# Ok, if I shouldn't \_shoot\_ the intruder, then...? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 19, 2009, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-if-i-shouldnt-_shoot_-the-intruder-then/482060 "2009-01-19T23:15:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 21
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2009, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-if-i-shouldnt-_shoot_-the-intruder-then/482060/401 "2009-01-21T19:25:54Z")
> [@ivan\_astikov](#): > > And guess how you best do that? > > I’ll give you a clue: it’s not by shooting the son of a bitch after he gets in, because there will always be another one until we have a different model of society. I’m not worried. I bet I run out of thieves before I run out of ammo. ---
**Author:** ![ivan\_astikov](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@ivan\_astikov](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivan_astikov)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2009, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-if-i-shouldnt-_shoot_-the-intruder-then/482060/402 "2009-01-21T19:30:28Z")
> [@Scumpup](#): > > I’m not worried. I bet I run out of thieves before I run out of ammo. That’s assuming they don’t break in, kill you first, _then_ steal your guns AND ammo. Your home should be a fortress. That is where you keep your most valuable possessions, after all. If you want to let someone cross that line and deal with it with a gun, fair enough. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2009, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-if-i-shouldnt-_shoot_-the-intruder-then/482060/403 "2009-01-21T19:30:56Z")
> [@Cuckoorex](#): > > I’m hoping they get McLovin to play the part of Lil Billy. For lil-Billy I’d prefer the guy who played “Weezer” on that sitcom called Head of the Class with the teacher who was played by the actor who also played Johnny Fever on WKRP in Cincinatti. Though I am just old school (heh). ---
**Author:** ![Huerta88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/82dd89/32.png) [@Huerta88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Huerta88)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2009, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-if-i-shouldnt-_shoot_-the-intruder-then/482060/404 "2009-01-21T19:34:19Z")
> [@ivan\_astikov](#): > > As a preventitive measure, how about appealing to their better nature - because even villains love their families sometimes - and trying to channel all that devious inventiveness into something worthwhile? I’m doing my part with my friends, family, community to establish a shared model of a social contract in which people don’t steal. My tax dollars go to all sorts of educational and social institutions that can and do tell kids: don’t steal, stay out of trouble, here’s a trade, here’s some midnight basketball. And yet – fast forward to the fact that I might still find some jackass in my house, at night, possibly menacing me and my family. Sorry, I am not going to commit myself to talking sweet reason with him as my ONLY option. ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2009, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-if-i-shouldnt-_shoot_-the-intruder-then/482060/405 "2009-01-21T19:39:54Z")
> [@Huerta88](#): > > We may actually be getting somewhere. Anyone who breaks into my house at a time when I am home is going to be treated as though they have the worst intentions toward me and my family. Of course they are. Are you seriously suggesting that people make choices when their safety and that of their families are at stake based on pure statistics? > > Most random dudes aren’t pedophiles. Statistically, then, I should let my kid go off with random dudes. Most breast lumps are benign. Statistically, I should tell my daughter not to waste her time and money going to the doctor. Of course I’m not saying statistics govern all behaviors. But that’s really not the issue. I’m bothered by your assumption that every burglar wants to rape your daughter, particularly when that burglar is nowhere near your daughter. And that assumption is where I think you’ve gone terribly wrong. Why not call the police rather than getting in the guy’s face and inflaming the situation, or worse, shooting some kid who has no weapon and no intention of harming anyone? Or even WORSE, accidentally shooting someone you care about in the process? You don’t HAVE to confront a burglar in this scenario. Your desire to kill before choosing the less violent alternative is quite disturbing. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2009, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-if-i-shouldnt-_shoot_-the-intruder-then/482060/406 "2009-01-21T19:42:47Z")
“stopping and preventing” > [@ivan\_astikov](#): > > And guess how you best do that? > > I’ll give you a clue: it’s not by shooting the son of a bitch after he gets in, because there will always be another one until we have a different model of society. Oh, I don’t know bout that. I’d wager that shooting someone is a pretty good method of STOPPING him from doing whatever he is doing. And if he dies from the shooting, I am pretty damn SURE it will PREVENT him from doing it again. Of course your reincarnation milage may vary greatly. ---
