# Ok Brutus et al..it wasn't WMD or oil..it was about concern for the Iraqi's right? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 7, 2003, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-brutus-et-al-it-wasnt-wmd-or-oil-it-was-about-concern-for-the-iraqis-right/186878 "2003-07-07T23:07:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Reeder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Reeder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reeder)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2003, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-brutus-et-al-it-wasnt-wmd-or-oil-it-was-about-concern-for-the-iraqis-right/186878/1 "2003-07-07T23:07:37Z")
Then explain this to me please… [http://electroniciraq.net/news/946.shtml](http://electroniciraq.net/news/946.shtml) > [@](#): > > United States occupation forces in Iraq are refusing to treat wounded and sick Iraqis if their injuries are not directly caused by the United States. This shocking behavior is a violation of the Geneva Conventions. If we are so concerned about the Iraq’s y’all tell me why we won’t treat their wounded. How can we not treat them? We run their country. And you can’t say it’s not military policy. I patiently await your weaseling. ---
**Author:** ![Aldebaran](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Aldebaran](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aldebaran)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2003, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-brutus-et-al-it-wasnt-wmd-or-oil-it-was-about-concern-for-the-iraqis-right/186878/2 "2003-07-07T23:56:56Z")
There was information about such incidents earlier, among others about the children mentioned in the article. The immorality and arrogance of these criminal invaders, already unlimited, still seems to increase by the day. I can’t imagine that UK medics would ever react like this. Correct me if I’m wrong here… and give me a heart attack. Aldebaran ---
**Author:** ![Aldebaran](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Aldebaran](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aldebaran)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2003, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-brutus-et-al-it-wasnt-wmd-or-oil-it-was-about-concern-for-the-iraqis-right/186878/3 "2003-07-08T00:02:03Z")
Forgot to mention: Every single one of this kind of incidents happening overthere is directly caused by the invaders. There is nothing “indirectly” about invading and occupying a sovereign nation causing the death of thousands of people and the mutilation of thousands of others. Not one thing. Nothing. They are responsible for every single death and wounded. Aldebaran. ---
**Author:** ![Brutus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/91b2a8/32.png) [@Brutus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brutus)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2003, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-brutus-et-al-it-wasnt-wmd-or-oil-it-was-about-concern-for-the-iraqis-right/186878/4 "2003-07-08T00:27:05Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Reeder \* > \*\*Then explain this to me please… > > If we are so concerned about the Iraq’s y’all tell me why we won’t treat their wounded. How can we not treat them? We run their country. And you can’t say it’s not military policy. > I patiently await your weaseling. \*\* When the hell did I ever say that concern for Iraqis alone is why we should go in? And even in an alternate reality where I did, I don’t believe in ‘universal healthcare’ in America, and I certainly don’t think we should pay for universal healthcare in Iraq. The next time you try to attribute a position to me, take 2 minutes out of your ever-so-busy day, and research a bit. A repost of why I think taking Iraq was the right move: > [@](#): > > Taking Iraq (liberating, whatever) has several long- and short-term benefits for America: > [ul] > [li]Iraq is centrally located to Syria, Iran, and Saudi Arabia. Those three are more of a threat to America than was Iraq, IMO. Now that we have a central position to move from, we can ‘exert pressure’ as needed against those three. Perhaps the first dividend will be reduced support for Hamas and Co. from Syria and Iran, now that Abrams are cruising distance from their capitals?[/li] > The ‘War on Terrorism’ is indeed going to be a long-term affair. We are going to have to do more than topple some half-wits in Afghanistan and a Stalin-wannabe before it is over. Syria, Iran, and Saudi Arabia will have to be ‘liberalised’. Don’t know if that means making them democracies, don’t know if that means making them protectorates. Obviously, the status quo sucks ass. A central position gives us options for the future. > > [li]Middle-Eastern oil will be well guarded. Iraq and Kuwait are safe, as are some of the Gulf States. If the House of Saud ever is toppled, look for American intervention from our newest base, post-haste. Like it or not, a steady flow of reasonably priced oil is crucial to all western economies, especially given the intermingling of economies. [/li] > [li] Even I have a heart. Saddam was a butcher at least at the level of Milosivic. Worse, IMO. Getting rid of Saddam, and his associated Baath regime, is a Good Thing in and of itself.