# OK Dopers, let's find this fucker **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 15, 2003, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-dopers-lets-find-this-fucker/188718 "2003-07-15T19:22:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![AngelicGemma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/439d5e/32.png) [@AngelicGemma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AngelicGemma)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2003, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-dopers-lets-find-this-fucker/188718/21 "2003-07-16T14:03:56Z")
This story makes me sick! In a busy store why the hell didn’t someone STOP HIM?! ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2003, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-dopers-lets-find-this-fucker/188718/22 "2003-07-16T14:04:43Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Janie Jones \* > **Casey1505, if you are so offended by the inference that Ilsa\_Lund made, then kindly spell out which sort of “prison justice” you think is acceptible.** This isn’t how society treats its prisoners. It is about how a microsociety, made up of the prisoners, treat their members. It ain’t pretty but a short eyes can expect rough treatment in jail including all of what you listed. As one fellow I’ve quoted before put it, “I may be a criminal but I’m also a FATHER.” I call this the “Wisconsin Solution,” after the state of Wisconsin put Jeffrey Dhamer into General Population and he got knifed in the showers. Where general society may fall down is in not protecting those guys from each other, but there are many reasons why it doesn’t. As an unsympathetic jerk I view it as “efficient.” ---
**Author:** ![Ferret\_Herder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e47774/32.png) [@Ferret\_Herder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferret_Herder)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2003, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-dopers-lets-find-this-fucker/188718/23 "2003-07-16T14:17:39Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by AngelicGemma \* > This story makes me sick! In a busy store why the hell didn’t someone STOP HIM?! According to the report on the news last night, it seemed like he picked a spot that wasn’t around anyone else at the time, moved to a second location when there was a chance of being discovered, and did the assaults very quickly. So it doesn’t appear that anyone noticed but said nothing, which would have been horrible. **dropzone** : Nitpick - Dahmer was beaten to death while he was on work duty, cleaning a staff bathroom area. (Ex-Wisconsinite here, and I got the Milwaukee news broadcasts.) And unfortunately, enough “average Joe” types of prisoners get raped/beaten as well, which only serves to harden them and/or mentally unbalance them. I’ll admit to not shedding tears over Dahmer’s death, but for prisoners who stand a chance of release and getting back on the streets to mingle with average citizens again, this isn’t a good thing to have happen to them. ---
**Author:** ![Janie\_Jones](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/13edae/32.png) [@Janie\_Jones](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Janie_Jones)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2003, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-dopers-lets-find-this-fucker/188718/24 "2003-07-16T14:21:19Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by The\_Raven \* > **By the way, HOW FUCKING DARE you insinuate that anyone that wants to be 100% certain that this piece of shit never destroys another life is equivalent to a CHILD RAPIST! I have not “sunk down to his level”.** Please read posts before you reply. I wrote: > [@](#): > > All those who wish “prison justice” on this creep have sunk down to his level. I did **NOT** write: “anyone that wants to be 100% certain that this piece of shit never destroys another life is equivalent to a CHILD RAPIST!” What you’re missing is this. I can (and in fact, do, in this case) advocate that the creep who comitted this crime spend the rest of his life in prison. See? That’s equivalent to your wish of wanting “to be 100% certain that this piece of shit never destroys another life.” Unless, of course, life in prison without parole does not meet your criterion of “100% certain” – due to the possibility that the creep might escape. If that’s your position, then are you in fact advocating that this creep’s “prison justice” include the “blanket party” that **Casey1505** referred to? Simply put, I do **NOT** wish that this creep be subjected to “prison justice” – which we all know can include intimidation, rape, and murder. I wish the punishment to fit the crime … no more, no less. You’d think that someone from Salem, Mass., would be more aware about the downfalls of cruel and unusual punishments … :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2003, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-dopers-lets-find-this-fucker/188718/25 "2003-07-16T14:32:26Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Janie Jones \* > \*\*You’d think that someone from Salem, Mass., would be more aware about the downfalls of cruel and unusual punishments … :rolleyes: \*\* That gave me a giggle! I can imagine the entire population of Salem, well, maybe not the ones in the tourist trade, rising up and saying “THAT WAS 300 YEARS AGO! GET OVER IT, ALREADY!” ---
**Author:** ![Blonde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3be4f8/32.png) [@Blonde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blonde)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2003, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-dopers-lets-find-this-fucker/188718/26 "2003-07-16T14:44:29Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Janie Jones \* > \*\*. I wish the punishment to fit the crime … no more, no less. > \*\* So, let’s see…a fitting punishment for the crime involved here would be? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Raven\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@The\_Raven\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Raven_1)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2003, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-dopers-lets-find-this-fucker/188718/27 "2003-07-16T14:59:24Z")
> [@](#): > > You’d think that someone from Salem, Mass., would be more aware about the downfalls of cruel and unusual punishments … Oh, isn’t she just adorable! Tell ya what, I’ll see your :rolleyes: and raise you a :wally Suppose I was molested. Would that give me some special insight into whether these purveyors of evil should live or die? Do I get the right to hope that they are subjected to the same nightmare that their victims have lived through? All I care about is that child molesters never see the light of day. And frankly I don’t a rat’s ass if these sick fucks get shanked, shivved, punked or whatever they’re calling it these days. If, by fact of their no longer drawing breath, I can be assured that no judicial fuckup or other catastrophe will permit the most evil, perverted and essentially corrupted beasts to walk among us. Laughing at the bleeding heart morons who thought they could be rehabilitated. It’s really very simple. You rape a child, you die. Do you think that when one of these people gets caught by some miracle, it’s the first time they did it? If so, relax your sphincter and listen for the popping sound, then open your eyes and wipe the shit out of them. There’s nothing “cruel or unusual” about it. There is no reason to allow a pedophile to live. Pedophilia cannot be cured. Children are the most vulnerable members of society, and have an entire lifetime before them in which to cope with the aftermath of their violation. Remember how much psychological torture adolescence contained? Now consider that scenario while holding on to shame and guilt and secrets, totally unable to process in any coherent manner what happened to cause this nightmare, why you were victimized and not somebody else. Wondering if you might have been somehow responsible for your own fate in some bizarre fashion. > [@](#): > > I wish the punishment to fit the crime … no more, no less. I agree. -Rav ---
**Author:** ![Janie\_Jones](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/13edae/32.png) [@Janie\_Jones](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Janie_Jones)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2003, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-dopers-lets-find-this-fucker/188718/28 "2003-07-16T15:01:42Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Blonde \* > \*\*So, let’s see…a fitting punishment for the crime involved here would be? \*\* A lengthy prison term, but without the extra punishment of “prison justice” – in any of its varieties discussed here. Really, people, do your sick fantasies of revenge: A) Raise your level of humanity? or B) Lower your level of humanity? I know what my answer is. ---
**Author:** ![ouisey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/9fc29f/32.png) [@ouisey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ouisey)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2003, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-dopers-lets-find-this-fucker/188718/29 "2003-07-16T15:01:42Z")
The thing is…what do I tell my eight year old son to do in this situation? I don’t want him to be too terrified to talk to anyone, and I want him to respect authority, but what do you do in these situations? I know its one incident out of the billions of normal things we do every day, but the thought of this happening to your child is so terrifying. ---
**Author:** ![Janie\_Jones](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/13edae/32.png) [@Janie\_Jones](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Janie_Jones)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2003, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-dopers-lets-find-this-fucker/188718/30 "2003-07-16T15:08:18Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by The\_Raven \* > **Pedophilia cannot be cured.** False statements do not advance your position. ---
**Author:** ![Casey1505](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/dc4da7/32.png) [@Casey1505](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Casey1505)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2003, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-dopers-lets-find-this-fucker/188718/31 "2003-07-16T15:23:37Z")
> [@](#): > > A lengthy prison term, but without the extra punishment of “prison justice” – in any of its varieties discussed here. It’d be great if it were that simple. It’s not. This “prison justice” that disgusts you so much, is meted out by hardened criminals, serving many, many years behind bars, probably with no hope of ever seeing the light of day again, who for whatever reason still hold on to the belief that children are not to be preyed upon. This is their “society”, such as it is, and the rules are much different. What’s it matter to Joe Criminal, in for 4 consecutive life terms for murder, if he gets more years added on for breaking the jaw of or beating senseless or cutting the throat of a guy who did unspeakable things to a 4 year old, who might get out in 20 years and do it again? ---