**Author:** ![ivan\_astikov](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@ivan\_astikov](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivan_astikov)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2009, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-if-i-shouldnt-_shoot_-the-intruder-then/482060/407 "2009-01-21T19:42:47Z")
> [@Huerta88](#): > > I’m doing my part with my friends, family, community to establish a shared model of a social contract in which people don’t steal. My tax dollars go to all sorts of educational and social institutions that can and do tell kids: don’t steal, stay out of trouble, here’s a trade, here’s some midnight basketball. > > And yet – fast forward to the fact that I might still find some jackass in my house, at night, possibly menacing me and my family. Sorry, I am not going to commit myself to talking sweet reason with him as my ONLY option. I appreciate you have cares for the community beyond your front door, but you are being deliberately obtuse by refusing to accept that good locks, a burglar alarm and a dog for good measure, are a better option than shooting some ne’er do well who has transgressed your flimsy boundaries. ---
**Author:** ![Huerta88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/82dd89/32.png) [@Huerta88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Huerta88)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2009, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-if-i-shouldnt-_shoot_-the-intruder-then/482060/408 "2009-01-21T19:46:03Z")
> [@Kalhoun](#): > > Your desire to kill before choosing the less violent alternative is quite disturbing. Did you read the (many) times I said that using my weapon was by no means a one-size-fits-all solution, or that all I am insisting on is the OPTION to use deadly force when someone is in my house? My “desire to kill” is non-existent. I hope to go through life never firing my gun in anger. If I did, I would do so with regret, in a situation in which I was in fear for my or my family’s physical safety and made the assessment that neutralizing the intruder was the least-worse solution. I’d regret it, I don’t want it, but I will always decide a tie, or anything that looks close to a tie, in favor of me and mine and against the illegal intruder. Sounds like you want to have an argument with a person you think you might be able to beat because his position is ridiculously simplistic. Fine – go out and find that person. He’s not me, and I’m pretty sure he’s not anyone else who’s posted here. ---
**Author:** ![Cuckoorex](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ad7895/32.png) [@Cuckoorex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cuckoorex)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2009, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-if-i-shouldnt-_shoot_-the-intruder-then/482060/409 "2009-01-21T19:48:02Z")
> [@Kalhoun](#): > > Of course I’m not saying statistics govern all behaviors. But that’s really not the issue. I’m bothered by your assumption that every burglar wants to rape your daughter, particularly when that burglar is nowhere near your daughter. And that assumption is where I think you’ve gone terribly wrong. Why not call the police rather than getting in the guy’s face and inflaming the situation, or worse, shooting some kid who has no weapon and no intention of harming anyone? Or even WORSE, accidentally shooting someone you care about in the process? You don’t HAVE to confront a burglar in this scenario. Your desire to kill before choosing the less violent alternative is quite disturbing. Again with you and this assumption that the desire is to KILL. Like there’s a raging bloodlust that’s just aching to come out. And it’s not an assumption that every burglar wants to rape someone, it’s the possibility that one MIGHT want to rape someone. Ever hear of “better safe than sorry?” You want to explain to your daughter/wife/sister how you’re sorry that she got raped, but you were REALLY TRYING to appeal to that person’s better nature and he JUST WOULDN’T LISTEN? Have you ever tried calling the police? A friend of mine actually had someone banging hard on his door, shouting out obscenities, apparently high on something or drunk off his ass…he called the police and for another 10-15 minutes this guy was there trying to break down his door. Finally the guy wandered off. About ten minutes later the cops showed up and didn’t do anything. And this is in a city that generally doesn’t have a lot of crime going on. If that guy had been able to break into the house, you’re looking at maybe up to 25 minutes before the cops get there, and in that time all sorts of damage could be done. Maybe this guy wanted to fight. Maybe he wanted to rape. Maybe he just wanted a TiVo really bad. ---
