# OK, Beeyotches, You've Made Up My Mind For Me **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 4, 2008, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-beeyotches-youve-made-up-my-mind-for-me/462002 "2008-09-04T15:47:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2008, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-beeyotches-youve-made-up-my-mind-for-me/462002/41 "2008-09-04T16:22:36Z")
> [@Bosstone](#): > > Not that you care, but this pretty much kills any respect I might have had for you. > > I like and respect honest conservatives. Anti-liberals like, you, **Shodan** , **Starving Artist** , and the rest who are concerned more with pissing off liberals than attending to your own beliefs are useless wastes of space. Yes, the same applies to anti-conservatives, but I’ve yet to see a fence-sitter who was ‘swayed’ to vote for Obama because a ‘conservative’ was mean to them. Pfft. I’m amazed that every time little rick pulls something like this there’s always a couple people who chime in with “I used to have so much respect for you, you used to be so different.” Horseshit, it’s been the same with him the whole time. He just lets the darkness show through the cracks a little more often. It’s always been there, kids. -Joe ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2008, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-beeyotches-youve-made-up-my-mind-for-me/462002/42 "2008-09-04T16:24:53Z")
> [@Kinthalis](#): > > Didn’t Obama himself say that he would fire anyone working for his campaign caught trying to use this in any way? Not to speak for **Bricker** , but isn’t that sort of the problem? Obama sold himself as a new politician, who would bring a new way of campaigning. Now we have discovered that he isn’t much of a leader. He can’t even get his own followers to behave rationally. How can he be expected to unify the country if he can’t stop his own people from running out of control? Therefore, since he can’t demonstrate leadership in this, and since his policies (as **Bricker** mentions) are mostly stupid, he has nothing to recommend him. So, no leadership, no policies, no vote. To be fair to Obama, he was never more than a Rorschach blot, which people project their fantasies onto. Who knows? Maybe he will still be elected, and then the rest of the country will figure out what an empty suit he is. **Bricker** is just ahead of the curve. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2008, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-beeyotches-youve-made-up-my-mind-for-me/462002/43 "2008-09-04T16:25:23Z")
> [@Merijeek](#): > > Pfft. I’m amazed that every time little rick pulls something like this there’s always a couple people who chime in with “I used to have so much respect for you, you used to be so different.” Horseshit, it’s been the same with him the whole time. He just lets the darkness show through the cracks a little more often. > > It’s always been there, kids. > > -Joe True enough. I had forgotten about the touchdown dancing he did in 2004. He’s just usually able to keep it civilized, but I guess every partisan has the overwhelming urge to shove their dick in the other side’s face. Some are just better at control than others. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2008, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-beeyotches-youve-made-up-my-mind-for-me/462002/44 "2008-09-04T16:25:30Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > So, you want integrity. You want positive campaigning. You want to focus on issues and end personal attacks. > > And you want someone else to do it first. Yeah, it sounds pretty stupid when you say it like that. I would have LOVED to have the GOP come up with someone willing to run that campaign. The issues I agreed with, AND the integrity of a clean campaign to boot? Fuggedditabout it! I’d have been quitting my job to go WORK for that campaign. But… that didn’t happen. And it won’t. Because, as has been clearly demonstrated, it cannot. We’re past that. My boys can’t do it; negative campaign tactics are page one of the GOP playbook. And now we learn that even if the one-in-a-million Dem (and make no mistake: Obama is one-in-a-million) does it, no one will care enough to emulate it. Obama is a great man. None of you pig fuckers understand what he was doing here. I didn’t like any of his positions, and I say that about him. Biden is a run-of-the-mill politico, no better or worse than a dozen others. Obama is a different breed. But it really doesn’t matter, because no one else is ready for the one lesson he had that I cared about. ---