[/li] > [li]Saddam was rumored to have had WMD ;)[/li] > [li](More of a fringe-benefit than a proper reason) A wonderful show of stregnth. When America tells Eastern Slobovia, “No, really, stop sponsoring group X or else…”, the E.Slobovians will jump to, right quick. Whatever people may think of Bush, I doubt any dictators think he is fucking around. [/li][/ul] ---
**Author:** ![Reeder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Reeder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reeder)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2003, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-brutus-et-al-it-wasnt-wmd-or-oil-it-was-about-concern-for-the-iraqis-right/186878/5 "2003-07-08T00:47:52Z")
**Brutus** …You really are cold hearted aren’t you? Totally destroy a country, put our soldiers in harms way just so we can can … A. Threaten others states in the region. B. Take Iraq’s oil. C. Get rid of Saddam, but to hell with the Iraqi people. You think these are worth our soldiers dying? How the hell do you sleep at night? ---
**Author:** ![Reeder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Reeder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reeder)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2003, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-brutus-et-al-it-wasnt-wmd-or-oil-it-was-about-concern-for-the-iraqis-right/186878/6 "2003-07-08T00:51:27Z")
oops…left off D. Get our soldiers killed just so we can tell Eastern Slobovia…See! We will get our soldiers killed fo you too! ---
**Author:** ![Reeder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Reeder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reeder)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2003, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-brutus-et-al-it-wasnt-wmd-or-oil-it-was-about-concern-for-the-iraqis-right/186878/7 "2003-07-08T00:57:02Z")
oops…left off D. Get our soldiers killed just so we can tell Eastern Slobovia…See! We will get our soldiers killed fo you too! ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2003, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-brutus-et-al-it-wasnt-wmd-or-oil-it-was-about-concern-for-the-iraqis-right/186878/8 "2003-07-08T00:59:10Z")
> [@](#): > > …Whatever people may think of Bush, I doubt any dictators think he is fucking around. Well, isn’t that just peachy! Statements like that really call for a music cue, like Village People doing _Macho Man_ Nosiree, Bob, we Americans ain’t wussies, we shoot first and ask questions if we feel like it, kill 'em all, let God sort 'em out. Maybe this kind of hairy-chested troglodyte international policy appeals to you. **Brutus** , but dammit man! its a bunch of romantic macho mush, it is crapola, it is Bushwah! Suppose we had that kind of rep going when the Cuba missile crisis came about? When we want a potential adversary thinking “The Americans are _ready_ for war, but dont _want_ war.” rather than “I’d better hit them first, 'cause sure as hell they’re _gonna_ hit me!” Even if it hasn’t sunk in for you, friend **Brutus** , its sunk in everywhere else: Iraq was _no threat_! Saddam’s “military machine” couldn’t have taken Belgium in a fair fight, they had no Bad Mojo weapons, nor delivery systems, nor anything else that could be _remotely_ considered a threat to the USA! So the most massively armed military force in history, sitting on thousands of thermo-nukes that we can put _anywhere_ at _any time_ is somehow _compelled_ to invade a nation that has taken no hostile action \*whatsoever \*. _This_ is the image you are pleased to project? ---
**Author:** ![Reeder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Reeder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reeder)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2003, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-brutus-et-al-it-wasnt-wmd-or-oil-it-was-about-concern-for-the-iraqis-right/186878/9 "2003-07-08T01:02:07Z")
oops…left off D. Get our soldiers killed just so we can tell Eastern Slobovia…See! We will get our soldiers killed fo you too! ---
**Author:** ![Brutus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/91b2a8/32.png) [@Brutus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brutus)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2003, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-brutus-et-al-it-wasnt-wmd-or-oil-it-was-about-concern-for-the-iraqis-right/186878/10 "2003-07-08T01:25:24Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by elucidator \* > **…Even if it hasn’t sunk in for you, friend Brutus, its sunk in everywhere else: Iraq was _no threat_! Saddam’s “military machine” couldn’t have taken Belgium in a fair fight, they had no Bad Mojo weapons, nor delivery systems, nor anything else that could be _remotely_ considered a threat to the USA!..