# Ok, if I shouldn't \_shoot\_ the intruder, then...? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 19, 2009, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-if-i-shouldnt-_shoot_-the-intruder-then/482060 "2009-01-19T23:15:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 25
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2009, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-if-i-shouldnt-_shoot_-the-intruder-then/482060/481 "2009-01-21T22:00:09Z")
> [@Kalhoun](#): > > Gee. I stand corrected. All our guns are kitchen guns, with the exception of the crawlspace gun. Note to self: get crawlspace gun. ---
**Author:** ![Jolly\_Roger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/91b2a8/32.png) [@Jolly\_Roger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jolly_Roger)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2009, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-if-i-shouldnt-_shoot_-the-intruder-then/482060/482 "2009-01-21T22:00:17Z")
> [@Kalhoun](#): > > We’re talking about two separate issues here. The right for the burglar to take your shit (he has no right…whether you lock up your shit or not) and killing someone who is stealing your shit but intends or attempts no bodily harm. Earlier in the thread that was explained, but I’ll say it again. **Mr. Homeowner** is awakened by a noise in his house. Maybe the cat knocked something over, maybe someone knocked on the door, etc. He gets up and goes to investigate, and being a gunowner, takes his pistol. Its his right, its legally owned. He got it because he wanted to be able to protect his wife and children and cat and the house he’s paying for and all of the stuff in said house because he busted his ass working to provide it all for his loved ones. He goes downstairs to check the locks and finds \*\*Mr. Burglar \*\*stealing his stuff. Its dark, adrenalin is rushing, and \*\*Mr. Homeowner \*\*has a millisecond flash of fear of what this unknown person may do to him or his family or cat if allowed to brazenly break in and steal his stuff. Maybe hes just a simple thief, but maybe he’s a _crazy_ simple thief that would tie him and his wife up and force them to watch him rape the children. After all, this person is a thief, a man willing to take the risk of breaking into his home where his family is. _ **Who knows what he’s capable of?** _ **Mr. Homeowner shouts : _“Stop! Put your hands up and lay on your stomach!”_** What happens next is _A:_ \*\*Mr. Burglar \*\*complies seeing that \*\*Mr. Homeowner \*\*has a pistol. He starts babbling some crap about how he just needed the money and **Mr. Homeowner** has shitty locks and it was just to tempting for him to not break into the house at 0330 in the morning, and how he just needed the thrills. Mr. Homeowner keeps the pistol trained on the burglar while he calls 911. Cops arrest scumbag. Or _B:_ **Mr. Burglar** , not being a mental giant, or a person with any concern to his fellow human beings tries to rush **Mr. Homeowner**. Its dark, and **Mr. Homeowner** isn’t sure if the burglar has a weapon or not, but he does know he’s a burglar and shouldn’t be in his house at 0330. He also knows his wife and kids need to be protected from the likes of this moron. So he pumps one into his chest dropping him. He calls 911. The cops arrive and EMTs may or may not be able to save **Mr. Burglar**. \*\*Mr. Homeowner \*\*feels a bit of remorse for using deadly force but also feels justified that he did so to protect his family and property. We can even entertain the fact that \*\*Mr. Burglar \*\*was trying to run away, but in doing so made a move that looked threatening to Mr. Homeowner. Mr. Homeowner in fear for his safety fires. Same conclusion. \*\*Mr. Burglar \*\*should not have tried to rob **Mr. Homeowner**. If he had not tried he would not have been shot. Now you might have a problem with _B_ but I don’t. mr. burglar should have stayed out of Mr. Homeowner’s house. No one wants to og on a witch hunt here looking for criminals to shoot like the Punisher, but most have expressed their desire to protect their homes and family using lethal force if the situation deems it. if you’re more likely to tell _Mr. Burglar [/B]“Look, take what you want and get out!”_ thats fine. He may do that. He may beat you within an inch of your life, rape you, or cook you in a stew. You won’t know til it happens. Me? If he doesn’t choose _ **A** _ I hope he has insurance because its his only option that will not require force if he’s in MY house. ---