**Author:** ![MovieMogul](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f08c70/32.png) [@MovieMogul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MovieMogul)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2008, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-beeyotches-youve-made-up-my-mind-for-me/462002/45 "2008-09-04T16:25:38Z")
> [@fluiddruid](#): > > But, yet, how can you expect any clean campaigner to immediately change the face of American politics? We’re not talking about Obama himself, nor his campaign, nor even prominent members of his party - we’re talking random yakkos on the Internet. Surely you must realize that if that was your expectation, you never really seriously considered Obama, because such a thing is impossible. See, all the conservatives have begun to buy their own overinflated talking-points hype: “Oooh, he’s transcendent! He’ll part the waters! He’ll change the face of politics overnight and then rest on the 2nd day!” No liberal thinks that (or very few do), but we do recognize that it’s a good start, and a noble pursuit, even if it’s hard not to be convinced that the only way to duke it out is to wallow in Rovian tactics. I like Bricker and I believed him as genuine when he said he would consider voting for Obama. But this thread makes clear that he held him to an impossible standard. You lead by example, and if he were to win running a (relatively) clean and postive, unifying campaign, I want to believe that the GOP would actually do some self-assessing and try to become a party reoriented toward conservative principles and not just anti-liberal fear-mongering. Obama has goals and aspirations, but it would be foolish to believe he can build a new Rome in a day. So I find it disingenuous for Bricker to see the actions of some of Obama’s followers, and assume that nothing will ever change after all. What did he expect? Clearly a miracle. What’s most dispiriting, though, is the unadulterated glee that he takes in rubbing his non-conversion back in our faces. Of course, this is wholly in the spirit of the vindictive tenor of the Republican convention so far, and strikes me as far more immature then is typical for him. I believe that, unlike the corrosive devisiveness on display last night, Obama does sincerely believe he can build coalitions and bridge cultural and political divides–and I believe that the more he succeeds in doing this, the less you’ll see of the nastiness that Bricker uses as his reasoning for staying where he is. But it won’t happen overnight–particularly since it’s also clear that he still seems so glibly unaware of the real bitterness many liberals feel–not about losing power or seeing our candidates beaten, but by seeing the country we love monumentally fucked up by unfettered Republican rule for 6 straight years. So yeah, there’s going to be some pettiness and low blows, and if you fixate on that, then it’ll be easy to convince yourself that it’s all merely talk. But that’s his choice, and not some inevitability borne out of political reality. So amidst all the unfortunate name-calling going on in this thread, I’m sorry to see him go. I think his excuses are a bit specious and unrealistic (which is why, I suspect, many others think he was full of it in the first place), but I appreciate that he was open to the possibility of something better. I’m sure that won’t stop him from telling me to suck his fat one, too (I’ll pass, thanks), but I can guarantee that when Obama wins, I may be elated by the victory, but I won’t be “crowing”, calling him names and disparaging what he believes in. Because when Obama wins, we’ll still need guys like Bricker to help accomplish the achieveable things my candidate has set out to do. It’s too bad he doesn’t see me (and people who share my optimism) the same way. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2008, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-beeyotches-youve-made-up-my-mind-for-me/462002/46 "2008-09-04T16:26:32Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > And by the way – why is it such a big deal for me to say I’ll rub it in everyone’s face after a McCain win, but no one worries about how I feel watching the zillions of threads unfold here about Palin? Um…because you’re a dick? ---
**Author:** ![Finagle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/b19c9b/32.png) [@Finagle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Finagle)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2008, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-beeyotches-youve-made-up-my-mind-for-me/462002/47 "2008-09-04T16:26:51Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > On on side, heaped together, are the issues – Iraq, economy, appointment of Supreme Court justices, social policy – that appear in every campaign. With few exceptions, all these tilt the arrow of the scale sharply towards McCain. Well, I asked this in another thread, but I’ll ask it again here. How has the last administration lived up to those issues? You really happy with the increased national debt? Increase in government scrutiny (TSA and Homeland Security)? Depressed dollar and nonexistent energy policies? Cost of living and inflation increases? Failed banks and a huge mortgage crisis? What social policy changes has the Bush administration wrought that you’re so proud of? What makes you