# OK Brits, Defend Your Empire Here **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 8, 2000, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-brits-defend-your-empire-here/18870 "2000-05-08T00:48:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2000, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-brits-defend-your-empire-here/18870/1 "2000-05-08T00:48:42Z")
Over in the Romans vs. Mongols thread, a debate has arise over who had the largest empire interms of land area. **Pepperlandgirl** says it was the Mongols, with their vast European and Asian holdings. I say it was the British Empire, with Australia, India, the African colonies and what-not. I may be wrong (and Pepperland girl has found some sources which have me on the defensive), but I am making a final appeal to our British posters. I figure y’all can probably lay your hands on some good jingoistic, rah-rah-for-the-Empire stats. Anyone have some good info on this topic? Here’s the link to the other thread: [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=23756](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=23756) ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2000, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-brits-defend-your-empire-here/18870/2 "2000-05-08T01:13:27Z")
OK, here’s a site which claims Britain had the largest “formal” empire (which admittedly sounds like they’re hedging): [http://www.edunltd.com/empire/intro/intro.htm](http://www.edunltd.com/empire/intro/intro.htm) And here is a map of the British Empire for reference: [http://www.edunltd.com/empire/maproom/maproom.htm](http://www.edunltd.com/empire/maproom/maproom.htm) At first glance, it looks like the Mongol Empire may have been larger. However, flat maps are skewed such that countries in the northern latitudes (like Russia) appear much larger than they are. When you take that into account, it looks like it could be a close call. Still looking for a numerical comparison… ---
**Author:** ![pepperlandgirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f17d59/32.png) [@pepperlandgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pepperlandgirl)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2000, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-brits-defend-your-empire-here/18870/3 "2000-05-08T01:19:16Z")
Here are some more sites backing me up [http://members.tripod.com/boroo/Conquerors.html](http://members.tripod.com/boroo/Conquerors.html) \* \*Chingis Khan established Mongol Empire, the greatest land empire of world hisory in thirteenth century. 1. Chingis Khan (1162-1227)-----4,860,000 - Here’s another set of stats. I can keep them coming. ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2000, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-brits-defend-your-empire-here/18870/4 "2000-05-08T01:22:28Z")
OK, admittedly, so far this is not so much a debate as a soliloquy, but here are some maps of the Mongol Empire: [http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Forum/2532/page4.html](http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Forum/2532/page4.html) Game over, I say. The British Empire _appears_ to be the larger of the two. I would still like to see numbers, though… ---
**Author:** ![pepperlandgirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f17d59/32.png) [@pepperlandgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pepperlandgirl)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2000, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-brits-defend-your-empire-here/18870/5 "2000-05-08T01:34:57Z")
Around 1200, the grandson of Genghis Khan, Kubilai, governed about 70% of the known land. It has never existed someone with greater power. Kubilai’s dominances spread from Japan to Venice, and from the cold Siberia to the Large African lakes. Ok, here is the last site I found. It convinced me. [http://www.angelfire.com/mo/QBranch/Empire.html](http://www.angelfire.com/mo/QBranch/Empire.html) ---
**Author:** ![pepperlandgirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f17d59/32.png) [@pepperlandgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pepperlandgirl)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2000, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-brits-defend-your-empire-here/18870/6 "2000-05-08T01:44:09Z")
[http://landow.stg.brown.edu/victorian/history/empire/ljb2.html](http://landow.stg.brown.edu/victorian/history/empire/ljb2.html) \* Between 1870 and 1900 the formal Empire expanded to occupy an area of 4 million square miles, despite the lack of coherent imperial policies. \* And what I previously posted: \* \*Chingis Khan established Mongol Empire, the greatest land empire of world hisory in thirteenth century. 1. Chingis Khan (1162-1227)-----4,860,000 \* The British Empire-4 Million The Mongolian Empire- 4.8 Million The Winner? \*\* THE MONGOLS \*\* ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2000, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-brits-defend-your-empire-here/18870/7 "2000-05-08T01:50:35Z")