**Author:** ![Cuckoorex](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ad7895/32.png) [@Cuckoorex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cuckoorex)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2009, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-if-i-shouldnt-_shoot_-the-intruder-then/482060/483 "2009-01-21T22:00:55Z")
> [@Kalhoun](#): > > No, that’s not what I said. Your interpretation is paranoid. I’m saying that by your pulling out a gun, you can trigger a worse situation. One that will find you and your family dead because someone who had no intention of hurting anyone is now forced to defend himself from your gun. Your scenario had someone confronting him in his shower (with somehow Scumpup simultaneously coming at HIM with a gun). Poor lil Billy! He’s FORCED to defend himself by the big bad homeowner with a gun! OK, in this scenario, the person who had NO INTENTION OF HURTING ANYONE HAS BROKEN INTO SOMEONE’S HOME AND **THEY HAVE A GUN**. Read it again. In your scenario, the harmless thief is now NO LONGER UNARMED, as you have been asserting, but HAS A GUN. This is quickly heading to Pit territory. ---
**Author:** ![ivan\_astikov](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@ivan\_astikov](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivan_astikov)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2009, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-if-i-shouldnt-_shoot_-the-intruder-then/482060/484 "2009-01-21T22:03:35Z")
> [@billfish678](#): > > Thats what Guns N Soap on rope was made to prevent! It’s good to see homophobic paranoia is still alive and kicking! I know you are only joshing, but I wonder what the odds of getting buggered by a burglar in your own shower are? I bet they are considerably lessened if you lock and bolt your doors and windows. \< hint hint \> ---
**Author:** ![ivan\_astikov](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@ivan\_astikov](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivan_astikov)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2009, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-if-i-shouldnt-_shoot_-the-intruder-then/482060/485 "2009-01-21T22:05:24Z")
> [@Cuckoorex](#): > > This is quickly heading to Pit territory. Oh, and it was going so well! ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2009, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-if-i-shouldnt-_shoot_-the-intruder-then/482060/486 "2009-01-21T22:06:18Z")
Jumping Jeebus Krishna on a cracker, you just never tire of trying to turn this into a game of “blame the victim,” do you? ---
**Author:** ![Cuckoorex](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ad7895/32.png) [@Cuckoorex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cuckoorex)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2009, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-if-i-shouldnt-_shoot_-the-intruder-then/482060/487 "2009-01-21T22:06:26Z")
> [@ivan\_astikov](#): > > It’s good to see homophobic paranoia is still alive and kicking! I know you are only joshing, but I wonder what the odds of getting buggered by a burglar in your own shower are? I bet they are considerably lessened if you lock and bolt your doors and windows. \< hint hint \> Showering homeowner: Hey! What are you doing in here?? Home invader: Don’t blame me! Blame your shitty K-Mart locks! Showering homeowner: Oh, snap! Hold on, let me bend over… Home invader: WIN! ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2009, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-if-i-shouldnt-_shoot_-the-intruder-then/482060/488 "2009-01-21T22:06:50Z")
> [@Scumpup](#): > > Note to self: get crawlspace gun. Crap. I finally realized what a cough caulk cough ing gun is REALLY for :eek: ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2009, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-if-i-shouldnt-_shoot_-the-intruder-then/482060/489 "2009-01-21T22:13:04Z")
> [@Cuckoorex](#): > > Your scenario had someone confronting him in his shower (with somehow Scumpup simultaneously coming at HIM with a gun). Poor lil Billy! He’s FORCED to defend himself by the big bad homeowner with a gun! OK, in this scenario, the person who had NO INTENTION OF HURTING ANYONE HAS BROKEN INTO SOMEONE’S HOME AND **THEY HAVE A GUN**. Read it again. In your scenario, the harmless thief is now NO LONGER UNARMED, as you have been asserting, but HAS A GUN. > > This is quickly heading to Pit territory. No, he never said the guy came into his bathroom. He said a guy came into his house while he was in the shower. But keep making it up as you go along! What I said was explained already. The person who draws a gun on an intruder who isn’t brandishing a weapon risks inflaming the situation. ---
**Author:** ![Huerta88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/82dd89/32.png) [@Huerta88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Huerta88)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2009, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-if-i-shouldnt-_shoot_-the-intruder-then/482060/490 "2009-01-21T22:15:18Z")
> [@Cuckoorex](#): > > Showering homeowner: Hey! What are you doing in here?? > > Home invader: Don’t blame me! Blame your shitty K-Mart locks! > > Showering homeowner: Oh, snap! Hold on, let me bend over… > > Home invader: WIN! **bill** was in the lead for making me laugh until you turned in this strong performance. ---
