# Ok, if I shouldn't \_shoot\_ the intruder, then...? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 19, 2009, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-if-i-shouldnt-_shoot_-the-intruder-then/482060 "2009-01-19T23:15:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 34
**Author:** ![Todderbob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e47774/32.png) [@Todderbob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Todderbob)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2009, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-if-i-shouldnt-_shoot_-the-intruder-then/482060/661 "2009-01-22T19:55:51Z")
> [@Kalhoun](#): > > I’m glad you’re in the minority. Cite? ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2009, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-if-i-shouldnt-_shoot_-the-intruder-then/482060/662 "2009-01-22T19:57:25Z")
> [@Cuckoorex](#): > > Well, let’s see, there are the numerous times that you’ve written something along the lines of “A burglar who has no intention of harming you,” for one, and then the strong insinuation that you keep making that gun owners are eager to have someone try to steal something so they can go all Eastwood on them KILL KILL KILL. I respectfully decline to comb the entire thread to provide direct quotes, but I think that’s a fair summary. Look…he’s not making a threatening move on the homeowner; he’s dismantling the stereo. I think it’s pretty clear what his intention is because he’s doing it! If his intention changes, I won’t be there to see it. I’ll be somewhere else protecting myself. ---
**Author:** ![Cuckoorex](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ad7895/32.png) [@Cuckoorex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cuckoorex)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2009, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-if-i-shouldnt-_shoot_-the-intruder-then/482060/663 "2009-01-22T20:01:50Z")
> [@Kalhoun](#): > > Look…he’s not making a threatening move on the homeowner; he’s dismantling the stereo. I think it’s pretty clear what his intention is because he’s doing it! If his intention changes, I won’t be there to see it. I’ll be somewhere else protecting myself. The very act of breaking and entering is a threatening move on the homeowner. ---
**Author:** ![Flyhalf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ea5d25/32.png) [@Flyhalf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Flyhalf)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2009, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-if-i-shouldnt-_shoot_-the-intruder-then/482060/664 "2009-01-22T20:03:01Z")
> [@Kalhoun](#): > > Look…he’s not making a threatening move on the homeowner; he’s dismantling the stereo. I think it’s pretty clear what his intention is because he’s doing it! If his intention changes, I won’t be there to see it. I’ll be somewhere else protecting myself. Yeah, and I’ll take your silence as a concession. ---
**Author:** ![BrandonR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/779978/32.png) [@BrandonR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrandonR)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2009, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-if-i-shouldnt-_shoot_-the-intruder-then/482060/665 "2009-01-22T20:06:30Z")
> [@Kalhoun](#): > > Look…he’s not making a threatening move on the homeowner; he’s dismantling the stereo. I think it’s pretty clear what his intention is because he’s doing it! If his intention changes, I won’t be there to see it. I’ll be somewhere else protecting myself. And how many burglaries have started out like that, but turned violent once the burglar came in contact with a resident? How do you know what weapon the burglar is packing? How do you know what narcotics the burglar is under the influence of? How do you know if the burglar plans on going through the house and raping/killing anyone there after he’s done looting the place? The fact is, you don’t know and it’s ridiculous to assume the burglar is just there to take some things and peacefully leave. That’s why if I ever wake up and there’s someone in my private residence that shouldn’t be there, they’re going to get quite a wakeup call. I’m not going to run away from my own property. ---
**Author:** ![Cuckoorex](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ad7895/32.png) [@Cuckoorex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cuckoorex)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2009, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-if-i-shouldnt-_shoot_-the-intruder-then/482060/666 "2009-01-22T20:10:14Z")
I can easily imagine that if someone had the intention of robbing AND going on a rape/murder spree, they would want to get the loot loaded in their getaway vehicle first, in case something goes wrong and they need to make a quick exit, at least they already have the loot. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2009, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-if-i-shouldnt-_shoot_-the-intruder-then/482060/667 "2009-01-22T20:10:48Z")
> [@Cuckoorex](#): > > Well, let’s see, there are the numerous times that you’ve written something along the lines of “A burglar who has no intention of harming you,” for one, and then the strong insinuation that you keep making that gun owners are eager to have someone try to steal something so they can go all Eastwood on them KILL KILL KILL. I respectfully decline to comb the entire thread to provide direct quotes, but I think that’s a fair summary. You left out NASCAR! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Cuckoorex](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ad7895/32.png) [@Cuckoorex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cuckoorex)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2009, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-if-i-shouldnt-_shoot_-the-intruder-then/482060/668 "2009-01-22T20:12:30Z")
