# Ok, if I shouldn't \_shoot\_ the intruder, then...? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 19, 2009, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-if-i-shouldnt-_shoot_-the-intruder-then/482060 "2009-01-19T23:15:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 43
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2009, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-if-i-shouldnt-_shoot_-the-intruder-then/482060/841 "2009-01-24T21:22:50Z")
> [@Cuckoorex](#): > > [Here](http://artiewayne.files.wordpress.com/2006/11/kitten-and-gun.jpg) we have graphic evidence of a mean ol’ homeowner perpetrating an atrocity against a cuddly widdle prison kitten. I am no expert on fire arms, but I would say that fella is most certainly getting a one way ticket across the “rainbow bridge” 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2009, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-if-i-shouldnt-_shoot_-the-intruder-then/482060/842 "2009-01-24T21:29:33Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > I settle for being proven correct over and over. Besides that is absolutely not true. I bring shitloads of cites. That is false. You reserve the right to reject any and all claims that refute you. that is dishonest but I expect that now. Mule muffins. You were not correct about handguns in Colonial America, and you have steadfastly refused to supply Scumpup _et al_ with the cites they’ve been asking you for for months now. Repeating that you were “proven correct” and hoping everyone else will just forget about it isn’t enough on the SDMB. This is the same stuff you pull in other threads, such a utility-related one IIRC. Don’t even bother to say you were “proven correct” again - post the cites, or admit you were wrong. ---
**Author:** ![1stFusilier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/1/58956e/32.png) [@1stFusilier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/1stFusilier)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2009, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-if-i-shouldnt-_shoot_-the-intruder-then/482060/843 "2009-01-25T20:30:04Z")
> [@Scumpup](#): > > Still haven’t answered the question. > > I don’t have any way of knowing, nor do I care, if the shitbag who breaks into my house is a druggie trying to feed his habit, a serial killer, a thrill-seeking teenager, a professional thief, a rapist, or some combination of the above. I do know what is going to happen to him. Now, try again to explain to me why I should feel bad about the demise of a criminal. How are you ever going to feel bad about the demise of a person when you have no interest whatsoever in finding out about them or what circumstances have led them to be in your house at 2am? By your own admission, you don’t know, you don’t care. You’re going to fire your gun regardless. That sounds like responsible gun use. ---
**Author:** ![ivan\_astikov](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@ivan\_astikov](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivan_astikov)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2009, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-if-i-shouldnt-_shoot_-the-intruder-then/482060/844 "2009-01-25T21:03:20Z")
> [@1stFusilier](#): > > How are you ever going to feel bad about the demise of a person when you have no interest whatsoever in finding out about them or what circumstances have led them to be in your house at 2am? > > By your own admission, you don’t know, you don’t care. You’re going to fire your gun regardless. That sounds like responsible gun use. “Prison kitties” don’t have personalities. That’s why they are so easy to drown at birth, beat with bats and plug with hollow points. Hey, guns are just a tool, ya know! ---
**Author:** ![1stFusilier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/1/58956e/32.png) [@1stFusilier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/1stFusilier)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2009, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-if-i-shouldnt-_shoot_-the-intruder-then/482060/845 "2009-01-25T21:29:56Z")
> [@billfish678](#): > > Forgot to add : > > For the scenario/trial I describe above, post 613, note that the criminal is still NOT getting shot for stealing, he is getting shot to PREVENT the theft of the car. I know its a subtle difference, but it is an important one. Shooting the tyres out would have exactly the same effect. ---
**Author:** ![Cuckoorex](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ad7895/32.png) [@Cuckoorex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cuckoorex)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2009, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-if-i-shouldnt-_shoot_-the-intruder-then/482060/846 "2009-01-25T21:34:15Z")
> [@1stFusilier](#): > > Shooting the tyres out would have exactly the same effect. Only if the person trying to steal the car was standing in front of the tires. How is it “the same effect?” ---
**Author:** ![ivan\_astikov](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@ivan\_astikov](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivan_astikov)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2009, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-if-i-shouldnt-_shoot_-the-intruder-then/482060/847 "2009-01-25T21:37:28Z")
> [@Cuckoorex](#): > > Only if the person trying to steal the car was standing in front of the tires. How is it “the same effect?” So, you’d rather shoot the thief than your tyres, to prevent your car being stolen? What’s wrong with firing to scare 1st, shooting the tyres out if he doesn’t scare easily( or is drugged out of his gourd), and _then_ considering shooting the perp? ---
**Author:** ![Cuckoorex](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ad7895/32.png) [@Cuckoorex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cuckoorex)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2009, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-if-i-shouldnt-_shoot_-the-intruder-then/482060/848 "2009-01-25T21:44:19Z")
> [@ivan\_astikov](#): > > So, you’d rather shoot the thief than your tyres, to prevent your car being stolen? Please explain to me how you derived this from what I wrote. Someone said that shooting the tires produces the exact same effect as shooting the thief. Shooting the thief (if you successfully hit him) produces an injured/possibly dead thief. Shooting the tires produces flat tires, but the act of shooting a gun ANYWHERE near a thief will likely result in a strong reaction of some kind by the thief, either to pull his own weapon, to hide behind something, or flee. But why shoot the tires? Why not shoot the wall? Shooting the wall will also very likely stop the act of stealing the car, and hey, bonus, you don’t have to get new tires! If my car is not in a garage or the garage is not connected to the house, it’s a far different scenario than someone breaking into my home at night with family present. ---