**Author:** ![ivan\_astikov](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@ivan\_astikov](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivan_astikov)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2009, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-if-i-shouldnt-_shoot_-the-intruder-then/482060/491 "2009-01-21T22:16:13Z")
> [@Scumpup](#): > > Jumping Jeebus Krishna on a cracker, you just never tire of trying to turn this into a game of “blame the victim,” do you? If a tourist enters a rough neighbourhood parading enticing goodies, having paid no heed to theIr environment, they have made themselves a victim by omitting some easily carried out precautions. They haven’t placed a “Hi, rob my stupid ass.” sign around their necks, but they may as well have. Blame can be ascribed to the victim, because unless they live in a fantasy world, they have neglected their safety. Now unless you can show statistical evidence that points to most burglaries being acts of violent to persons home invasions, and not petty theft, your solution to this problem sounds a tad extreme. IMO. ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2009, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-if-i-shouldnt-_shoot_-the-intruder-then/482060/492 "2009-01-21T22:18:21Z")
> [@Kalhoun](#): > > No, he never said the guy came into his bathroom. He said a guy came into his house while he was in the shower. But keep making it up as you go along! > > What I said was explained already. The person who draws a gun on an intruder who isn’t brandishing a weapon risks inflaming the situation. Crimoney. There’s an invader in my house robbing me and I should worry about “inflaming the situation?” The “situation” is already FUBAR. So what do you do in Sea Kitten Land when you get out of the shower and find a burglar ransacking your house? ---
**Author:** ![Jolly\_Roger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/91b2a8/32.png) [@Jolly\_Roger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jolly_Roger)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2009, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-if-i-shouldnt-_shoot_-the-intruder-then/482060/493 "2009-01-21T22:19:58Z")
> [@Kalhoun](#): > > No, he never said the guy came into his bathroom. He said a guy came into his house while he was in the shower. But keep making it up as you go along! > > What I said was explained already. The person who draws a gun on an intruder who isn’t brandishing a weapon risks inflaming the situation. If I have a gun and the burglar doesn’t I’m defusing the situation. The burglar can lie prone while I call 911 or inflame the situation by resisting. Its my fucking house. If he makes a threatening move he’s the one making things worse, not me. How did we come to the point where the criminal is now innocent against the wrathful homeowner that is content to live in peace as long as you don’t break into his house? This is ridiculous. If I don’t use a gun but kick the guys ass am I now a bad person for beating up the poor little criminal who broke into my house? I say again at what point does the criminal bear responsibility for any harm done to him while breaking into someones house? ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2009, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-if-i-shouldnt-_shoot_-the-intruder-then/482060/494 "2009-01-21T22:21:09Z")
> [@ivan\_astikov](#): > > If a tourist enters a rough neighbourhood parading enticing goodies, having paid no heed to theIr environment, they have made themselves a victim by omitting some easily carried out precautions. They haven’t placed a “Hi, rob my stupid ass.” sign around their necks, but they may as well have. Blame can be ascribed to the victim, because unless they live in a fantasy world, they have neglected their safety. > > Now unless you can show statistical evidence that points to most burglaries being acts of violent to persons home invasions, and not petty theft, your solution to this problem sounds a tad extreme. IMO. This doesn’t fly. Butterflies fly. Bats fly. Birds fly. Except jailbirds. This is more of your lame-ass attempting to justify criminal behavior. ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2009, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-if-i-shouldnt-_shoot_-the-intruder-then/482060/495 "2009-01-21T22:24:52Z")