> [@billfish678](#): > > you left out nascar! 🙂 Dayum! That thar calls fer sum KILLIN’!! NASCAR!! ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2009, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-if-i-shouldnt-_shoot_-the-intruder-then/482060/669 "2009-01-22T20:14:16Z")
> [@Kalhoun](#): > > Who said I was trying to hold others to my standard? Someone asked an opinion and I gave one. > > . Okay. Someone here (hell probably most people here) wake up in the middle of the night…somebodies rummaging in the living room. They grab their gun and go to check it out. Shit ensues. Criminal shot dead. Thats all you know. They are hauled to court. Do you vote guilty or not guilty? ---
**Author:** ![Flyhalf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ea5d25/32.png) [@Flyhalf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Flyhalf)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2009, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-if-i-shouldnt-_shoot_-the-intruder-then/482060/670 "2009-01-22T20:16:24Z")
> [@BrandonR](#): > > And how many burglaries have started out like that, but turned violent once the burglar came in contact with a resident? How do you know what weapon the burglar is packing? How do you know what narcotics the burglar is under the influence of? How do you know if the burglar plans on going through the house and raping/killing anyone there after he’s done looting the place? > > The fact is, you don’t know and it’s ridiculous to assume the burglar is just there to take some things and peacefully leave. That’s why if I ever wake up and there’s someone in my private residence that shouldn’t be there, they’re going to get quite a wakeup call. I’m not going to run away from my own property. Don’t you get it? Kalhoun DOES know but is just not CLAIMING to know. And if you cared about civilization and humanity and society (Oh My!), you would know too, you insensitive gun-obsessed bastard! 😉 ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2009, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-if-i-shouldnt-_shoot_-the-intruder-then/482060/671 "2009-01-22T20:16:44Z")
> [@Kalhoun](#): > > I can see you spend about as much time on your lame material as you do on your compassion lessons. I’m glad you’re in the minority. I’d bet good money that more people are laughing at my material than yours. Now, if change that to more people are laughing at my material than your actual arguments, I’d switch that bet! ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2009, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-if-i-shouldnt-_shoot_-the-intruder-then/482060/672 "2009-01-22T20:24:43Z")
> [@Cuckoorex](#): > > Dayum! That thar calls fer sum KILLIN’!! NASCAR!! Realized we left something out Pork Rinds! ---
**Author:** ![steronz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steronz/32/11765_2.png) [@steronz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steronz)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2009, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-if-i-shouldnt-_shoot_-the-intruder-then/482060/673 "2009-01-22T20:45:07Z")
> [@billfish678](#): > > Okay. > > Someone here (hell probably most people here) wake up in the middle of the night…somebodies rummaging in the living room. > > They grab their gun and go to check it out. Shit ensues. > > Criminal shot dead. > > Thats all you know. > > They are hauled to court. > > Do you vote guilty or not guilty? Not guilty, but that doesn’t mean that it’s smart to run downstairs bleary-eyed in your skivvies to confront someone who you can only assume, since you’re not a mind reader, is a scary evil butthole-rapist clown with guns for hands. But like 6 pages ago you said I don’t have to think it’s smart. I must be the only person alarmed by this incongruency… the fact that, as a poster said earlier, intruder in the house = state of EXTREME FEAR, and no time to make decisions or assume anything other than the absolute worst about the intruder, which is that he’s an evil butthole-rapist clown with guns for hands. And yet, these same people seem awfully eager to confront this person. I can only assume that it’s got something to do with the notion that deep down, they know that most random home invasions are simply about people stealing Tivos, and a handgun + getting the jump on the guy = the upper hand, which 9 times out of 10 means that they’re walking into a situation that’s not all that dangerous and probably won’t require deadly force. If the statistics and anecdotes were different, and most (like 90%+) burglaries involved butthole-raping clowns with guns for hands, people would probably make more of an effort to depend on preventing the intrusion in the first place than ending it with a handgun once it started. edit: I retract my not guilty verdict until I know what you’re charging them with. ---
**Author:** ![ivan\_astikov](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@ivan\_astikov](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivan_astikov)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2009, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-if-i-shouldnt-_shoot_-the-intruder-then/482060/674 "2009-01-22T20:46:36Z")
How many people in this thread have actually been in a situation like the one described in the OP? Unless you have, you are arguing a fantasy situation that you don’t know you will ever be able to carry out. As lame as my argument is meant to be, at least I am speaking from experience on something. All you instant justice advocates are doing is bigging yourself up for something that is highly unlikely to happen, even less so if you make sure you lock up well at night. ---