**Author:** ![ivan\_astikov](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@ivan\_astikov](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivan_astikov)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2009, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-if-i-shouldnt-_shoot_-the-intruder-then/482060/410 "2009-01-21T19:49:15Z")
> [@billfish678](#): > > “stopping and preventing” > > Oh, I don’t know bout that. I’d wager that shooting someone is a pretty good method of STOPPING him from doing whatever he is doing. And if he dies from the shooting, I am pretty damn SURE it will PREVENT him from doing it again. > > Of course your reincarnation milage may vary greatly. Read the whole sentence. Criminals are not going away because you wave a gun about. If you have something worth the risk of stealing, they will just bring their own weapons. Where does it all stop? Not with the person lying face down in your bedroom, living room, or garden with bullets in their body. Why, if you killed a gang member like that, the likelihood is that someone will be calling by with an uzi one day, waiting for you to leave the house. Let the cops put up with all that shit; they are paid for it. Your job is to stop them getting in your house, not execute them. ---
**Author:** ![Huerta88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/82dd89/32.png) [@Huerta88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Huerta88)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2009, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-if-i-shouldnt-_shoot_-the-intruder-then/482060/411 "2009-01-21T19:51:39Z")
> [@ivan\_astikov](#): > > I appreciate you have cares for the community beyond your front door, but you are being deliberately obtuse by refusing to accept that good locks, a burglar alarm and a dog for good measure, are a better option than shooting some ne’er do well who has transgressed your flimsy boundaries. I don’t like dogs. Burglar alarms are annoying. Who’s to say I don’t have good locks? At what point will you deem my locks “good” enough that the victim will no longer be blamed for enticing the scumbag? ---
**Author:** ![Cuckoorex](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ad7895/32.png) [@Cuckoorex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cuckoorex)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2009, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-if-i-shouldnt-_shoot_-the-intruder-then/482060/412 "2009-01-21T19:52:10Z")
> [@ivan\_astikov](#): > > I appreciate you have cares for the community beyond your front door, but you are being deliberately obtuse by refusing to accept that good locks, a burglar alarm and a dog for good measure, are a better option than shooting some ne’er do well who has transgressed your flimsy boundaries. Well, except that the thief will move on to some other house and poor lil Billy might break into a different house that has a bloodthirsty Jose Wales wannabe owner who will pop a cap in his dome. Or, howabout that ne’er do well just NOT INVADE PEOPLE’S HOMES? How’s THAT for a solution? Oh, but the world doesn’t work that way, I know. There’s always going to be crime. Well, then just accept that there’s always going to be people who are ready, willing, and able to defend their homes with whatever means are necessary. It’s a two-way street. ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2009, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-if-i-shouldnt-_shoot_-the-intruder-then/482060/413 "2009-01-21T19:54:54Z")
> [@Cuckoorex](#): > > Again with you and this assumption that the desire is to KILL. Like there’s a raging bloodlust that’s just aching to come out. > > And it’s not an assumption that every burglar wants to rape someone, it’s the possibility that one MIGHT want to rape someone. Ever hear of “better safe than sorry?” You want to explain to your daughter/wife/sister how you’re sorry that she got raped, but you were REALLY TRYING to appeal to that person’s better nature and he JUST WOULDN’T LISTEN? > > Have you ever tried calling the police? A friend of mine actually had someone banging hard on his door, shouting out obscenities, apparently high on something or drunk off his ass…he called the police and for another 10-15 minutes this guy was there trying to break down his door. Finally the guy wandered off. About ten minutes later the cops showed up and didn’t do anything. And this is in a city that generally doesn’t have a lot of crime going on. If that guy had been able to break into the house, you’re looking at maybe up to 25 minutes before the cops get there, and in that time all sorts of damage could be done. Maybe this guy wanted to fight. Maybe he wanted to rape. Maybe he just wanted a TiVo really bad. And maybe it would be prudent to wait and see what his actual actions are toward your family before you pull the trigger. You’ve got the gun. You can choose when you’ll pull the trigger. ---
**Author:** ![ivan\_astikov](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@ivan\_astikov](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivan_astikov)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2009, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-if-i-shouldnt-_shoot_-the-intruder-then/482060/414 "2009-01-21T19:55:09Z")
> [@Cuckoorex](#): > > Again with you and this assumption that the desire is to KILL. Come on, let’s not beat around the bush. You are holding a shotgun/handgun/rifle in your hands. What are you going to do, tickle him into submission? ---
