# OK, I need a divorce primer **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [June 29, 2003, 5:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-i-need-a-divorce-primer/185103 "2003-06-29T05:25:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Eva\_Luna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e495f1/32.png) [@Eva\_Luna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eva_Luna)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2003, 11:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-i-need-a-divorce-primer/185103/42 "2003-07-03T11:20:26Z")
You know, one more thought: the mere fact of talking to a lawyer does not mean you will end up divorced. It will, however, give you a better idea of what your options are and all the possible custody/finance scenarios. There’s the legal separation idea, too, rather than simply moving out of the house into a hotel. Disclaimer: I’ve never been married, let alone divorced, but my parents have four divorces and five marriages between them (not only with each other, of course). ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2003, 12:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-i-need-a-divorce-primer/185103/43 "2003-07-03T12:47:58Z")
Nowadays, I think most courts don’t award alimony if both parties are working. If she’s a stay-at-home mom, you will have to support her as well as your son, at least for a while. I think a friend of mine had to support his wife for a year while she got on her feet. My Uncle-in-law divorced at the age of 70, so he’s paying alimony for the rest of her life. I am not a lawyer, but I play one on the SDMB. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![squeegee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/squeegee/32/14537_2.png) [@squeegee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/squeegee)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2003, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-i-need-a-divorce-primer/185103/44 "2003-07-04T01:18:53Z")
On spousal support in CA, are there any guidelines? If, say, he makes $100k and she makes $20k for example? Is there a formula for how much dollars and for how long, or is it simply a matter of how nasty a lawyer each side is willing to hire? ---
**Author:** ![Syntropy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/65b543/32.png) [@Syntropy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Syntropy)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2003, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-i-need-a-divorce-primer/185103/45 "2003-07-04T02:57:38Z")
There is one for child support, **squeegee**. You can find it in the back of that do-it-yourself divorce book. It is based on the amount of time you spend with your child. I am not sure about spousal support, as I didn’t ask for it; I wouldn’t have gotten it. I make more than he does. But the book does cover spousal support as well. Definitely hit a bookstore this weekend. ---
**Author:** ![rhysean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ac8455/32.png) [@rhysean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rhysean)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2003, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-i-need-a-divorce-primer/185103/46 "2003-07-04T03:16:52Z")
My parents had joint custody of me. I lived 50/50 with each of them. On the whole, it was good. They never spoke against each other (or at least not until I was an adult & could handle it!). I never felt I had to choose between them. They both remarried happily and I gained many siblings, both half & step (which was good, as I’d always longed not to be an only)… ---
**Author:** ![danceswithcats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9e8a1a/32.png) [@danceswithcats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/danceswithcats)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2003, 4:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-i-need-a-divorce-primer/185103/47 "2003-07-04T04:31:59Z")
Rule #1 for men in a divorce: **No matter what, you’re fucked.** Rule #2 for men in a divorce: **Despite your lawyer’s fees, Rule #1 applies.** Rule #3 for men in a divorce: **Should something appear to be a break in your favor, it will be reversed at a later date and a penalty will be applied.** Repeat Rule #1 as a _mantra_ in hope of processing the matter successfully. ---
**Author:** ![squeegee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/squeegee/32/14537_2.png) [@squeegee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/squeegee)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2003, 5:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-i-need-a-divorce-primer/185103/48 "2003-07-04T05:02:21Z")
**danceswithcats** – well, yeah. That was my first expectation when I posted the OP. I’m not sure I’d put it that negatively, but I’m not sure I’d disagree. And now, my marriage ship about to collide with the asteroid, I’m trying to figure out how to reduce damage (or avoid it altogether) and survive the collision. Suggestions about retro rockets or salvage values and such are helpful; shouting “we’re doomed, cap’n!” probably is not. 