. You’re a troll. You’re also too arrogant and stupid to bother with. Keep jerking off on the board. Bye bye, bitch! ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2008, 4:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-beeyotches-youve-made-up-my-mind-for-me/462002/318 "2008-09-07T04:08:37Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > I didn’t believe, however, that kicking criminals out on the street with thirty convictions on their rap sheets; filthy, misogynistic rap music; rampant STDs: a rampant drug culture; a philosophy that crime was ‘society’s fault’, an educational system ruled by a union that couldn’t care less about teaching the difference between they’re, their, and there, or that every word that ends is “s” doesn’t take an apostrophe, etc., etc., ad fucking nauseum, was the answer. This, kids, is the difference between stupid and _dangerous_ stupid. ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2008, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-beeyotches-youve-made-up-my-mind-for-me/462002/319 "2008-09-09T00:19:12Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I have realized something, thanks to this board. > > I considered supporting and voting for Senator Obama, even though I disagree with him on most major issues and agree with Senator McCain on most of those same issues. > > Why did I toy with this idea? > > As I explained in a number of threads, it was because I was impressed – hell, blown away, more like it – by Senator Obama’s approach to campaigning. He had talked the talk, like every candidate does, about making it about the issues, but he was doing the nearly unprecedented walking the walk as well. He was keeping to the high road, even in the face of negative forays by his opponents (both Senators Clinton and McCain). I thought to myself, “If Obama can win doing this, it could transform how people in this country view campaigning!” That alone, I figured, was an issue, and it was fast becoming my ‘single issue’ and I was leaning towards being a single-issue voter. > > The past few days and the Palin hysteria here (and in the larger blogosphere) have convinced me that I was an idiot to imagine such a thing. Despite Senator Obama’s calls (and actions!) to avoid such things, I see that the left has no intention of heeding this particular call to arms from their candidate. I see, further, the idea that the lesson of an Obama win will be that clean honest campaigning works would never be drawn. > > So that settles it. Given that my only reason to support Obama is revealed now as a ridiculously naive pipe dream, it’s over. > > I’m voting McCain, you beeyotches! Thanks for making me see the light. > > And when he wins, I am going to crow for a week. You think I crowed after 2000? I remember that, and I remember 2004 too, when you pussies whined about how shocked and hurt you were and begged me stop rubbing your pathetic faces in your loss. That will be a walk in the park compared to what’s coming up. I’ll fucking buy ad time on this board to crow about a McCain victory. > > Yeah, I was a fool to think it could be any other way. I see that now. Thanks. What an idiot. ---
**Author:** ![ManiacMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b782af/32.png) [@ManiacMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ManiacMan)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2008, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-beeyotches-youve-made-up-my-mind-for-me/462002/320 "2008-09-09T03:26:25Z")
I just ain’t voting for the obama guy because he is a Democrat…pretty simple, really. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-beeyotches-youve-made-up-my-mind-for-me/462002.md?page=15) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-beeyotches-youve-made-up-my-mind-for-me/462002.md?page=17)