**Author:** ![Cuckoorex](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ad7895/32.png) [@Cuckoorex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cuckoorex)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2009, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-if-i-shouldnt-_shoot_-the-intruder-then/482060/415 "2009-01-21T19:56:39Z")
> [@Kalhoun](#): > > And maybe it would be prudent to wait and see what his actual actions are toward your family before you pull the trigger. Yeah, I’ll wait until he’s taken my kid hostage before I try to shoot him. Good plan. I swat mosquitoes that land on my arm without waiting to see if they plan to actually bite me. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2009, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-if-i-shouldnt-_shoot_-the-intruder-then/482060/416 "2009-01-21T19:56:58Z")
> [@ivan\_astikov](#): > > Read the whole sentence. Criminals are not going away because you wave a gun about. If you have something worth the risk of stealing, they will just bring their own weapons. Where does it all stop? Not with the person lying face down in your bedroom, living room, or garden with bullets in their body. Why, if you killed a gang member like that, the likelihood is that someone will be calling by with an uzi one day, waiting for you to leave the house. Let the cops put up with all that shit; they are paid for it. Your job is to stop them getting in your house, not execute them. Wait a damn minute, Mr Career Criminal. You’ve posted that you never carried a gun. You never wanted to carry a gun. You never wanted to get shot. You’d look for easier pastures. You and your fellow union employee’s all felt that way. Now that I HAVE a gun and am willing to use it, its an arms race and a fight to the finish rather than an all tea and crumpets polite “nothing personal” economic exchange. Which one is it? Gawd, no wonder physcologists are drawn to criminals as a field of study. ---
**Author:** ![Cuckoorex](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ad7895/32.png) [@Cuckoorex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cuckoorex)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2009, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-if-i-shouldnt-_shoot_-the-intruder-then/482060/417 "2009-01-21T19:59:15Z")
> [@ivan\_astikov](#): > > Come on, let’s not beat around the bush. You are holding a shotgun/handgun/rifle in your hands. What are you going to do, tickle him into submission? Actually, I’m going to do the “pump the shotgun and yell at the guy to drop to the floor” bit; if he complies, I call the cops while keeping the gun aimed at him. If he runs, I let him run and call the cops. If he makes any other kind of move, toward me or reaching into his coat/pants/whatever for something, I would definitely shoot. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2009, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-if-i-shouldnt-_shoot_-the-intruder-then/482060/418 "2009-01-21T20:01:34Z")
> [@Kalhoun](#): > > And maybe it would be prudent to wait and see what his actual actions are toward your family before you pull the trigger. You’ve got the gun. You can choose when you’ll pull the trigger. YOU CAN CHOOSE. Thank you very much. Debate over. Nothing to see here folks. Move along. Problem solved. ---
**Author:** ![Cuckoorex](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ad7895/32.png) [@Cuckoorex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cuckoorex)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2009, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-if-i-shouldnt-_shoot_-the-intruder-then/482060/419 "2009-01-21T20:01:47Z")
> [@billfish678](#): > > Wait a damn minute, Mr Career Criminal. > > You’ve posted that you never carried a gun. You never wanted to carry a gun. You never wanted to get shot. You’d look for easier pastures. You and your fellow union employee’s all felt that way. > > Now that I HAVE a gun and am willing to use it, its an arms race and a fight to the finish rather than an all tea and crumpets polite “nothing personal” economic exchange. > > Which one is it? > > Gawd, no wonder physcologists are drawn to criminals as a field of study. Well, just remember, it’s YOUR fault. ---
**Author:** ![ivan\_astikov](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@ivan\_astikov](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivan_astikov)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2009, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-if-i-shouldnt-_shoot_-the-intruder-then/482060/420 "2009-01-21T20:02:50Z")
> [@Cuckoorex](#): > > Well, except that the thief will move on to some other house and poor lil Billy might break into a different house that has a bloodthirsty Jose Wales wannabe owner who will pop a cap in his dome. Or, howabout that ne’er do well just NOT INVADE PEOPLE’S HOMES? How’s THAT for a solution? > > Oh, but the world doesn’t work that way, I know. There’s always going to be crime. Well, then just accept that there’s always going to be people who are ready, willing, and able to defend their homes with whatever means are necessary. It’s a two-way street. Look, the whole idea of defending your turf has been around a very long time. When there really were marauding bands of cut-throats roaming the lands, people built fortified homes with moats around them. They didn’t rely on dealing with the threat once their defences were breached. By then, it was probably way too late. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-if-i-shouldnt-_shoot_-the-intruder-then/482060.md?page=20) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-if-i-shouldnt-_shoot_-the-intruder-then/482060.md?page=22)