**pepperlandgirl** - The last site you linked may convince you, but it doesn’t convince me. 😉 The map of the Mongol Empire in that link actually shows a land area which wouldn’t come close to that of the British Empire. And this business of the Mongol Empire stretching to _Venice_??? Please. It appears that the estimates of the size of the Mongol Empire are all over the map, so to speak. The maps you and I have linked do not appear to be in agreement on the issue. I still say that even with the most generous (to the Mongols) map, the British Empire is still larger. I also notice that a couple of your links seem to hedge by using the phrase “the largest _land_ empire.” What does that mean, I wonder? The largest Empire conquered over land? The largest contiguous empire? Why didn’t they just say the largest empire ever, if that’s what they meant? I think maybe that when some of your sources talk about empires, they are talking about _ancient_ empires, and aren’t even taking the British into account. I guess our British friends are sleeping at this hour. Maybe some will check in to help us by tomorrow. ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2000, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-brits-defend-your-empire-here/18870/8 "2000-05-08T01:54:42Z")
Hmmmm… **pepperlandgirl** , You came up with some hard numbers while I was composing my last post. Being stubborn, though, I will not admit defeat. 😉 I still think there’s enough doubt about the extent of the Mongol Empire to leave the question open. ---
**Author:** ![gesh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/6de8d8/32.png) [@gesh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gesh)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2000, 8:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-brits-defend-your-empire-here/18870/9 "2000-05-08T08:43:58Z")
I’m a Brit, and I have no idea who’s empire was the biggest but I certainly know that I would fear the Mongols coming more than the British!! ---
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/original/2X/e/e489c3b7d8fce19c4b355dd4fc3f88cc39c34b87.png) [@system](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2000, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-brits-defend-your-empire-here/18870/10 "2000-05-08T14:55:44Z")
Have to disagree with **Gesh.** All the Mongols would do is shoot us full of arrows, but the British would have–Benny Hill! Hey, Genghis! Over here! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![gesh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/6de8d8/32.png) [@gesh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gesh)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2000, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-brits-defend-your-empire-here/18870/11 "2000-05-08T15:10:43Z")
Point taken, I’d forgotten about Benny!!! ---
**Author:** ![Occam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Occam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Occam)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2000, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-brits-defend-your-empire-here/18870/12 "2000-05-08T17:21:05Z")
Pepperlandgirl is using smoke and mirrors here. "\*Chingis Khan established Mongol Empire, the greatest land empire of world hisory in thirteenth century. 1. Chingis Khan (1162-1227)-----4,860,000" Look, all the people you cited are individuals. Chingis may have been the man, but the ‘English’ Empire was establish more through policy then any one person. Canada alone is 3.6 million square miles, India 1.8, Australia 2.9, And Africa is 11.2 to which I say they owned half…so The Brits owned 13.9 million square miles, not including The Isles themselves, their holdings in South America, and Islands scattered all over the Pacific and Atlantic including New Zealand. Pepperlandgirl, find some source that says the Mongols ruled 13.9 mil. sqr. miles at ANY time. ---
**Author:** ![wevets](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e9a140/32.png) [@wevets](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wevets)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2000, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-brits-defend-your-empire-here/18870/13 "2000-05-10T00:35:37Z")
> [@](#): > > Between 1870 and 1900 the formal Empire expanded to occupy an area of 4 million square miles, despite the > lack of coherent imperial policies. The italics didn’t make this easy to clearly read, but once I took them out you can see that the source is only talking about the _expansion_ of the British Empire in a 30 year period. By 1870 the Brits already controlled vast overseas territory, including Canada, Australia, some of India, much of Africa and parts of Asia. Even without the might of Benny Hill, the Brits can be pretty fearsome (I think there’s some media stereotype that plays against this though). They didn’t conquer their empire by sitting around offering each other tea and scones and wearing puffy white wigs. Ever see their soccer fans? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![glee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b5a626/32.png) [@glee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glee)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2000, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-brits-defend-your-empire-here/18870/14 "2000-05-10T01:41:53Z")
How about counting all the territory us Brits controlled over a couple of centuries? Presumably the Mongol hordes might have lost control of some places, while conquering others. This would give us an extra country or two (yes, of course I mean America!) Also, what do you mean by ‘control’? We had taxation (without representation!), governers etc.