# Ok, if I shouldn't \_shoot\_ the intruder, then...? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 19, 2009, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-if-i-shouldnt-_shoot_-the-intruder-then/482060 "2009-01-19T23:15:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 35
**Author:** ![Cuckoorex](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ad7895/32.png) [@Cuckoorex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cuckoorex)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2009, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-if-i-shouldnt-_shoot_-the-intruder-then/482060/681 "2009-01-22T21:04:32Z")
> [@ivan\_astikov](#): > > How many people in this thread have actually been in a situation like the one described in the OP? > > Unless you have, you are arguing a fantasy situation that you don’t know you will ever be able to carry out. > > As lame as my argument is meant to be, at least I am speaking from experience on something. > > All you instant justice advocates are doing is bigging yourself up for something that is highly unlikely to happen, even less so if you make sure you lock up well at night. I’m not saying I would actually be able to bravely confront an intruder and calmly shoot him if he didn’t comply to a demand to drop to the floor and wait for the police; I really don’t know how I would handle the situation, seeing as how currently I live alone in a one-bedroom apartment and a compound bow with three (field-tipped) arrows is the closest thing I have to a firearm. I would have to hear someone trying to break in to the outer door first, and most likely if I turned on the light in the entryway, it would probably be enough to scare the person off. If they kept coming my only chance would be to wait in the corner of the room with bow drawn and hope that I can manage to catch him by surprise. However, I can understand and do support the principle of using a firearm in home defense in a scenario where a family’s home is broken into by an intruder with ambiguous intentions and immediate compliance to a demand for surrender (or the intruder beating a hasty retreat) does not occur. I may or may not be able to actually perform such a defense effectively, but others almost certainly could. ---
**Author:** ![steronz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steronz/32/11765_2.png) [@steronz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steronz)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2009, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-if-i-shouldnt-_shoot_-the-intruder-then/482060/682 "2009-01-22T21:05:00Z")
> [@Todderbob](#): > > And, hardened, intelligent, thoughtful criminals aren’t going to break into occupied houses anyway. They’re going to take preparations and break in when no one is home. Which is sorta my point… people keep claiming that you have to assume the worst about the intruder and pull the trigger until the threat goes away, but you’re not REALLY assuming the worst, are you? After all, you’re assuming that he’s not even wearing a $300 protective device. ---
**Author:** ![Cuckoorex](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ad7895/32.png) [@Cuckoorex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cuckoorex)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2009, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-if-i-shouldnt-_shoot_-the-intruder-then/482060/683 "2009-01-22T21:06:08Z")
> [@ivan\_astikov](#): > > For a site that values cites so much, there’s a distinct lack of them in this thread. I think it’s time the majority who are in favour of the OP’s proposal produced some data confirming the value of their viewpoint. > p.s. I’ve produced mine; burglary is on the decline - paranoia is on the way up. What cites are you looking for? ---
**Author:** ![ivan\_astikov](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@ivan\_astikov](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivan_astikov)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2009, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-if-i-shouldnt-_shoot_-the-intruder-then/482060/684 "2009-01-22T21:14:10Z")
> [@Todderbob](#): > > It’s **not** Instant Justice. > > It’s instant protection. So, instant protection involves confronting unknown numbers of possibly psychotic, likely armed home invaders in the middle of the night, somewhere beyond your bedroom? Are you one of these people who insist “I am not turning my home into a prison. If someone comes in here they’ll be dealing with Mr Smith and Wesson!”? ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2009, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-if-i-shouldnt-_shoot_-the-intruder-then/482060/685 "2009-01-22T21:17:19Z")
