# Ok, if I shouldn't \_shoot\_ the intruder, then...? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 19, 2009, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-if-i-shouldnt-_shoot_-the-intruder-then/482060 "2009-01-19T23:15:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 29
**Author:** ![Cuckoorex](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ad7895/32.png) [@Cuckoorex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cuckoorex)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2009, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-if-i-shouldnt-_shoot_-the-intruder-then/482060/561 "2009-01-22T00:35:19Z")
> [@Kalhoun](#): > > Save your condescending tone for someone who gives a fuck about your opinion, which on this point, is worthless. You should be kinder to a debate kitten! You big meanie! ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2009, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-if-i-shouldnt-_shoot_-the-intruder-then/482060/562 "2009-01-22T00:40:46Z")
Not me. I’m in favor of shooting intruders who do not instantly flee or surrender. I’m too fucking stupid to immediately be able to tell a thief from a rapist from a serial killer when I find him in my house in the middle of the night. ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2009, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-if-i-shouldnt-_shoot_-the-intruder-then/482060/563 "2009-01-22T00:46:45Z")
**Kalhoun** , your arguments are not convincing. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2009, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-if-i-shouldnt-_shoot_-the-intruder-then/482060/564 "2009-01-22T00:52:43Z")
> [@Kalhoun](#): > > My whole point in this thread is that shooting people isn’t always the right answer, regardless of who’s in the wrong. Clearly the intruder who intentionally comes in to steal cannot be anything _but_ wrong. But this notion of shooting someone when you don’t really know what the situation is, or shooting someone for stealing stuff as opposed to harming people, isn’t a proportionate response to the crime. The error you are making is that you are assuming that the people who are arguing for _popping out with a gun and the intent to use it_ are going to use it _regardless of the actions of the criminal_. This is incorrect, and this error is ruining your ability to interpret the posts you are reading. Just because they come out _willing_ to shoot, does not mean that they _will_ shoot, or even _want to_ shoot. If the intruder acts in a nonthreatening manner or manages to run in a nonthreatening way, they will not be shot. By anyone posting here. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2009, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-if-i-shouldnt-_shoot_-the-intruder-then/482060/565 "2009-01-22T01:01:42Z")
> [@begbert2](#): > > . If the intruder acts in a nonthreatening manner or manages to run in a nonthreatening way, they will not be shot. . But if they run away in a girly way, with arms waving and a high pitched voice, like a little boy thats watched a few too many broadway musicals if you know what I mean, I am still popping em one in the ass in the honor of The Duke. ---
**Author:** ![Cuckoorex](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ad7895/32.png) [@Cuckoorex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cuckoorex)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2009, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-if-i-shouldnt-_shoot_-the-intruder-then/482060/566 "2009-01-22T01:03:07Z")
Well, duh. ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2009, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-if-i-shouldnt-_shoot_-the-intruder-then/482060/567 "2009-01-22T01:04:09Z")
> [@begbert2](#): > > The error you are making is that you are assuming that the people who are arguing for _popping out with a gun and the intent to use it_ are going to use it _regardless of the actions of the criminal_. This is incorrect, and this error is ruining your ability to interpret the posts you are reading. Just because they come out _willing_ to shoot, does not mean that they _will_ shoot, or even _want to_ shoot. If the intruder acts in a nonthreatening manner or manages to run in a nonthreatening way, they will not be shot. By anyone posting here. It’s pretty hard to misinterpret this statement: > [@](#): > > To answer your question: Yes. He does deserve a shotgun blast. If he doesn’t want to get shot, he shouldn’t be stealing. See, I don’t believe that a thief deserves to be shot. ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2009, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-if-i-shouldnt-_shoot_-the-intruder-then/482060/568 "2009-01-22T01:04:18Z")
> [@billfish678](#): > > But if they run away in a girly way, with arms waving and a high pitched voice, like a little boy thats watched a few too many broadway musicals if you know what I mean, I am still popping em one in the ass in the honor of The Duke. You mean Randolph Scott, not The Duke. ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2009, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-if-i-shouldnt-_shoot_-the-intruder-then/482060/569 "2009-01-22T01:07:01Z")