**Author:** ![Master\_Wang-Ka](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/master_wang-ka/32/3325_2.png) [@Master\_Wang-Ka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Master_Wang-Ka)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2003, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-dopers-lets-find-this-fucker/188718/32 "2003-07-16T15:33:58Z")
It occurs to me that anyone desperate and crazy enough to molest a child in the middle of a freakin’ Target store is GOING to get caught, and likely before too terribly long. Better sooner than later, though. This guy deserves worse than he’s gonna get. ---
**Author:** ![Casey1505](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/dc4da7/32.png) [@Casey1505](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Casey1505)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2003, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-dopers-lets-find-this-fucker/188718/33 "2003-07-16T15:36:57Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Janie Jones \* > \*\*False statements do not advance your position. \*\* [Pedophelia is not curable.](http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/healthscience/134443626_pedophilia28.html) [Pedophelia cannot be cured.](http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/6647/pedo.html) [There is no cure for pedophelia.](http://www.megannicolekankafoundation.org/rtk.htm) ---
**Author:** ![Janie\_Jones](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/13edae/32.png) [@Janie\_Jones](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Janie_Jones)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2003, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-dopers-lets-find-this-fucker/188718/34 "2003-07-16T15:48:55Z")
I don’t dispute the reality of what happens in prison. Nowhere have I said as much. What I can’t understand is the shrugging of the shoulders with an “Eh, so what? It’s fellow criminals doing the beating, so I don’t worry about it much.” Would it matter to you if the prison guards metted out the “prison justice” instead of the prisoners? Here’s my problem with “prison justice.” Step one: A justice system has decided that the punishment for a crime is X years in prison. Step two: A prison creep or a gang of prison creeps **overrules** the court’s sentence and decides that the **TRUE** punishment for the crime is X years in prison **PLUS** multiple beatings, rape, assault, and maybe even death. I, for one, prefer to have a state-controlled justice system (even with its imperfections) to decide what punishments fit what crimes. Not a bunch of prison creeps. I guess I’m just funny that way. ---
**Author:** ![lieu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c2a13f/32.png) [@lieu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lieu)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2003, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-dopers-lets-find-this-fucker/188718/35 "2003-07-16T15:57:42Z")
I’m more than a little concerned the girl’s mother would allow her to be out of her sight long enough for this to happen. NASA’s working on enhancing the photo in hopes of redistributing a clearer image ot the public. I care not what happens to the guy once he’s in prison. Let’s just get the son of a bitch off the street. ---
**Author:** ![Casey1505](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/dc4da7/32.png) [@Casey1505](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Casey1505)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2003, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-dopers-lets-find-this-fucker/188718/36 "2003-07-16T16:15:58Z")
> [@](#): > > Would it matter to you if the prison guards metted out the “prison justice” instead of the prisoners? Yep. They are members of the same society that I live in. They are paid not nearly enough money to go into a foreign society, understaffed and underprotected, and attempt to maintian order, while trying to protect themselves and each other. He is paid to abide by the laws and regulations of civilized society, while protecting us from those who chose to remove themselves from that society. That’s not to say that some guy spending 3 days in jail for DUI or nonpayment of child support or whatever is automatically going to be beaten and raped, or even that a child molester will. This guy may get through his sentence (assuming he’s caught and convicted) unscathed by his fellow inmates. I find that very unlikely, though. Chances are, he’ll be kept isolated since he is a child molester, but once word gets out or he’s incorporated into the general prision population, he’s not going to have an easy go of it. The fear of this prison society is what discourages most people from committing crimes. The prision society that passes out is own form of justice (rightly or wrongly) is enough of a deterrent for a majority of civilized society to keep them within the boundaries of law. I know several prison guards, some in county prisons, some in state prisons, and a couple in a federal system, and it would bother me if they beat a guy in prison. If they had to do it because they were attacked, that’s different. But if they played judge, jury, and executioner, I would be upset. ---