> [@Scumpup](#): > > Crimoney. There’s an invader in my house robbing me and I should worry about “inflaming the situation?” The “situation” is already FUBAR. So what do you do in Sea Kitten Land when you get out of the shower and find a burglar ransacking your house? I lock myself in a room and call the cops or if I don’t have a phone, wait for him to leave. I’m certainly not going to forge into the unknown, which might involve guns or knives that will be used on me (or my family) if HE feels threatened. Violence is the last resort for me. ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2009, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-if-i-shouldnt-_shoot_-the-intruder-then/482060/496 "2009-01-21T22:27:02Z")
Yeah, we wouldn’t want to upset the poor dear by making him feel threatened while he is invading our home, stealing our belongings, and considering what else he’d like to do while he’s there. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2009, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-if-i-shouldnt-_shoot_-the-intruder-then/482060/497 "2009-01-21T22:29:30Z")
> [@Scumpup](#): > > Crimoney. There’s an invader in my house robbing me and I should worry about “inflaming the situation?” The “situation” is already FUBAR. So what do you do in Sea Kitten Land when you get out of the shower and find a burglar ransacking your house? Don’t scare me like that! For a moment I though you said Furbies :eek: ---
**Author:** ![Jolly\_Roger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/91b2a8/32.png) [@Jolly\_Roger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jolly_Roger)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2009, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-if-i-shouldnt-_shoot_-the-intruder-then/482060/498 "2009-01-21T22:30:19Z")
> [@ivan\_astikov](#): > > If a tourist enters a rough neighbourhood parading enticing goodies, having paid no heed to theIr environment, they have made themselves a victim by omitting some easily carried out precautions. They haven’t placed a “Hi, rob my stupid ass.” sign around their necks, but they may as well have. Blame can be ascribed to the victim, because unless they live in a fantasy world, they have neglected their safety. So now people getting mugged are to be blamed for being in the wrong place at the wrong time? A tourist that wanders into a bad neighborhood is now at fault for not carrying an uzi? I’m pretty sure that a lot of people will disagree with that. That again is like saying the rape victim shouldn’t have worn the tight blouse, and its utterly asinine. > [@](#): > > Now unless you can show statistical evidence that points to most burglaries being acts of violent to persons home invasions, and not petty theft, your solution to this problem sounds a tad extreme. IMO. If you break into my home I don’t know what you might be capable of. Plus IMO if you break into my home the use of force, deadly force in necessary is authorized for me, by me because _its my fucking house_. If i break into your house I’ll happily walk away with your stuff and torture your pets and family members because you won’t use a weapon against me. And remember, you don’t know what _craaaaazzzzzyyyyy_ things i might do, so you might have to use deadly force if you can’t read my tells. Because i don’t want to go to jail. You wanna roll the dice on me not killing you and your family for having shitty locks and not reading my tells and me needing the thrills and all? Be my guest. I’d rather not come up snake eyes on that because I assumed that Mr. Asshole thief isn’t a crazy-rapist-cannibal scumbag. But then I don’t pay rent in the fantasy world that sokme seem to live in. _ **again…when does the criminal bear responsibility for the crimes and injuries or death gained through the crime on himself? Or is it always the victims fault?** _ ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2009, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-if-i-shouldnt-_shoot_-the-intruder-then/482060/499 "2009-01-21T22:32:04Z")
> [@billfish678](#): > > Don’t scare me like that! For a moment I though you said Furbies :eek: I know what you mean. I had a neighbor get badly mauled by a pack of feral Furbies. He screamed and pounded at my door and begged me to let him in; but there was no way I was going to risk those bloodthirsty bastards getting into my house. The chewing noises went on for what seemed like hours… ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2009, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-if-i-shouldnt-_shoot_-the-intruder-then/482060/500 "2009-01-21T22:32:09Z")
> [@Cuckoorex](#): > > Showering homeowner: Hey! What are you doing in here?? > > Home invader: Don’t blame me! Blame your shitty K-Mart locks! > > Showering homeowner: Oh, snap! Hold on, let me bend over… > > Home invader: WIN! Technically its a “Hole in One” or if you really wanna be pedantic “One in a Hole” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-if-i-shouldnt-_shoot_-the-intruder-then/482060.md?page=24) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-if-i-shouldnt-_shoot_-the-intruder-then/482060.md?page=26)