> [@Kalhoun](#): > > It’s pretty hard to misinterpret this statement: > > See, I don’t believe that a thief deserves to be shot. If only your comprehension of the things I’ve written equalled your ability to read an intruder’s intentions. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2009, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-if-i-shouldnt-_shoot_-the-intruder-then/482060/570 "2009-01-22T01:09:54Z")
> [@Kalhoun](#): > > It’s pretty hard to misinterpret this statement: > > See, I don’t believe that a thief deserves to be shot. I believe that serial killers deserve to die. That doesn’t mean I’d shoot an unarmed surrendering one just because I had the opportunity. I don’t think you can make the jump from him assessing theives as deserving to be shot (which is a debatable opinion) to assuming that he would actually shoot a fleeing thief in the back given the opportunity. Oh, and **billfish678**? You’re not helping. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![steronz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steronz/32/11765_2.png) [@steronz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steronz)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2009, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-if-i-shouldnt-_shoot_-the-intruder-then/482060/571 "2009-01-22T02:14:34Z")
> [@billfish678](#): > > WHO HERE IS IN FAVOR OF SHOOTING PEOPLE FOR STEALING STUFF? I don’t think anyone’s really said that and meant it, but that’s not the issue here. People keep saying that you can’t tell if the guy is in your house to steal your Tivo, or if he’s there to shoot you and rape your wife in the butthole. You have to assume the worst… after all, he’s IN YOUR HOUSE! Maybe he’s running towards the front door because that’s where he left his gun, and he needs it to shoot you and go rape your wife in the butthole. Maybe he’s screaming like a little girl, waving his arms about and peeing himself to lull you into a false sense of security so that he can grab the gun he left by the front door, shoot you, and go rape your wife in the butthole. I mean, come on, you’re not a mind reader, right? He’s in your house for christ’s sake, he’s lost the privilege of the benefit of the doubt. Come on, don’t be such a pansy. I strongly suspect that despite the 12 pages of bickering, most people would behave pretty consistently given equal situations. I just think that some people are psyching themselves up for the worst of the worst, and others are assuming the best. But what do I know, I don’t own a gun and I haven’t locked my front door in 6 years. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2009, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-if-i-shouldnt-_shoot_-the-intruder-then/482060/572 "2009-01-22T02:26:27Z")
This thread is unbelievable. Kalhoun, I also live 20 minutes away for police protection on a good day. I also have a few guns. You think that I should just let someone break into my house and take whatever they want? Frankly, the pistol in my hand will be one of the most valuable and portable things I have. Should I hand it over to the burglar? **Kalhoun** – Since you don’t believe in defending yourself, just what are you going to do when they find your husbands gun safe and demand the contents? ---
**Author:** ![Cuckoorex](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ad7895/32.png) [@Cuckoorex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cuckoorex)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2009, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-if-i-shouldnt-_shoot_-the-intruder-then/482060/573 "2009-01-22T02:31:53Z")
> [@enipla](#): > > This thread is unbelievable. > > Kalhoun, I also live 20 minutes away for police protection on a good day. I also have a few guns. You think that I should just let someone break into my house and take whatever they want? > > Frankly, the pistol in my hand will be one of the most valuable and portable things I have. Should I hand it over to the burglar? > > **Kalhoun** – Since you don’t believe in defending yourself, just what are you going to do when they find your husbands gun safe and demand the contents? Why, she’ll give the prison kittens the key, of course! ---
**Author:** ![Flyhalf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ea5d25/32.png) [@Flyhalf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Flyhalf)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2009, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-if-i-shouldnt-_shoot_-the-intruder-then/482060/574 "2009-01-22T02:32:14Z")
> [@Scumpup](#): > > Don’t you understand? Thuggie McThuggerson can’t help himself. The only way to prove that we are the civilized ones is to let him commit his crimes in peace and safety. Whew! Thanks for that Scumpup. I should probably go ahead and turn in my guns now. And here I thought that EVERYONE had to play the game. What was I thinking… :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2009, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-if-i-shouldnt-_shoot_-the-intruder-then/482060/575 "2009-01-22T02:40:03Z")
