# Ok I give up: What is with every restaurant serving automatic bread appitizers? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 16, 2011, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-i-give-up-what-is-with-every-restaurant-serving-automatic-bread-appitizers/578656 "2011-04-16T21:44:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 8\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2011, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-i-give-up-what-is-with-every-restaurant-serving-automatic-bread-appitizers/578656/21 "2011-04-17T15:09:29Z")
> [@Lynn\_Bodoni](#): > > Salads used to be served near the end of the meal. However, a salad can be prepared more quickly than most non-microwaved entrees, so restaurants started serving salads before the entree, and claimed that it was for the convenience of busy diners. When did that happen? As long as I can remember salads were always served before the entree. I’m only 40 though, so maybe you’re a lot older than me or are referencing something anecdotal from someone older that you know? > [@Chefguy](#): > > **Ever wonder why there will be one or two steaks on a menu that go for $40, while everything else is $25?** Because it makes you ignore the fact that $25 for a steak is also outrageous. > > Or $150 for a bottle of wine? Does anybody really think most restaurants keep a cellar full of that product? No, they keep a cellar full of the $35 wine, because that’s what you’ll think is a good price after seeing the $150 bottle, even though you can pick up the same thing in a grocery store for $14.95. Is that really true, though? Steaks are a really high food cost item. On a mixed menu, if that restaurant sold nothing but the steak they would probably go out of business. Their margin on the $25 chicken or $20 pasta dish is much better than on a steak. As for wines, restaurant markup on those (and all alcohol, really) is staggeringly high and has been forever. ---
**Author:** ![Lynn\_Bodoni](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e47c2d/32.png) [@Lynn\_Bodoni](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lynn_Bodoni)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2011, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-i-give-up-what-is-with-every-restaurant-serving-automatic-bread-appitizers/578656/22 "2011-04-17T18:49:35Z")
> [@](#): > > When did that happen? As long as I can remember salads were always served before the entree. I’m only 40 though, so maybe you’re a lot older than me or are referencing something anecdotal from someone older that you know? I’m 53, and I read old etiquette books…and I remember that a few of them dismissed the new custom of serving a salad first. These old books also recommended something like four to seven courses. I THINK that the salad course changed from #3 or 4 to #1 sometime in the 1920s, but it’s been a while since I’ve read the articles. ---
**Author:** ![Mister\_Rik](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mister_rik/32/491_2.png) [@Mister\_Rik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mister_Rik)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2011, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-i-give-up-what-is-with-every-restaurant-serving-automatic-bread-appitizers/578656/23 "2011-04-17T19:00:51Z")
> [@FoieGrasIsEvil](#): > > Is that really true, though? Steaks are a really high food cost item. On a mixed menu, if that restaurant sold nothing but the steak they would probably go out of business. Their margin on the $25 chicken or $20 pasta dish is much better than on a steak. Yup. I once cooked in a restaurant that sold (at the time) a 20 oz. porterhouse steak with fries for $8.99. The place made all its money on booze sales after getting people in the door with the cheap steak. ---
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2011, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-i-give-up-what-is-with-every-restaurant-serving-automatic-bread-appitizers/578656/24 "2011-04-17T23:35:17Z")
I always hear that in Italy salads still come last , after the main dish. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2011, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-i-give-up-what-is-with-every-restaurant-serving-automatic-bread-appitizers/578656/25 "2011-04-18T01:35:07Z")
> [@FoieGrasIsEvil](#): > > When did that happen? As long as I can remember salads were always served before the entree. I’m only 40 though, so maybe you’re a lot older than me or are referencing something anecdotal from someone older that you know? > > Is that really true, though? Steaks are a really high food cost item. On a mixed menu, if that restaurant sold nothing but the steak they would probably go out of business. Their margin on the $25 chicken or $20 pasta dish is much better than on a steak. > > As for wines, restaurant markup on those (and all alcohol, really) is staggeringly high and has been forever. The psychology behind this is pretty sound. You thinking you’re being clever by avoiding the high-priced meal=better self esteem, particularly if the meal turns out to be good. The truth is that you’re almost always being WAY overcharged, even for the cheaper meals. But that’s okay, if you’re happy with the meal AND you’ve cleverly avoided the $40 trap. If the restaurant actually sells a few of those $40 steaks, it’s a bonus, but they’d rather sell 200 steaks at the lower price. If everything was $40, nobody would go there unless they had more money than brains. Substitute any prices or food items you like in this paragraph: the outcome is the same. ---
**Author:** ![gaffa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e68b1a/32.png) [@gaffa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gaffa)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2011, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-i-give-up-what-is-with-every-restaurant-serving-automatic-bread-appitizers/578656/26 "2011-04-18T02:06:53Z")
> [@Lynn\_Bodoni](#): > > I’m 53, and I read old etiquette books…and I remember that a few of them dismissed the new custom of serving a salad first. These old books also recommended something like four to seven courses. I THINK that the salad course changed from #3 or 4 to #1 sometime in the 1920s, but it’s been a while since I’ve read the articles. The last meal the first class passengers on the Titanic ate, the 8th course was Cold Asparagus Vinaigrette. ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2011, 3:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-i-give-up-what-is-with-every-restaurant-serving-automatic-bread-appitizers/578656/27 "2011-04-18T03:48:46Z")
> [@Chefguy](#): > > The psychology behind this is pretty sound. You thinking you’re being clever by avoiding the high-priced meal=better self esteem, particularly if the meal turns out to be good. The truth is that you’re almost always being WAY overcharged, even for the cheaper meals. But that’s okay, if you’re happy with the meal AND you’ve cleverly avoided the $40 trap. If the restaurant actually sells a few of those $40 steaks, it’s a bonus, but they’d rather sell 200 steaks at the lower price. If everything was $40, nobody would go there unless they had more money than brains. Substitute any prices or food items you like in this paragraph: the outcome is the same. I understand that there is a psychological aspect to this, but I was referencing more of a sheer food cost perspective from a kitchen POV in that operating in a corporate environment dictates rigid food cost percentages, and my example of a restaurant that had a menu that covered a lot of bases would in fact go out of business if they only sold their overpriced steak because even though they charge a lot, they pay a lot in food cost and often labor to obtain and prepare quality beef. I was mostly referencing what’s known as a “menu mix” which prices your offerings in such a way as to maximize profit. In other words, your steak is a loss leader and the hope is that by offering such an item that you will get enough push on not only alcohol but your seemingly less expensive items that actually generate more profit from a food cost perspective. Pasta dishes generally rule that realm as the key ingredient in them is so fucking cheap. ---
**Author:** ![Marc\_Xenos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e9a140/32.png) [@Marc\_Xenos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marc_Xenos)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2011, 6:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-i-give-up-what-is-with-every-restaurant-serving-automatic-bread-appitizers/578656/28 "2011-04-18T06:04:16Z")
> [@sassyfras](#): > > Every restaurant it seems drops a basket of ‘bread’ on your table, willy nilly, free of charge. In the 60’s, every entree came with two dinner rolls. The only reason I remember this is because, as a busboy in high school, on busy nights we had to “rescue” the obviously untouched rolls as the bread ovens couldn’t keep up with the demand. Even though we weren’t “supposed” to, there was too much screaming from customers deprived of their dinner rolls (that many of them obviously didn’t bother with). Serve them before the meal, or with the meal, either way, they’re not free. And obviously, it didn’t cut into dessert profits back then or now. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-i-give-up-what-is-with-every-restaurant-serving-automatic-bread-appitizers/578656.md?page=1)