> [@Cuckoorex](#): > > I’m not saying I would actually be able to bravely confront an intruder and calmly shoot him if he didn’t comply to a demand to drop to the floor and wait for the police; I really don’t know how I would handle the situation, seeing as how currently I live alone in a one-bedroom apartment and a compound bow with three (field-tipped) arrows is the closest thing I have to a firearm. Yeah…I’ve been perusing this thread. I don’t own guns, have pretty much nothing to do with them. Plus, I live in an apartment on floor 13 with a doorman, so not likely I’ll be broken into. If I were in a situation like the one in the OP, I probably would hide and call the po-po’s. I’m really not up for a physical confrontation. But someone who does have a gun and surprises an intruder whom they end up killing…I don’t judge that person. In an ideal world, it would be great if no one got shot. But I can’t help but think, getting shot is the occupational hazard of being an intruder. ---
**Author:** ![ivan\_astikov](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@ivan\_astikov](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivan_astikov)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2009, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-if-i-shouldnt-_shoot_-the-intruder-then/482060/686 "2009-01-22T21:19:07Z")
> [@Cuckoorex](#): > > What cites are you looking for? One that relates the likelihood of the scenario outlined in the OP occurring, and maybe one that tells us how helpful having a gun in your house is, if you haven’t got adequate security. The one I mentioned earlier about how many burgled homes were alarmed, might help too, if that sort of thing exists.. ---
**Author:** ![Todderbob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e47774/32.png) [@Todderbob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Todderbob)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2009, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-if-i-shouldnt-_shoot_-the-intruder-then/482060/687 "2009-01-22T21:22:39Z")
> [@ivan\_astikov](#): > > So, instant protection involves confronting unknown numbers of possibly psychotic, likely armed home invaders in the middle of the night, somewhere beyond your bedroom? Are you one of these people who insist “I am not turning my home into a prison. If someone comes in here they’ll be dealing with Mr Smith and Wesson!”? If you read my posts, you’d know my position. It seems you and the others who tend to take up the same argument skip gleefully over mine. Let me sum it up nice and easily. We don’t all live in houses where we can easily protect our families from our bedrooms. I gave two examples in my earlier posts. Those are situations which it would be appropriate to confront an intruder. Personally, I don’t want to put bars on my windows, and steel over my sliding glass door. I like living in a house that has nice things, and I like being able to look out of my windows without looking through bars. So, no, I don’t want to turn my house into a prison, or a fortress. If someone breaks into my house, I will be shooting them if they appear even remotely threatening. A 11/100 on the threat-o-meter. They already have 10 points for breaking into my house while I’m in it. Personally, I wouldn’t go to confront an intruder in my home. I stated, [in the 4th post in this thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=10715490&postcount=4), what I would. However, I have no issues with someone that would prefer to confront them, that’s entirely their right. They have the right to be anywhere in their home, at any time. And someone who breaks into their home is impeding that right, and potentially causing grave harm to them/their livelyhood. I fully support anyones right be anywhere in their own home, at any time. The idea that I should be forced to avoid my living room because some douche bag who wants the high of breaking into my house might pose a threat to me is absolutely grotesque. If someone wants to be safe, they should be in their own home. I want to be safe, that’s why I’m in my home. And if you break into my home, you’re impeding on my ability to be and feel safe. Yes, I’ll shoot you for that. ---
**Author:** ![ivan\_astikov](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@ivan\_astikov](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivan_astikov)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2009, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-if-i-shouldnt-_shoot_-the-intruder-then/482060/688 "2009-01-22T21:28:57Z")
> [@Todderbob](#): > > Yes, I’ll shoot you for that. Don’t mince words; you’d **kill** me for that and not lose a moments sleep by the sound of it. What if you didn’t have a gun, and the problem was one that had to be handled physically? Do you think you could pummel a burglar to death with a bat, say? ---
**Author:** ![Todderbob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e47774/32.png) [@Todderbob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Todderbob)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2009, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-if-i-shouldnt-_shoot_-the-intruder-then/482060/689 "2009-01-22T21:32:42Z")
> [@ivan\_astikov](#): > > Don’t mince words; you’d **kill** me for that and not lose a moments sleep by the sound of it. What if you didn’t have a gun, and the problem was one that had to be handled physically? Do you think you could pummel a burglar to death with a bat, say? I don’t want to **kill** you, I want you to **stop being a threat.** If that involves your death, no - I probably wouldn’t loose any sleep over it. I’d feel sad… but I’ve felt sad before, I’m sure I’ll feel sad again. If I didn’t have a gun, I’d hit you with a baseball bat until you were no longer a threat. If I didn’t have a baseball bat, I’d hit you with a stick. If I didn’t have a stick, I’d hit you with a lamp. If I didn’t have a lamp, I’d hit you with my hands or feet. And, when you stopped being a threat, by my definition, I’d stop hitting or shooting you. ---