Too many great posts to comment on. I’ll limit myself to two responses: > [@billfish678](#): > > Officer : what happened? > > Bill gotta gun Fish : I shot his ass and killed him. > > Officer : Ooohhh, thats not good, you could be in big trouble now! \ Did anyone else read this and mentally hear Officer Barbrady of South Park speaking as the officer? Secondly, I tried to imagine how to sum up this thread and I got a mental picture of a Heironymus Bosch-like montage of teacup rotweilers, gun-crazed rednecks, veldt clowns, ninjas, polite card-carrying members of the British Burglar’s Assoc., Intentometers, gay shower rapists deterred by rust-resistant hand-cannons, and a burglar getting shot in the back for breaking a window and then climbing in backwards. SDMB, I love you. ---
**Author:** ![Jolly\_Roger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/91b2a8/32.png) [@Jolly\_Roger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jolly_Roger)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2009, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-if-i-shouldnt-_shoot_-the-intruder-then/482060/576 "2009-01-22T02:41:17Z")
> [@begbert2](#): > > The error you are making is that you are assuming that the people who are arguing for _popping out with a gun and the intent to use it_ are going to use it _regardless of the actions of the criminal_. This is incorrect, and this error is ruining your ability to interpret the posts you are reading. Just because they come out _willing_ to shoot, does not mean that they _will_ shoot, or even _want to_ shoot. If the intruder acts in a nonthreatening manner or manages to run in a nonthreatening way, they will not be shot. By anyone posting here. I wish I had made my point that clear, but I was too flabbergasted by the idea that someone would tell me to hide like a little beeyotch when i have the means to defend myself and family. Unbelievable to me, but hey, thats one of the reasons thieves sometimes triumph i guess. That and shitty k-mart locks. ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2009, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-if-i-shouldnt-_shoot_-the-intruder-then/482060/577 "2009-01-22T02:45:10Z")
> [@Scumpup](#): > > My bathroom gun is a custom made stainless steel [Barrett .50](http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/ground/images/m107-usarmy-image03.jpg). Smallest I’ve ever seen a Barrett in usuable format is an AR-15 conversion kit. Turns it into a lever action single-shot, but it does work. I’d suggest a revolver in .45 Colt/.410 shotshell. > **[The Judge Loses Weight: Taurus Ultra-Lite .45 Colt/.410 Shotshell Revolver](https://gunblast.com/Taurus-UltraLiteJudge.htm)** Steel, too. ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2009, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-if-i-shouldnt-_shoot_-the-intruder-then/482060/578 "2009-01-22T02:46:44Z")
> [@billfish678](#): > > WHO HERE IS IN FAVOR OF SHOOTING PEOPLE FOR STEALING STUFF? Me! Especially if it’s my car or computer. I figure either compares with being a horsethief. I don’t think it’s all that likely I’d react in time to actually do it, though. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2009, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-if-i-shouldnt-_shoot_-the-intruder-then/482060/579 "2009-01-22T02:50:47Z")
> [@E-Sabbath](#): > > Me! Especially if it’s my car or computer. I figure either compares with being a horsethief. I don’t think it’s all that likely I’d react in time to actually do it, though. Meet your internet stalker then. I think the name is Kalhoun. But as least they wont shoot you. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2009, 5:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-if-i-shouldnt-_shoot_-the-intruder-then/482060/580 "2009-01-22T05:47:21Z")
Let’s try that as a test case, then. I have a car. It is, say, in a garage on my property. Someone is trying to steal it. They’re in the car, screwing with the wires under the dashboard. I think that shooting them is perfectly morally okay. This is my livelihood, an essential object, something that represents the equivalent of five years of labor for me. If you take it from me, not only am in a situation where I can’t get it back, I won’t get the equivalent of it back, either, just what someone thinks it was worth, which is considerably less than replacement value. You put my job at risk, because in the time it takes for me to get a replacement I could well be fired. Which means I could lose my apartment. You mess with it, I don’t really have a problem with killing you. I don’t think it’s wrong at all. I’m not sure what the state law is, but I don’t think that’s all that relevant to the point I’m making. (We can save the computer for the next test case, as there are more violations involved.) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-if-i-shouldnt-_shoot_-the-intruder-then/482060.md?page=28) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-if-i-shouldnt-_shoot_-the-intruder-then/482060.md?page=30)