# OK, I don't get the appeal of Buffy **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [February 20, 2014, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-i-dont-get-the-appeal-of-buffy/681763 "2014-02-20T02:10:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2014, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-i-dont-get-the-appeal-of-buffy/681763/41 "2014-02-21T21:48:57Z")
I never got in to it. Part of it was that when it was on, I was acutely aware of how squarely it was aimed at my demographic, and the other part is that I just plain don’t enjoy snappy or clever dialog. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2014, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-i-dont-get-the-appeal-of-buffy/681763/42 "2014-02-21T22:08:05Z")
I think of Joss Whedon’s snark as kind of like iambic pentameter. Sure, real people don’t actually talk like that, but it’s still fun to listen to. ---
**Author:** ![Garula](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ea666f/32.png) [@Garula](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Garula)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2014, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-i-dont-get-the-appeal-of-buffy/681763/43 "2014-02-22T16:02:13Z")
The snarky dialogue on Buffy may be completely unrealistic, but it’s miles more plausible than the stuff said by Aaron Sorkin penned characters. ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2014, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-i-dont-get-the-appeal-of-buffy/681763/44 "2014-02-22T16:17:02Z")
Be that as it may, I dislike clever dialog. I don’t find it entertaining. ---
**Author:** ![Doctor\_Why\_Bother](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e19adc/32.png) [@Doctor\_Why\_Bother](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doctor_Why_Bother)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2014, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-i-dont-get-the-appeal-of-buffy/681763/45 "2014-02-22T16:39:50Z")
> [@](#): > > Sarah Michelle Geller is a very mediocre actress whose idea of acting is gritting her teeth and enunciating words through a clenched jaw to show she is mad or sad or feeling strong emotions (which also seems to be most of the acting repertoire of her sister Dawn). It’s obviously a matter of opinion, but I thought her performance in the episode when her mother died was one of the best I’ve ever seen on television, and I’m including everything I’ve ever seen on The Wire, Treme, Boardwalk Empire, and Breaking Bad. The first ten minutes of that episode left me genuinely shaken. That very rarely happens. ---
**Author:** ![gracer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8e7dd6/32.png) [@gracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gracer)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2014, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-i-dont-get-the-appeal-of-buffy/681763/46 "2014-02-22T19:08:18Z")
> [@Cartoonacy](#): > > _Person of Interest_ Thanks for the tip, I’ll try that! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Meloy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/58f4c7/32.png) [@Meloy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meloy)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2014, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-i-dont-get-the-appeal-of-buffy/681763/47 "2014-02-22T20:09:19Z")
> [@even\_sven](#): > > Be that as it may, I dislike clever dialog. I don’t find it entertaining. I am having trouble understanding how someone can dislike cleverness. Can you explain? ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2014, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-i-dont-get-the-appeal-of-buffy/681763/48 "2014-02-22T20:17:35Z")
> [@Meloy](#): > > I am having trouble understanding how someone can dislike cleverness. Can you explain? I don’t have a general dislike of cleverness. I’m just bored with Whedon’s typical style of clever dialogue. ---
**Author:** ![LibrarySpy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f9ae1b/32.png) [@LibrarySpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LibrarySpy)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2014, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-i-dont-get-the-appeal-of-buffy/681763/49 "2014-02-22T20:22:44Z")
> [@Cartoonacy](#): > > Person of Interest _Person of Interest_ is pretty much the bleakest show on television right now. (I haven’t seen the Walking Dead) It’s deeply existential with some light moments. Tread carefully. And watch in order. And yeah, dude, when I realized after a season I didn’t like Angel because it was too masculine/man pain for my tastes, I just stopped watching it. It’s okay not to connect. No need to watch 12 seasons of it just in case you’re missing something. You won’t be. ---