**Author:** ![ivan\_astikov](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@ivan\_astikov](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivan_astikov)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2009, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-if-i-shouldnt-_shoot_-the-intruder-then/482060/690 "2009-01-22T21:39:08Z")
> [@Todderbob](#): > > I don’t want to **kill** you, I want you to **stop being a threat.** > > If that involves your death, no - I probably wouldn’t loose any sleep over it. I’d feel sad… but I’ve felt sad before, I’m sure I’ll feel sad again. > > If I didn’t have a gun, I’d hit you with a baseball bat until you were no longer a threat. > > If I didn’t have a baseball bat, I’d hit you with a stick. > > If I didn’t have a stick, I’d hit you with a lamp. > > If I didn’t have a lamp, I’d hit you with my hands or feet. > > And, when you stopped being a threat, by my definition, I’d stop hitting or shooting you. Do you feel better after getting that off your chest? Does your home have a burglar alarm? Because if it does, Mr Burglar is going next door and denying you of your tension release. ---
**Author:** ![Todderbob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e47774/32.png) [@Todderbob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Todderbob)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2009, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-if-i-shouldnt-_shoot_-the-intruder-then/482060/691 "2009-01-22T21:43:40Z")
> [@ivan\_astikov](#): > > Do you feel better after getting that off your chest? Does your home have a burglar alarm? Because if it does, Mr Burglar is going next door and denying you of your tension release. It’s nothing about tension release. It’s about protecting myself and my family. Trying to frame it that way does nothing to further your idea that I’m causing it. Actually, yes. My home does have an alarm system, it was installed before we moved in. However, I won’t pay 60 dollars a month to keep the service active, because I don’t want to pay over 700 dollars per year. I think it’s insane that the burden to ensure someone else doesn’t break in should be on me. The burden for you not to commit a crime is on you. The burden is on me to protect my family. I will do that by whatever means is necessary. ---
**Author:** ![Cuckoorex](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ad7895/32.png) [@Cuckoorex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cuckoorex)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2009, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-if-i-shouldnt-_shoot_-the-intruder-then/482060/692 "2009-01-22T21:47:08Z")
> [@ivan\_astikov](#): > > Do you feel better after getting that off your chest? Does your home have a burglar alarm? Because if it does, Mr Burglar is going next door and denying you of your tension release. Oh, you’re so wise! The impulse to protect one’s life and the lives of one’s family is only a thinly disguised form of masturbation! That must be why people buy shitty K-Mart locks, so they have a better chance of finally busting a nut! You must have read our…tells. ---
**Author:** ![ivan\_astikov](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@ivan\_astikov](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivan_astikov)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2009, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-if-i-shouldnt-_shoot_-the-intruder-then/482060/693 "2009-01-22T21:47:38Z")
> [@Todderbob](#): > > It’s nothing about tension release. It’s about protecting myself and my family. > > Trying to frame it that way does nothing to further your idea that I’m causing it. > > Actually, yes. My home does have an alarm system, it was installed before we moved in. > > However, I won’t pay 60 dollars a month to keep the service active, because I don’t want to pay over 700 dollars per year. I think it’s insane that the burden to ensure someone else doesn’t break in should be on me. > > The burden for you not to commit a crime is on you. The burden is on me to protect my family. > > I will do that by whatever means is necessary. And how many times has a burglary been attempted since you’ve had it installed, failed or otherwise? Anyone else who has a burglar alarm want to answer that? ---
**Author:** ![Todderbob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e47774/32.png) [@Todderbob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Todderbob)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2009, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-if-i-shouldnt-_shoot_-the-intruder-then/482060/694 "2009-01-22T21:48:52Z")
> [@ivan\_astikov](#): > > And how many times has a burglary been attempted since you’ve had it installed, failed or otherwise? Did you miss the part where I said we’ve never had it activated? It was installed by the previous home owners, not us. We have never activated, and never plan to. ---