** **elucidator** , don’t tell me you went to the **Reeder** School of Putting Words in Peoples Mouths. Your posts are…‘colorful’ enough as they are. No need to confabulate. I don’t believe that I said that Iraq was a ‘clear and present danger’, or any such rot. I do think taking Iraq was a great move for America, for all sorts of reasons. I also do think that our approach to governing Iraq is not realistic, but that’s a seperate matter. And **Reeder** , much like Rebel Commands’ impassioned crys to Red Leader, I am asking you to ‘Stay on Target!’. If you want to Pit me for being such an evil cad, do it to it! But _try_ to leave GD for debating. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2003, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-brutus-et-al-it-wasnt-wmd-or-oil-it-was-about-concern-for-the-iraqis-right/186878/11 "2003-07-08T01:26:02Z")
> [@](#): > > Elucidator wrote: > So the most massively armed military force in history, sitting on thousands of thermo-nukes that we can put anywhere at any time is somehow compelled to invade a nation that has taken no hostile action whatsoever . Well, the whole Iraq mess pretty much dates back to the invasion of Kuwait, which **was** a hostile act, no? At the time, I thought it was a poor decision not to “continue to Baghdad” while we had the troops over there. Do you think we made the right decision in '90 to leave S.H. in power? ---
**Author:** ![Aldebaran](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Aldebaran](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aldebaran)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2003, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-brutus-et-al-it-wasnt-wmd-or-oil-it-was-about-concern-for-the-iraqis-right/186878/12 "2003-07-08T01:45:00Z")
If the US ever dares to invade Belgium, I think the US should be prepared to have their own nukes “strategically stored” there pointed at them to hit them first. As for the Iraqy army: I think Hussein didn’t have any reason to even in his wildest dreams consider those strategically stored US nukes in Belgium enough “threat to the national security” to pre-emptive attack Belgium. This not only because although his army outnumbering largely the Belgian military (now only trained for and deployed in peace keeping missions, by the way) Hussein would have found it already difficult to actually transport his military overthere. But in addition to that: Hussein is not Bush, who thinks he is inspired by God to murder thousands of people. Hussein only killed them out of lunaticism and greed. One could in this case even agree with the belief that is so much alive among so many Americans: America is The Greatest in Everything. They have indeed Everything Greater in their President and Government: Greater Lunatics. Greater Greed. Greater Delusionists. Greater Fanatics. Greater Murderers. I’m already waiting for the next Election Circus Show. Take a bet that the Bushy clan wins? I’m already praying for the average American who isn’t part of the Golden Circle Of American Great Capitalism and sees not only his jobs disappear, but has to pay for the Leading Lunatics and their Greedy Murder Plans, if he is so fortunate to have and to keep a job. Aldebaran. ---
**Author:** ![Aldebaran](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Aldebaran](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aldebaran)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2003, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-brutus-et-al-it-wasnt-wmd-or-oil-it-was-about-concern-for-the-iraqis-right/186878/13 "2003-07-08T01:55:54Z")
John Mace, Do you think the US would have got involved there, and in the whole region for that matter, if there wouldn’t have been some slight oil business involved? Aldebaran. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2003, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-brutus-et-al-it-wasnt-wmd-or-oil-it-was-about-concern-for-the-iraqis-right/186878/14 "2003-07-08T02:12:01Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Aldebaran \* > \*\*John Mace, > > Do you think the US would have got involved there, and in the whole region for that matter, if there wouldn’t have been some slight oil business involved? > > Aldebaran. \*\* I guess you better remind OPEC to invite Granada, Somalia, and Yugoslavia to their next neeting. The US gets involved in numerous regions for all kinds of reasons. But I don’t doubt that oil had a lot to do with Gulf War I. What’s wrong with that? Defending allies who are suppliers of a critical commodity to our economy is no sin. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2003, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-brutus-et-al-it-wasnt-wmd-or-oil-it-was-about-concern-for-the-iraqis-right/186878/15 "2003-07-08T02:15:37Z")