**Author:** ![Todderbob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e47774/32.png) [@Todderbob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Todderbob)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2009, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-if-i-shouldnt-_shoot_-the-intruder-then/482060/675 "2009-01-22T20:49:41Z")
> [@ivan\_astikov](#): > > How many people in this thread have actually been in a situation like the one described in the OP? > > Unless you have, you are arguing a fantasy situation that you don’t know you will ever to be able to carry out. > > As lame as my argument is meant to be, at least I am speaking from experience on something. > > All you instant justice advocates are doing is bigging yourself up for something that is highly unlikely to happen, even less so if you make sure you lock up well at night. It’s **not** Instant Justice. It’s instant protection. You break in, you pose a threat. I shoot you, you no longer pose a threat. I am, once again, safe. Easy enough to understand now? And I’m quite certain that I would be able to follow through. Call it loose morals, or an over inflated sense of self worth, but I’m pretty damn sure that I’m willing to shoot someone to protect myself. ---
**Author:** ![steronz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steronz/32/11765_2.png) [@steronz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steronz)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2009, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-if-i-shouldnt-_shoot_-the-intruder-then/482060/676 "2009-01-22T20:52:45Z")
Todderbob, how much does a kevlar vest cost nowadays? How many Tivos would someone have to steal before they could pick one up as an occupational safety device? ---
**Author:** ![Huerta88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/82dd89/32.png) [@Huerta88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Huerta88)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2009, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-if-i-shouldnt-_shoot_-the-intruder-then/482060/677 "2009-01-22T20:55:06Z")
> [@steronz](#): > > And yet, these same people seem awfully eager to confront this person. > [@me](#): > > He is going to get down on the floor NOW if I have my way so that I can take control of my personal space. And, I’ve said it several times, nothing in any of my posts says I’m **definitely** running down to confront him with the gun, or to shoot him. I am just not taking the option off of the table. I certainly haven’t taken the cowering-in-the-impenetrable (???)-bedroom-closet option off the table for anyone else. Hell, in a given situation, I might employ it. ---
**Author:** ![Todderbob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e47774/32.png) [@Todderbob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Todderbob)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2009, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-if-i-shouldnt-_shoot_-the-intruder-then/482060/678 "2009-01-22T20:57:14Z")
> [@steronz](#): > > Todderbob, how much does a kevlar vest cost nowadays? How many Tivos would someone have to steal before they could pick one up as an occupational safety device? After a quick google, upwards of 300 dollars. However, Kevlar Vests only protect against the first shot of double taps, it’s not uncommon for the second to go straight through. It’s called the ripple effect, because when the vest is moving like that, it doesn’t have the same protective power. And, hardened, intelligent, thoughtful criminals aren’t going to break into occupied houses anyway. They’re going to take preparations and break in when no one is home. ---
**Author:** ![steronz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steronz/32/11765_2.png) [@steronz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steronz)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2009, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-if-i-shouldnt-_shoot_-the-intruder-then/482060/679 "2009-01-22T21:02:28Z")
**Huerta** : Fair enough. I also never said that you would definitely do it, just that you seem awfully eager. Although I will say that over 14 pages, your stance seems to have changed from invaders are an unknown threat that need to be neutralized, to invaders are an unknown threat that need to be neutralized if they don’t comply with my orders, to invaders are an unknown threat that need to be neutralized if they don’t comply with my orders, but even if they don’t listen to me I won’t shoot if they’re heading for an exit. So you’re getting more reasonable as time goes on. ---
**Author:** ![ivan\_astikov](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@ivan\_astikov](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivan_astikov)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2009, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-if-i-shouldnt-_shoot_-the-intruder-then/482060/680 "2009-01-22T21:03:23Z")
For a site that values cites so much, there’s a distinct lack of them in this thread. I think it’s time the majority who are in favour of the OP’s proposal produced some data confirming the value of their viewpoint. p.s. I’ve produced mine; burglary is on the decline - paranoia is on the way up. This thread is my cite. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-if-i-shouldnt-_shoot_-the-intruder-then/482060.md?page=33) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-if-i-shouldnt-_shoot_-the-intruder-then/482060.md?page=35)