think a McCain administration isn’t going to be the same-old same-old? ---
**Author:** ![Nancarrow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c37758/32.png) [@Nancarrow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nancarrow)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2008, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-beeyotches-youve-made-up-my-mind-for-me/462002/48 "2008-09-04T16:27:05Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I considered supporting and voting for Senator Obama… > > The past few days and the Palin hysteria here (and in the larger blogosphere) have convinced me that I was an idiot to imagine such a thing… > > So that settles it… > > I’m voting McCain, you beeyotches! Thanks for making me see the light… Emotional blackmail. Yup. That’ll work. That will show the liberals on this board how WRONG they are, and how RIGHT you are. When I first came to this board, I quickly lumped you in with Shodan, Starving Artist, and (at that time) Brutus. After a while I came to think I was mistaken about you. Now, unlike other posters here, I still hold out hope that you can rise above the level of the aforementioned wastes of bandwidth. But boy, this OP is a stinker. ☹ [My turn at emotional blackmail]Please don’t shatter my illusions, Bricker. Please don’t let me down![/MTAEB] ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2008, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-beeyotches-youve-made-up-my-mind-for-me/462002/49 "2008-09-04T16:27:23Z")
Bricker has a point. Look at Great Debates, look at the Blogosphere. I mean, really, you Obamites have no better talking point than making up shit (“book banning” is an excellent example) about McCains _veep_? That’s the best you can do? Do you really think you are gaining a single vote for Obama by these ridiculous hysterical attacks? Look, Obama has a better platform than Mccain. Talk about that, rather than making up shit about Palin being a book burner. ---
**Author:** ![Giraffe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giraffe/32/129_2.png) [@Giraffe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giraffe)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2008, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-beeyotches-youve-made-up-my-mind-for-me/462002/50 "2008-09-04T16:28:10Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > But it really doesn’t matter, because no one else is ready for the one lesson he had that I cared about. Well, it sounds like you really tried to give him a chance, but your hands are tied. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2008, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-beeyotches-youve-made-up-my-mind-for-me/462002/51 "2008-09-04T16:29:11Z")
> [@Ferret\_Herder](#): > > Seriously, if that’s true, it’s a level of naivety that I hadn’t expected from you or just about anyone else. In my GD thread on this topic, several people pointed out that I was being ridiculously naive. And I was. Guilty as charged. I’m too old to be doing idiotic shit like that. I agree. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2008, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-beeyotches-youve-made-up-my-mind-for-me/462002/52 "2008-09-04T16:29:19Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I hoped that an Obama win would make the GOP say, “Shit, that neagtive stuff we kept doing really cost us. We need to take a page from that book.” > > Now I see that was a stupid idea. Geez, I could have told you that the notion that the notion the GOP would swear off feces-flinging politics was unrealistic. ---
**Author:** ![Ferret\_Herder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e47774/32.png) [@Ferret\_Herder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferret_Herder)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2008, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-beeyotches-youve-made-up-my-mind-for-me/462002/53 "2008-09-04T16:29:41Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Obama sold himself as a new politician, who would bring a new way of campaigning. Now we have discovered that he isn’t much of a leader. He can’t even get his own followers to behave rationally. How can he be expected to unify the country if he can’t stop his own people from running out of control? Aside from developing an effective form of mass mind control, exactly how would this work? You’re talking about shutting up every single random person with a mouth to shoot off who might even vaguely fall on the left side of the political spectrum, and some of those who don’t. ‘Oh, but you said he’s special! He brings hope! Where’s your hope **now**?’ Screw that. He’s human, and unfortunately, so is everyone else. ---
**Author:** ![Lightnin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightnin/32/180_2.png) [@Lightnin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightnin)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2008, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-beeyotches-youve-made-up-my-mind-for-me/462002/54 "2008-09-04T16:30:00Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Not to speak for **Bricker** , but isn’t that sort of the problem? > > Obama sold himself as a new politician, who would bring a new way of campaigning. Now we have discovered that he isn’t much of a leader. He can’t even get his own followers to behave rationally. How can he be expected to unify the country if he can’t stop his own people from running out of control? So by all means, let’s vote for _the guy who didn’t even try_. > [@Shodan](#): > > Therefore, since he can’t demonstrate leadership in this, and since his policies (as **Bricker** mentions) are mostly stupid, he has nothing to recommend him. Funny, most of us are voting for him \*because \*of his policies, not because we think he’s some sort of messiah or whatever it is you cool kids are calling it these days. > [@Shodan](#): > > So, no leadership, no policies, no vote. Noun-Verb-POW. > [@Shodan](#): > > To be fair to Obama, he was never more than a Rorschach blot, which people project their fantasies onto. Who knows? Maybe he will still be elected, and then the rest of the country will figure out what an empty suit he is. **Bricker** is just ahead of the curve. Because you guys did SUCH an excellent job in picking the best man for the job in the last two elections. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2008, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-beeyotches-youve-made-up-my-mind-for-me/462002/55 "2008-09-04T16:32:07Z")
> [@Finagle](#): > > Well, I asked this in another thread, but I’ll ask it again here. How has the last administration lived up to those issues? You really happy with the increased national debt? Increase in government scrutiny (TSA and Homeland Security)? Depressed dollar and nonexistent energy policies? Cost of living and inflation increases? Failed banks and a huge mortgage crisis? What social policy changes has the Bush administration wrought that you’re so proud of? What makes you think a McCain administration isn’t going to be the same-old same-old? What is this shit? Issues? You want to talk about issues? What about Palin’s DNA test? What’s your position on THAT? Seriously, I can answer every question you’ve raised, but I don’t want to derail my irrational fury here with calm reason. Perhaps we could start a GD thread in a bit on this general topic? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2008, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-beeyotches-youve-made-up-my-mind-for-me/462002/56 "2008-09-04T16:33:15Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > And when he wins, I am going to crow for a week. You think I crowed after 2000? I remember that, and I remember 2004 too, when you pussies whined about how shocked and hurt you were and begged me stop rubbing your pathetic faces in your loss. That will be a walk in the park compared to what’s coming up. I’ll fucking buy ad time on this board to crow about a McCain victory. Bricker, man, you voted for Bush _twice_. Now you think that anyone will actually care who you vote for this time around? ---
**Author:** ![Ferret\_Herder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e47774/32.png) [@Ferret\_Herder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferret_Herder)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2008, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-beeyotches-youve-made-up-my-mind-for-me/462002/57 "2008-09-04T16:34:02Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > In my GD thread on this topic, several people pointed out that I was being ridiculously naive. > > And I was. Guilty as charged. I’m too old to be doing idiotic shit like that. I agree. Now can we get back to voting for who we think best for the job instead of voting because you don’t like the comments of some random jerk on the SDMB or a blog? And not blaming it on those mean people who **made** you feel that way? (My ticket in the last election was probably split half-and-half, based upon my evaluation of their performance and qualifications. If it swings more Dem this election I promise not to blame your comments about partying over a loss. 😃 ) ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2008, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-beeyotches-youve-made-up-my-mind-for-me/462002/58 "2008-09-04T16:34:17Z")
Anyone who would do the “Brickey Shuffle” for months on end just because a Republican won (regardless of the effects on the country) is a Party Before Country Republican. (For those unaware, Bricker did a crowing dance for months after Bush’s last win. Additionally, there was a running back for the Bengals in the 80’s named Ickey Woods who was famed for his “Ickey Shuffle” a lame dance that he performed on the sidelines, due to prevailing NFL rules about celebration dances. Hence, the Brickey Shuffle.) I don’t buy for a minute that you would do anything else but vote Republican. If you are being remotely honest, and your vote for president is based on what people on a message board say, you have the integrity and disposition of a three year old. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2008, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-beeyotches-youve-made-up-my-mind-for-me/462002/59 "2008-09-04T16:38:12Z")