**Author:** ![KneadToKnow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kneadtoknow/32/3999_2.png) [@KneadToKnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KneadToKnow)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2014, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-i-dont-get-the-appeal-of-buffy/681763/50 "2014-02-22T20:23:45Z")
I could have watched the first season of _Angel_ just for the Batman references. ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2014, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-i-dont-get-the-appeal-of-buffy/681763/51 "2014-02-22T20:42:52Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > I’m just bored with Whedon’s typical style of clever dialogue. I watched the first episode and decided against becoming a regular viewer because I found the “clever dialogue” to be unappealing. And it wasn’t just the words, but the acting style…that _“I’m on the edge of hysteria but am quipping away bravely”_ style that all three lead performers used for practically every line. Or so it seemed to me. I even found myself speculating on the question of who was influenced by whom; I concluded that Alyson Hannigan was the alpha and Sarah Michelle Gellar and Nicholas Brendon were unconsciously aping her. Anyway, by the end of the season, friends were urging me to watch. So I gave it another try in season two and liked it better. The “on the edge of hysteria” line readings were still annoying, but I got into the plotting. And I began to treasure the show as one of the few that (at least occasionally) really examined the structure of the art of storytelling. I liked the shows already mentioned as excellent (“The Body,” “Hush,” and “Once More With Feeling”) and I liked the more meta episodes even better. For example, “The Zeppo,” though deplorably clueless about the actual merits of Zeppo Marx, did a great job of parodying BtVS’s own “glories of heroic action” tropes. So I ended up buying the entire series on DVD. It IS possible to value the show while still being less-than-fond of the Snappy Dialogue style. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2014, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-i-dont-get-the-appeal-of-buffy/681763/52 "2014-02-22T22:28:16Z")
To be fair, the first few episodes are very weak on terms of acting and dialogue compared to the subsequent ones. In the pilot, Boreanaz and Gellar’s acting was the worst. Not even acting, really. Just reciting lines like in '70s porn movies. ---
**Author:** ![Southern\_Yankee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/southern_yankee/32/2800_2.png) [@Southern\_Yankee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Southern_Yankee)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2014, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-i-dont-get-the-appeal-of-buffy/681763/53 "2014-02-22T22:46:40Z")
Adult male who loved it. The scene in the finale of Season 2 (I think… forgive me, it’s been a long time…) where Angelus turns back into Angel, and Buffy realizes it, but has to kill him anyway to keep the Hellmouth closed slayed me… (pun intended.) ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2014, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-i-dont-get-the-appeal-of-buffy/681763/54 "2014-02-23T00:59:05Z")
> [@Meloy](#): > > I am having trouble understanding how someone can dislike cleverness. Can you explain? I’m not against cleverness. I like it when my friends are clever. There are a few clever podcasts I like. But clever dialog in movies? I find it obnoxious and distracting. Always have. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2014, 5:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-i-dont-get-the-appeal-of-buffy/681763/55 "2014-02-23T05:10:29Z")
> [@Ethilrist](#): > > A friend of mine pointed out that Joss has, at most, three seasons in any given idea. The first three seasons of Buffy were pretty good because they were able to play off the “high school vampire slayer” bit. Once she graduated, there wasn’t much point to continue. I think that might be it. I like the beginning but the next few seasons were weak enough that I noticed how mediocre an actress Buffy was. > [@](#): > > Angel started out pretty well, but I think it was situational I think I liked angel better too. > [@Maserschmidt](#): > > You have to admit, the fact that you watched all seven seasons despite “not getting it” indicates _something_ was going on that interested you. I watched all of Lost too. The first season or two hooks you and you keep watching, hoping it gets good again. And to be fair, the last few seasons of buffy were pretty good. > [@Simplicio](#): > > You spent 170 hours watching a TV show you don’t like? That’s…kinda insane. I didn’t NOT like it, but I didn’t get why it was a big deal. Why it launched Joss Whedon into the pantheon of “awesome” > [@Southern\_Yankee](#): > > Adult male who loved it. The scene in the finale of Season 2 (I think… forgive me, it’s been a long time..) where Angelus turns back into Angel, and Buffy realizes it, but has to kill him anyway to keep the Hellmouth closed slayed me… (pun intended.) That was a pretty good scene but then Angel had to come back. And then all that teeth gnashing angst OMFG. ---