**Author:** ![Janie\_Jones](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/13edae/32.png) [@Janie\_Jones](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Janie_Jones)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2003, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-dopers-lets-find-this-fucker/188718/37 "2003-07-16T16:22:46Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Casey1505 \* > \*\*[Pedophelia is not curable.](http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/healthscience/134443626_pedophilia28.html) > [Pedophelia cannot be cured.](http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/6647/pedo.html) > [There is no cure for pedophelia.](http://www.megannicolekankafoundation.org/rtk.htm) \*\* The Jury is Still Out: [NY Academy of Sciences](http://members.nyas.org/events/conference/conf_02_0607.html#link8) [MHAMic](http://www.mhamic.org/treatment/effectiveness.htm) [North Country Times](http://www.nctimes.net/news/2002/20020707/54223.html) And from the AMA: > [@](#): > > The Council on Scientific Affairs of the American Medical Association writes that studies of the effectiveness of aversion therapy and covert sensitization with pedophiles parallel those with homosexuality: they are inconsistent and suffer from significant methodological problems, so that **firm conclusions cannot be drawn.** _Bolding mine._ (Council on Scientific Affairs of the American Medical Association, “Aversion therapy,” Journal of the American Medical Association, vol. 258, no. 18 (November 13), 1987, pp. 2562-2565.) But perhaps we’re talking past each other. When you said that “pedophilia cannot be cured” did you mean that a person’s sexual attraction to minors cannot be altered, or did you mean that a person with a sexual attraction to minors cannot be taught not to ACT on that sexual attraction? If the former, I think the evidence is pretty clear that a person is hard-wired by the age of five or so as to what he or she finds sexually attractive. You’re gay/straight ? Decided by age five. Find children sexually attractive? Decided by age five. But if you meant that a person who is hard-wired to find children sexually attractive cannot be treated to never act on those feelings, then your absolute statement is wrong. It’s very hard, granted, but not impossible as such an absolute statement implies. Hmmm … is this hijack heading into GD territory? ---
**Author:** ![Anamorphic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/anamorphic/32/3057_2.png) [@Anamorphic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anamorphic)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2003, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-dopers-lets-find-this-fucker/188718/38 "2003-07-16T16:31:11Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by lieu \* > **I’m more than a little concerned the girl’s mother would allow her to be out of her sight long enough for this to happen.** Well, the girl was 11, not exactly a toddler. Certainly old enough to be able to spend some time out of the mother’s sight in a store, particularly a well-lit, well-traveled one like Target. I don’t think the mother can be faulted here. ---
**Author:** ![Janie\_Jones](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/13edae/32.png) [@Janie\_Jones](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Janie_Jones)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2003, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-dopers-lets-find-this-fucker/188718/39 "2003-07-16T16:31:59Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Casey1505 \* > **The prision society that passes out is own form of justice _ghtly or wrongly)_ is enough of a deterrent for a majority of civilized society to keep them within the boundaries of law.** Italics mine. Rightly or wrongly? Really? A wrong is a wrong in my book, whether it is committed by Mother Theresa or Charles Manson. I guess we have different books. ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2003, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-dopers-lets-find-this-fucker/188718/40 "2003-07-16T16:32:06Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Janie Jones \* > \*\*A lengthy prison term, but without the extra punishment of “prison justice” – in any of its varieties discussed here. > > Really, people, do your sick fantasies of revenge: > > A) Raise your level of humanity? > > or > > B) Lower your level of humanity? > > I know what my answer is. \*\* AFAIK, sick fantasies of revenge are part and parcel of the human experience. So, I’m not sure if it has any effect on my humanity. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-dopers-lets-find-this-fucker/188718.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-dopers-lets-find-this-fucker/188718.md?page=3)