> [@ArchiveGuy](#): > > See, all the conservatives have begun to buy their own overinflated talking-points hype: “Oooh, he’s transcendent! He’ll part the waters! He’ll change the face of politics overnight and then rest on the 2nd day!” No liberal thinks that (or very few do), but we do recognize that it’s a good start, and a noble pursuit, even if it’s hard not to be convinced that the only way to duke it out is to wallow in Rovian tactics. > > I like Bricker and I believed him as genuine when he said he would consider voting for Obama. But this thread makes clear that he held him to an impossible standard. You lead by example, and if he were to win running a (relatively) clean and postive, unifying campaign, I want to believe that the GOP would actually do some self-assessing and try to become a party reoriented toward conservative principles and not just anti-liberal fear-mongering. > > Obama has goals and aspirations, but it would be foolish to believe he can build a new Rome in a day. So I find it disingenuous for Bricker to see the actions of some of Obama’s followers, and assume that nothing will ever change after all. What did he expect? Clearly a miracle. > > What’s most dispiriting, though, is the unadulterated glee that he takes in rubbing his non-conversion back in our faces. Of course, this is wholly in the spirit of the vindictive tenor of the Republican convention so far, and strikes me as far more immature then is typical for him. I believe that, unlike the corrosive devisiveness on display last night, Obama does sincerely believe he can build coalitions and bridge cultural and political divides–and I believe that the more he succeeds in doing this, the less you’ll see of the nastiness that Bricker uses as his reasoning for staying where he is. > > But it won’t happen overnight–particularly since it’s also clear that he still seems so glibly unaware of the real bitterness many liberals feel–not about losing power or seeing our candidates beaten, but by seeing the country we love monumentally fucked up by unfettered Republican rule for 6 straight years. So yeah, there’s going to be some pettiness and low blows, and if you fixate on that, then it’ll be easy to convince yourself that it’s all merely talk. But that’s his choice, and not some inevitability borne out of political reality. > > So amidst all the unfortunate name-calling going on in this thread, I’m sorry to see him go. I think his excuses are a bit specious and unrealistic (which is why, I suspect, many others think he was full of it in the first place), but I appreciate that he was open to the possibility of something better. I’m sure that won’t stop him from telling me to suck his fat one, too (I’ll pass, thanks), but I can guarantee that when Obama wins, I may be elated by the victory, but I won’t be “crowing”, calling him names and disparaging what he believes in. Because when Obama wins, we’ll still need guys like Bricker to help accomplish the achieveable things my candidate has set out to do. It’s too bad he doesn’t see me (and people who share my optimism) the same way. ☹ Jesus, **ArchiveGuy** , get out of my thread. You’re ruining my hate with this calm and open stuff. If everyone had this approach of yours, obviously I never would have started this thread in the first place. And I’m ashamed of myself, in a way. If only the newest VB software had a filter that I could set to only have the vicious nut-jobs read my rant, I would have. But it doesn’t, and so a decent, reasonable person gets to see some of my bile. I’m really sorry. To you, I apologize. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2008, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-beeyotches-youve-made-up-my-mind-for-me/462002/60 "2008-09-04T16:38:13Z")
> [@ArchiveGuy](#): > > Obama has goals and aspirations, but it would be foolish to believe he can build a new Rome in a day. So I find it disingenuous for Bricker to see the actions of some of Obama’s followers, and assume that nothing will ever change after all. What did he expect? Clearly a miracle. The level of discipline he did manage to achieve in this regard, keeping the crap out of both his own and the party’s organization, _was_ a miracle in terms of modern American politics. **Bricker** is embodying the old joke that if [insert name] walked on water, the headlines the next day would be that [insert name] can’t swim. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-beeyotches-youve-made-up-my-mind-for-me/462002.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-beeyotches-youve-made-up-my-mind-for-me/462002.md?page=4)