**Author:** ![Cuckoorex](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ad7895/32.png) [@Cuckoorex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cuckoorex)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2009, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-if-i-shouldnt-_shoot_-the-intruder-then/482060/849 "2009-01-25T21:45:52Z")
You people spell “tires” oddly. ---
**Author:** ![Huerta88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/82dd89/32.png) [@Huerta88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Huerta88)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2009, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-if-i-shouldnt-_shoot_-the-intruder-then/482060/850 "2009-01-25T21:47:21Z")
> [@ivan\_astikov](#): > > “Prison kitties” don’t have personalities. Sure they do. The minute I see an invasion kitten in my house, I can with unerring accuracy write the first line of what his online dating personality profile would look like (if he were being honest, which is of course a big if with prison kittens): “I enjoy leisure time, [fine wine, high-end electronics, nubile young girls], **and breaking into your house to take that shiat from you.** ” Bolding mine. I don’t go on to read the next line of the profile. That first part is all I need to know, to know all that I need in making an assessment of him and his presence in my home. If I’m online, I immediately go to the next profile. If I’m in my house, I treat him as a hostile person with a deeply flawed “personality.” I’m laughing aloud, not for the first time in this thread, now at the discussion of getting to know the invasion kitten, evaluating his personality (maybe give him a Miers-Briggs quiz?), “finding out about him,” learning about “the circumstances that led him to be there.” I hear a quick coffee date is a good low-pressure way to get acquainted. ---
**Author:** ![1stFusilier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/1/58956e/32.png) [@1stFusilier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/1stFusilier)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2009, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-if-i-shouldnt-_shoot_-the-intruder-then/482060/851 "2009-01-25T21:52:57Z")
> [@Cuckoorex](#): > > Only if the person trying to steal the car was standing in front of the tires. How is it “the same effect?” The OP I was replying to said he would shoot the thief to prevent the theft of his car. I personally prefer the more humane, less violent approach of shooting out the tyres thus preventing the theft of the car. I’m hoping you were being deliberately obtuse for comic effect. :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![1stFusilier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/1/58956e/32.png) [@1stFusilier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/1stFusilier)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2009, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-if-i-shouldnt-_shoot_-the-intruder-then/482060/852 "2009-01-25T21:53:59Z")
> [@Cuckoorex](#): > > Please explain to me how you derived this from what I wrote. Someone said that shooting the tires produces the exact same effect as shooting the thief. Shooting the thief (if you successfully hit him) produces an injured/possibly dead thief. Shooting the tires produces flat tires, but the act of shooting a gun ANYWHERE near a thief will likely result in a strong reaction of some kind by the thief, either to pull his own weapon, to hide behind something, or flee. But why shoot the tires? Why not shoot the wall? Shooting the wall will also very likely stop the act of stealing the car, and hey, bonus, you don’t have to get new tires! > > If my car is not in a garage or the garage is not connected to the house, it’s a far different scenario than someone breaking into my home at night with family present. PLease see my post above. ---
**Author:** ![1stFusilier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/1/58956e/32.png) [@1stFusilier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/1stFusilier)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2009, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-if-i-shouldnt-_shoot_-the-intruder-then/482060/853 "2009-01-25T21:55:43Z")
> [@Cuckoorex](#): > > You people spell “tires” oddly. Thank you.😃 ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2009, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-if-i-shouldnt-_shoot_-the-intruder-then/482060/854 "2009-01-25T21:58:19Z")
> [@1stFusilier](#): > > How are you ever going to feel bad about the demise of a person when you have no interest whatsoever in finding out about them or what circumstances have led them to be in your house at 2am? > > By your own admission, you don’t know, you don’t care. You’re going to fire your gun regardless. That sounds like responsible gun use. Unless the circumstances leading them to be in my house and [del]killing my mans[/del] taking my property somehow justify their actions, why would it change my reaction? Once you start deliberately hurting innocent bystanders (even just financially) for your own benefit, any sympathy for _why_ you need that benefit goes out the window. ---