> [@](#): > > …I don’t believe that I said that Iraq was a ‘clear and present danger’, or any such rot. I do think taking Iraq was a great move for America, for all sorts of reasons. … I think he is where we have our fundamental difference. You seem to think that a war inflicted upon a soveriegn nation that poses no imminent threat is an acceptable, albeit vigorous, expression of _realpolitick_. I would remind you that we, the Americans, settled that hash a half century ago. We set ourselves up as judge and jury, and tried men for war crimes. We defined a war crime as an aggressive war without threat or provocation. And we hanged some people for it. It was we _ourselves_ who established the principle that aggressive war is a crime, an action no crivilized nation could accept. We acted as moral leaders, and splendidly, IMHO. The principle is well established, commonly recognized and just as commonly broached. The only justification for the Iraq invasion that entertains even a _shred_ of common decency would be a threat, a threat that, apparently, existed only in the fevered imaginations of our leaders. ---
**Author:** ![Aldebaran](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Aldebaran](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aldebaran)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2003, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-brutus-et-al-it-wasnt-wmd-or-oil-it-was-about-concern-for-the-iraqis-right/186878/16 "2003-07-08T02:15:50Z")
Well, I have to disagree here because to me murdering thousands of people out of greed is definitely a sin. Aldebaran. ---
**Author:** ![Monster104](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Monster104](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monster104)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2003, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-brutus-et-al-it-wasnt-wmd-or-oil-it-was-about-concern-for-the-iraqis-right/186878/17 "2003-07-08T02:19:58Z")
> [@](#): > > Even if it hasn’t sunk in for you, friend Brutus, its sunk in everywhere else: Iraq was no threat! Saddam’s “military machine” couldn’t have taken Belgium in a fair fight, they had no Bad Mojo weapons, nor delivery systems, nor anything else that could be remotely considered a threat to the USA! You mean Iraq never _really_ fired banned missiles at coalition forces? Huh. ---
**Author:** ![Aldebaran](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Aldebaran](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aldebaran)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2003, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-brutus-et-al-it-wasnt-wmd-or-oil-it-was-about-concern-for-the-iraqis-right/186878/18 "2003-07-08T02:20:25Z")
Forgot to mention: The members of OPEC at the moment are Algeria, Indonesia, Iran, Iraq, Kuwait, Libya, Nigeria, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, the United Arab Emirates and Venezuela. ---
**Author:** ![Aldebaran](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Aldebaran](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aldebaran)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2003, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-brutus-et-al-it-wasnt-wmd-or-oil-it-was-about-concern-for-the-iraqis-right/186878/19 "2003-07-08T02:35:21Z")
Monster, Iraq didn’t fire so called “banned” missiles to the invaders of its sovereign nation. Because there were none to be fired. They were destroying their missiles- the few that were left- until a few hours before what you called “coalition” and what I call criminal invaders crossed the border. And take notice that those missiles weren’t that horrifically transgressing the limitations, because we speak here of a few kilometers they trangressed the reaching limit. And as Iraqy army specialists declared: that was because they were tested when not armed. So when operational they weren’t transgressing any limits. Yet, Iraq agreed to destroy them and was still busy doing so when the lunatic in lead of the USA gave order to start the butchering of thousands of Iraqis in order to get his claws on the natural resources of their sovereign nation. And of course in order to have the heart of the Middle East as his personal playground to position his (also disposable) soldiers on military bases who are among others built on the most valuable irreplacable, nowhere else to be found craddle of civilisation. Who was even before they started to destroy the landscape on the foot of the Ziggurat was already vandalized, looted, dammaged and sprayed with graffity by US culture-barbarians. Maybe you think Bush and Crew care one bit about the Americans who died and are going to die overthere? Don’t let me laugh. Better said: Don’t let the world laugh. Aldebaran. ---
**Author:** ![Splanky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b2d939/32.png) [@Splanky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Splanky)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2003, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-brutus-et-al-it-wasnt-wmd-or-oil-it-was-about-concern-for-the-iraqis-right/186878/20 "2003-07-08T02:40:02Z")
> [@](#): > > Well, I have to disagree here because to me murdering thousands of people out of greed is definitely a sin. I wouldn’t call it greed; I would call it protecting the single most important resource of modern society. If we defended Kuwait because they had the largest diamond mine in the world, that would be greed. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-brutus-et-al-it-wasnt-wmd-or-oil-it-was-about-concern-for-the-iraqis-right/186878.md?page=2)