**Author:** ![Cuckoorex](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ad7895/32.png) [@Cuckoorex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cuckoorex)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2009, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-if-i-shouldnt-_shoot_-the-intruder-then/482060/695 "2009-01-22T21:50:49Z")
> [@ivan\_astikov](#): > > Don’t mince words; you’d **kill** me for that and not lose a moments sleep by the sound of it. What if you didn’t have a gun, and the problem was one that had to be handled physically? Do you think you could pummel a burglar to death with a bat, say? You know, it’s such a feeling of freedom, now that you’ve revealed that people who claim to want to protect themselves and their families are really just itching for the chance to KILL KILL KILL that I have to say this: I am totally going to leave my doors unlocked tonight, and in fact I’ll leave the outer door ajar a little bit to make things more enticing. I only wish I had a more devastating weapon, but I think I can make up for it if I’m able to knock the intruder out first, allowing me to tie them up and begin using power tools on them. BLOOD BLOOD BLOOD! KILL KILL KILL! NASCAR!! ---
**Author:** ![ivan\_astikov](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@ivan\_astikov](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivan_astikov)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2009, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-if-i-shouldnt-_shoot_-the-intruder-then/482060/696 "2009-01-22T21:55:02Z")
> [@Todderbob](#): > > Did you miss the part where I said we’ve never had it activated? > > It was installed by the previous home owners, not us. We have never activated, and never plan to. It doesn’t need to be activated to deter people. How many times have you been burgled since you got that little box stuck up outside your house? ---
**Author:** ![Todderbob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e47774/32.png) [@Todderbob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Todderbob)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2009, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-if-i-shouldnt-_shoot_-the-intruder-then/482060/697 "2009-01-22T21:55:38Z")
> [@ivan\_astikov](#): > > It doesn’t need to be activated to deter people. How many times have you been burgled since you got that little box stuck up outside your house? I’ve never stuck any box outside my house, and there has never been a box stuck outside my house. ETA: And I shouldn’t have to stick something outside my house in order to prevent someone from burglarizing my home. That’s why it’s **my** home, and I don’t leave my stuff in a communal dwelling. ---
**Author:** ![Cuckoorex](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ad7895/32.png) [@Cuckoorex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cuckoorex)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2009, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-if-i-shouldnt-_shoot_-the-intruder-then/482060/698 "2009-01-22T21:57:02Z")
> [@Todderbob](#): > > I’ve never stuck any box outside my house, and there has never been a box stuck outside my house. That’s what SHE said! OK, that made no sense. ---
**Author:** ![ivan\_astikov](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@ivan\_astikov](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivan_astikov)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2009, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-if-i-shouldnt-_shoot_-the-intruder-then/482060/699 "2009-01-22T22:04:20Z")
> [@Todderbob](#): > > I’ve never stuck any box outside my house, and there has never been a box stuck outside my house. Doesn’t sound like a very good security company then. Or did you have little stickers in your window? You’d be better off with one of [these](http://www.crimereduction.homeoffice.gov.uk/neighbourhoodwatch/quiz/img/burglaralarm.jpg). Don’t believe that crap that burglars target homes with alarms because they must have something to protect. ---
**Author:** ![ivan\_astikov](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@ivan\_astikov](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivan_astikov)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2009, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-if-i-shouldnt-_shoot_-the-intruder-then/482060/700 "2009-01-22T22:08:26Z")
> [@Todderbob](#): > > ETA: And I shouldn’t have to stick something outside my house in order to prevent someone from burglarizing my home. No, you shouldn’t have to, but this is the real world we are living in and not the fantasy land some are imagining where lambs will frolic merrily with lions, and the like. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-if-i-shouldnt-_shoot_-the-intruder-then/482060.md?page=34) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-if-i-shouldnt-_shoot_-the-intruder-then/482060.md?page=36)