**Author:** ![ivan\_astikov](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@ivan\_astikov](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivan_astikov)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2009, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-if-i-shouldnt-_shoot_-the-intruder-then/482060/855 "2009-01-25T21:59:20Z")
> [@Huerta88](#): > > Sure they do. The minute I see an invasion kitten in my house, I can with unerring accuracy write the first line of what his online dating personality profile would look like (if he were being honest, which is of course a big if with prison kittens): > > “I enjoy leisure time, [fine wine, high-end electronics, nubile young girls], **and breaking into your house to take that shiat from you.** ” > > Bolding mine. > > I don’t go on to read the next line of the profile. That first part is all I need to know, to know all that I need in making an assessment of him and his presence in my home. If I’m online, I immediately go to the next profile. If I’m in my house, I treat him as a hostile person with a deeply flawed “personality.” > > I’m laughing aloud, not for the first time in this thread, now at the discussion of getting to know the invasion kitten, evaluating his personality (maybe give him a Miers-Briggs quiz?), “finding out about him,” learning about “the circumstances that led him to be there.” I hear a quick coffee date is a good low-pressure way to get acquainted. Okay, I get you. You don’t give a shit about anything but you and yours, but you expect other people to give a shit about it. Because, it’s far easier to remove a criminal with a bullet, than it is to reform them with a little compassion and a lot of effort. ---
**Author:** ![Cuckoorex](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ad7895/32.png) [@Cuckoorex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cuckoorex)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2009, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-if-i-shouldnt-_shoot_-the-intruder-then/482060/856 "2009-01-25T21:59:31Z")
> [@1stFusilier](#): > > I personally prefer the more humane, less violent approach of shooting out the tyres thus preventing the theft of the car. So do I, except it makes little sense to actually shoot the tires. If the thief is SO determined to steal your car that he isn’t going to go into fight or flight mode as soon as you shoot ANYWHERE near him, he can probably manage to drive away with your car even on flat tires. And if he does immediately flee, now you’ve got flat tires as well. I suspect that ivan the former prison kitten would say that the far better solution would be to have those big tire-shredding spikes sticking up at the edge of the garage opening, controlled with an alpha-numeric keypad code. Why not do that instead? ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2009, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-if-i-shouldnt-_shoot_-the-intruder-then/482060/857 "2009-01-25T21:59:52Z")
> [@1stFusilier](#): > > How are you ever going to feel bad about the demise of a person when you have no interest whatsoever in finding out about them or what circumstances have led them to be in your house at 2am? > > By your own admission, you don’t know, you don’t care. You’re going to fire your gun regardless. That sounds like responsible gun use. If Mr. Intruder Fuzzy Bunny wanted to for us to find out about each other and get to know each other’s innermost thoughts and feelings, breaking into my fucking house wasn’t exactly the best way to go about it. He’d have done better to chat me up over a glass at one of my favorite watering holes. I’d have probably even bought the wings if he had a pert set of buttocks. By breaking into my house, he’s drastically limited my ability to bond with him. Now our options are limited to he flees/surrenders or I shoot him. Clearly, the real problem is that prison kitties don’t know how to handle their loneliness. ---
**Author:** ![Cuckoorex](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ad7895/32.png) [@Cuckoorex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cuckoorex)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2009, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-if-i-shouldnt-_shoot_-the-intruder-then/482060/858 "2009-01-25T22:01:29Z")
> [@ivan\_astikov](#): > > Okay, I get you. You don’t give a shit about anything but you and yours, but you expect other people to give a shit about it. > > Because, it’s far easier to remove a criminal with a bullet, than it is to reform them with a little compassion and a lot of effort. Now it’s the homeowner’s responsibility to reform the prison kittens?? You MUST be tro…tro…truly joking. ---
**Author:** ![ivan\_astikov](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@ivan\_astikov](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivan_astikov)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2009, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-if-i-shouldnt-_shoot_-the-intruder-then/482060/859 "2009-01-25T22:04:05Z")
> [@Cuckoorex](#): > > Now it’s the homeowner’s responsibility to reform the prison kittens?? > > You MUST be tro…tro…truly joking. No, it’s society’s responsibility, and I can guess the kind of society you want. \< cue Bonanza theme tune \> ---
**Author:** ![1stFusilier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/1/58956e/32.png) [@1stFusilier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/1stFusilier)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2009, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-if-i-shouldnt-_shoot_-the-intruder-then/482060/860 "2009-01-25T22:06:41Z")
> [@Cuckoorex](#): > > So do I, except it makes little sense to actually shoot the tires. If the thief is SO determined to steal your car that he isn’t going to go into fight or flight mode as soon as you shoot ANYWHERE near him, he can probably manage to drive away with your car even on flat tires. And if he does immediately flee, now you’ve got flat tires as well. > > I suspect that ivan the former prison kitten would say that the far better solution would be to have those big tire-shredding spikes sticking up at the edge of the garage opening, controlled with an alpha-numeric keypad code. Why not do that instead? Tell you what - there’s a lot of ‘ifs’ and ‘probablys’ in your scenario. How about just avoid anyone getting hurt by calling the police and leaving the justice business up to the trained professionals? I’m strongly with Kalhoun, Storonz and Ivan on this one. ‘Stuff’ is NEVER worth the cost of a human life. The ‘my home is my castle’ thing is a flimsy argument. BTW would you rather have the hassle of fixing new tyres for your car or the blood of a human being on your hands? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-if-i-shouldnt-_shoot_-the-intruder-then/482060.md?page=42) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-if-i-shouldnt-_shoot_-the-intruder-then/482060.md?page=44)