🙂 That having been said: point taken. ---
**Author:** ![squeegee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/squeegee/32/14537_2.png) [@squeegee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/squeegee)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2003, 5:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-i-need-a-divorce-primer/185103/49 "2003-07-04T05:10:50Z")
**rhysean** - actually, my own parents split when I was about 13. I had a tough time with it then. And now, 27 years later, they’ve both long ago been remarried and now I have a total of 12 brothers and sisters! I’m close to some, less so with others, but we all get along great. And both of my step parents are great people. It’s worked out pretty good. ---
**Author:** ![Contrary](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/db5fbb/32.png) [@Contrary](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrary)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2003, 12:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-i-need-a-divorce-primer/185103/50 "2003-07-04T12:10:31Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by danceswithcats \* > \*\*Rule #1 for men in a divorce: **No matter what, you’re fucked.** Um sorry that’s just not always the case. I am a woman and I lost everything in my divorce. Why? Because we shared an attorney who was also a mediator, and I relied on my ex-husband’s integrity. **Squeegee** , I will repeat myself and also echo what others have said: First, should your marriage end in divorce, you BOTH need attorneys. Second, don’t rush into this decision quickly. Even when it’s the best choice, divorce is very hard and very painful. In my own situation, I knew for a year before I moved out that the marriage was dead, dead, dead and not ever going to get better. Once I moved out, it still took a year for us to actually get divorced. In retrospect, I am glad we didn’t hurry because when we did get divorced, it was with the knowledge that we’d tried everything. Third, do follow through on your decision to get some counseling. It will help you sort through the complicated emotions swirling around in you right now. Fourth, do not ever ever ever bash your wife to your son. No matter what, eve if she does not restrain herself. Your son didn’t ask to be born and he’s not the reason you two are having problems. She is still his mom just as you are his dad, and those roles will not change. Bashing only messes with his head, and he’s got enough complications right now, eh? Finally – good luck. Rebuilding and divorce both take lots of hard work to come out on the other side half-way sane. ---
**Author:** ![msklystron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/43a26b/32.png) [@msklystron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msklystron)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2004, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-i-need-a-divorce-primer/185103/51 "2004-03-14T18:39:53Z")
> [@squeegee](#): > > Yes, of course we’ll do this. MrsSqueegee has a referral from a friend and has promised to set up an appointment. If that doesn’t work out, we’ll try to find someone else. > > I’d really like to get a counselor via referral. We’ve had a bad experience with this in the past. > > About 10 years ago we went to a counselor who just awful. In retrospect, I think the counselor had issues. She saw everything – _everything_ – as abusive behavior on my part and every issue as hopeless. Every session made our relationship worse, our hurt more pronounced, our anger greater. It was horrible. > > We came within inches of separating, but tried another counselor, thank God, who helped us a lot. > > There’s some really shitty counselors out there. I don’t want to see someone who would make the situation immediately worse. > > If the first referral isn’t working, I want to try another (and another and another) and make sure we’re getting the help we need. Try to go back to the helpful counsellor, if possible. I really have no idea, but you don’t sound abusive. You are thinking clearly and realistically about how to split one home in two. I think you have a good attitude and I wish you and your family all the best. It frankly annoys me when I hear that a professional, a counsellor, can’t draw the line between real spousal abuse and the nastiness that goes on in the break-down of a marriage. The forms and level of abuse varies, but real spousal abuse is the systematic attempt of one spouse to crush the spirit of the other. Abuse can be mild or blatant and obvious. I think most of us are just a little abusive when stressed by a marriage that isn’t working. However here is some of the abuse my ex put me through. Note how systematic it was: Isolation: Telling you your friends don’t like you. Telling you the friends who do like you are morons. Telling family/ friends who come to the door to call for you that you are not home, when you are indeed home. Limiting your phone calls and listening in on them. Demanding to know your every move. Having to report in if you will be five minutes late. Insisting that you quit jobs, courses, clubs, hobbies etc. that take you out of the home. In the end, the abuser makes you a co-conspirator. You may even cover for him with relatives and friends. You become afraid to reach out. Disrespect: Nagging, put downs, labelling, blaming, constant complaining, done with such intensity that it would make one change one’s habits, make decisions that aren’t in one’s best interests or alter one’s self image or perception of reality. I used to rush around the house trying to set everything to right before my ex arrived home. He’d still find something to complain about. Controlling: using various means including threats, fear and violence to get you do to do what he wants against your better judgement or will. It can also take the form of micromanagment. Picking at the way you do everything, so that you eventually realize that you are an incompetent loser and turn over control to the abuser. Domination: This is done through knowing how to push your ‘buttons’, threats, ultimatums, fear, and physical violence. Hope that clarifies. ---