**Author:** ![gracer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8e7dd6/32.png) [@gracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gracer)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2014, 9:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-i-dont-get-the-appeal-of-buffy/681763/56 "2014-02-23T09:26:30Z")
> [@Cartoonacy](#): > > _Person of Interest_ > [@gracer](#): > > Thanks for the tip, I’ll try that! 🙂 > [@LibrarySpy](#): > > _Person of Interest_ is pretty much the bleakest show on television right now. (I haven’t seen the Walking Dead) It’s deeply existential with some light moments. Tread carefully. > > And watch in order. Wait, what? Cartoonacy, were you being a meany? ☹ ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2014, 12:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-i-dont-get-the-appeal-of-buffy/681763/57 "2014-02-23T12:50:15Z")
> [@GargoyleWB](#): > > I watched it during the original run and, compared to its contemporaries, it was really fresh and unique. Also, DVRs were more-or-less nowhere and prior seasons weren’t cheaply available (i.e. no Netflix). Having a meta-season plot and character development was really a hard act to pull off in those days. > > It also, in my crowd of the time, turned into a bit of a social event (“Who’s hosting Buffy night this week?”). > > I have fondness for the show, but now that much of TV series production has adopted the Whedonization tropes pioneered by Buffy, I think newbie viewers watching marathons of the show would feel it to be dated and erratic. It’s still better than 90% of anything else ever made, though, and I would recommend it over any other Whedon TV series with the sole exception of Firefly. Yes, this. Buffy now suffers from the Godfather Syndrome. They did their thing first, and were amazing and original. In the decades since, they have been an influence on so many other works that they now appear derivative to new viewers. Also, pacing. Because of the joining of arc plot and the monster of the week subplot, watching the show on demand today is not the same storytelling experience it was when it first aired. This is most noticeable in the final season, which felt dragged on forever with interminable whinging and St Crispining when it was broadcast, but now watched several episodes at a time or in one week feels so fast paced I can’t catch my breath. There’s a similar effect in the earlier seasons, although not quite as profound. Sometimes this works to the story’s benefit, and sometimes its detriment. ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2014, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-i-dont-get-the-appeal-of-buffy/681763/58 "2014-02-23T13:27:41Z")
“whinging and St Crispining”? [From a later season](http://www.slayageonline.com/EBS/intertexts_allusions/r-t/stcrispinsdayspeech.htm): > [@](#): > > Before setting off to confront Glory in “The Gift” Buffy gives the following “speech” to the Scooby Gang: > > Buffy: Everybody knows their jobs. Remember, the ritual starts, we all die. And I’ll kill anyone who comes near Dawn… > > Spike: Well, not exactly the St. Crispin’s Day speech, was it? > > Giles: “We few, we happy few . . . .” > > Spike: “. . . . we band of buggered.” Yet another small reason I love the show. (Yes, I like clever dialogue. I like screwball comedies, too.) Still, I can understand that others don’t like it. Just wondering why they bothered watching seven seasons of _Buffy_–and five of _Ange_l–if they didn’t. ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2014, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-i-dont-get-the-appeal-of-buffy/681763/59 "2014-02-23T13:48:44Z")
> [@Bridget\_Burke](#): > > “whinging and St Crispining”? [From a later season](http://www.slayageonline.com/EBS/intertexts_allusions/r-t/stcrispinsdayspeech.htm): (Whinging was actually an autocorrect, but sure, I’ll take it. Makes me look like a stuffy British librarian. 😉 ) Yeah, lots of speechifying in season 7. As it aired, I recall feeling like the whole season went, “Wah, Buffy’s depressed…time for a speech to rally the troops. Wah, Buffy’s sad, life isn’t fair, this stuff is hard…time for another speech…Wah, Buffy’s PMSing, good lord, another speech?” My eyeballs nearly got lost under the couch from all the eyerolling. But as I say, I really really like the pacing when it’s watched in a binge. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2014, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-i-dont-get-the-appeal-of-buffy/681763/60 "2014-02-23T14:05:19Z")
Yeah, I watched most of the series when it was originally broadcast, but the final season could not hold my interest. I’ve still not watched most of it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-i-dont-get-the-appeal-of-buffy/681763.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-i-dont-get-the-appeal-of-buffy/681763.md?page=4)