**Author:** ![msklystron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/43a26b/32.png) [@msklystron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msklystron)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2004, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-i-need-a-divorce-primer/185103/52 "2004-03-14T18:58:30Z")
squeegee, I wish you and your family good luck. It sounds like you have a good attitude and I would doubt that you are abusive. Try to find the counsellor who once helped you and your wife. As for the other counsellor… That really p1sses me off. A professional should know the difference between the nastiness that goes on at the break-up of a marriage and real spousal abuse. Spousal abuse is the systematic attempt by one spouse to crush the spirit of the other. It is very systematic and intense. It involves isolating and dominating the victim. This is done through cruel put downs, constant nagging and complaining, threats, ultimatums and physical violence. Even if the violence is absent a counsellor should know how to diagnose abuse. This sort of ignorance dimishes the real danger and suffering faced by abuse victims. Anyway… the counselling may do the trick. If it doesn’t try to negotiate together or seek mediation. ---
**Author:** ![Omnipresent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/8c91f0/32.png) [@Omnipresent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omnipresent)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2004, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-i-need-a-divorce-primer/185103/53 "2004-03-15T18:19:26Z")
Sounds like a plan but, you’re forgetting one thing. If she is primary custodian of your child, you get to pay child support. So, in a nut shell, you split the equity in your house, lose your child, split ALL assets, you move out of the house you’ve “made”, living “less-than”, AND, you get to give her 25% of your GROSS salary until your kid is 18. The worst part, (in my opinion) you’re agreeing to let her remove your childs father as an influence on your childs life (for the most part). Yea, that’s fare to the child. In my apparently naive world, I say, split all equity, split custody and share child expenses. Ohhhhhhhhhh, Omni, that just makes TOO much sense. You’re being silly!!! ---
**Author:** ![Dung\_Beetle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dung_beetle/32/7945_2.png) [@Dung\_Beetle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dung_Beetle)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2004, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-i-need-a-divorce-primer/185103/54 "2004-03-15T19:12:22Z")
This just so happens to be a timely thread for me, also. Thanks for starting it. And good luck. ---
**Author:** ![msklystron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/43a26b/32.png) [@msklystron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msklystron)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2004, 5:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-i-need-a-divorce-primer/185103/55 "2004-03-16T05:22:42Z")
Will ya look at that? My first longish post was wisked away, so I re-write a condensed version only to have the first post magically reappear. ---
**Author:** ![msklystron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/43a26b/32.png) [@msklystron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msklystron)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2004, 5:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-i-need-a-divorce-primer/185103/56 "2004-03-16T05:32:01Z")
> [@Omnipresent](#): > > Sounds like a plan but, you’re forgetting one thing. If she is primary custodian of your child, you get to pay child support. > > So, in a nut shell, you split the equity in your house, lose your child, split ALL assets, you move out of the house you’ve “made”, living “less-than”, AND, you get to give her 25% of your GROSS salary until your kid is 18. > > The worst part, (in my opinion) you’re agreeing to let her remove your childs father as an influence on your childs life (for the most part). Yea, that’s fare to the child. > > In my apparently naive world, I say, split all equity, split custody and share child expenses. Ohhhhhhhhhh, Omni, that just makes TOO much sense. You’re being silly!!! This is becoming a common approach in Canada. It works great for two- income families with 3 or fewer children, where the ex spouse can live in close proximity and work together to co-ordinate schedules. The OP may want to consider this, but he seems content with the idea of his former wife providing primary care. I don’t know about the States, but in Canada custody can be reopened at any time. It would involve going to mediation or court to have arrangements changed. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-i-need-a-divorce-primer/185103.md?page=2)