# Ok, if I shouldn't \_shoot\_ the intruder, then...? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 19, 2009, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-if-i-shouldnt-_shoot_-the-intruder-then/482060 "2009-01-19T23:15:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2009, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-if-i-shouldnt-_shoot_-the-intruder-then/482060/81 "2009-01-20T15:43:14Z")
> [@Cuckoorex](#): > > I live in Minnesota, but I don’t have a gun; I have a compound bow, which is about the only ranged weapon I have, unless you count throwing sharp and/or heavy things. I imagine that there are relatively rare circumstances where a bow could be used for home defense, but I wonder if the same rules apply regardless of the weapon used. You live in Minnesota and I live in Indiana so your mileage may vary, but when my husband shot a truck thief with a crossbow after said thief threatened to skewer him with an 18 inch long knife the police informed us that yes, pretty much the same rules applied. One bolt to the body and the thief ran off. Husband did not continue shooting nor did anyone pursue. Once the Bad Guy left the property our use of force stopped. No, we didn’t go to court and no one sued us. The police did investigate the site of the confrontation and took a dropped knife as evidence. It was pretty clearly a situation of self defense and no handcuffs or the like were involved, just questioning of my husband on site, examination of weapons involved, and examination of the truck, which remained in our driveway. We were reminded about Indiana law pertaining to ownership, use and transport of crossbows and bid good day. Of course, we also had called the police to report an attempted robbery and shooting and were entirely cooperative when they showed up, which always makes the cops happy, or at least less unhappy. They did run a quick check on the husband and found his record squeaky clean, which might also have been a factor in our favor. The only other after effect is that 8 years later we still hear stories about “the crazy redneck with the crossbow” living on our street. We also still have the 'bow, which is hanging in our bedroom above our bed, right next to the needlepoint I made of “The Prayer of St. Francis of Assisi” Yes, my life is full of contradictions. Perhaps it is best summed up by the fact I hate violence, but when necessary I am very good at ti. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2009, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-if-i-shouldnt-_shoot_-the-intruder-then/482060/82 "2009-01-20T15:49:25Z")
> [@billfish678](#): > > A TIVO is also not worth getting KILLED over either. > > So, one stupid guy kills for one. > > Another stupid guy GETS killed for one. > > Which guy is more stupid? Again the scenario outlined was that they guy was running out the door. Modifying it to suit is called moving the goal posts. ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2009, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-if-i-shouldnt-_shoot_-the-intruder-then/482060/83 "2009-01-20T15:50:32Z")
> [@](#): > > If he doesn’t want to get shot, he shouldn’t be breaking into people’s homes. This is the heart of it right here. ---
**Author:** ![Jolly\_Roger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/91b2a8/32.png) [@Jolly\_Roger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jolly_Roger)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2009, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-if-i-shouldnt-_shoot_-the-intruder-then/482060/84 "2009-01-20T15:51:57Z")
> [@Kalhoun](#): > > Call it whatever you want. If someone isn’t harming you, they aren’t harming you. Stealing a VCR does not equal intent to harm. Stealing my stuff _ **is harming me** _. When I was robbed, I felt violated. I did not have the money to replace the items stolen, either and I didn’t get jack from insurance as I was like 20 years old and didn’t have any. I hope the fuckhead that robbed me gets hit by a bus if he’s even still alive. Had I been home, how would I know that this guy wouldn’t harm me? He was a fucking drug addict…he could be capable of anything. If I wake up and catch the guy stealing my VCR/DVD/TiVo/PC how do I know he won’t become violent? If he stops and runs he might get away. If he surrenders he can wait for the cops to get there and take him in. If he does ANYTHING that I percieve as threatening he’s going to at best catch a beat down at worst a body bag. This is my home. My family is in here. Our lives and property are more valuable to me than some dirtbag that thinks he can walk in and take it. The point is he was in MY house taking MY things and I have no idea what he might do when confronted. I don’t care if he was just stealing a teacup, if I can take him down with non lethal force, great. If I end up klilling him, too bad, and his parents can go fuck themselves if they think he didn’t deserve it. He may not have, but then I didn’t deserve to have my home violated, my stuff taken or to feel that my family and myself may be in danger in our own home. If \*\*Scumpup \*\*shoots a guy stealing his stuff at 0230 in the morning in his den because he felt threatened and was afraid of what this burglar might do to his loved ones its the burglars fault. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2009, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-if-i-shouldnt-_shoot_-the-intruder-then/482060/85 "2009-01-20T15:56:37Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > Again the scenario outlined was that they guy was running out the door. Modifying it to suit is called moving the goal posts. If the only FACT we have is that the guy is running out the door, as far as I (and probably many others) am concerned, that, for all practical purposes provides pretty much zero guidance on either moral or legal grounds as to what is the right thing to do. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2009, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-if-i-shouldnt-_shoot_-the-intruder-then/482060/86 "2009-01-20T15:57:05Z")
> [@billfish678](#): > > Yeah, one would hope the criminals wouldnt call your bluff, but everything I’ve ever seen on tv:rolleyes: the criminals sure as hell usually don’t have any trouble running from armed pissed off cops, so I imagine angry harry the homeowner might not be able to pull this off regularly. Are you serious? You do realize that the TV shows pick the most exciting situations to make for good television right? That most arrests are mundane and boring affairs? Like the vast majority? You do recognize that also the vast majority of B&Es do not end in violence? People want a quick and profitable exercise. They make a cost benefit analysis like anyone else. It’s about easy money. It’s not about working hard. The moment it becomes tough you bolt. If they do shoot it’s usually in a panic. Very few people are making their last stand at the Alamo. ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2009, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-if-i-shouldnt-_shoot_-the-intruder-then/482060/87 "2009-01-20T15:58:41Z")
I think this thread is a great illustration of why getting a taser makes so much sense. If you have a gun you will have to face the possibility of having to fire that gun and possibly killing someone. Were they shot in the back? Were they an imminent threat? Was unnecessary force used? You may be in the right but you’ll still probably stand trial for that shit. You can always use a taser, it’ll make that guy think twice about stealing a Tivo again. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2009, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-if-i-shouldnt-_shoot_-the-intruder-then/482060/88 "2009-01-20T15:58:55Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > Are you serious? You do realize that the TV shows pick the most exciting situations to make for good television right? That most arrests are mundane and boring affairs? Like the vast majority? You do recognize that also the vast majority of B&Es do not end in violence? People want a quick and profitable exercise. They make a cost benefit analysis like anyone else. It’s about easy money. It’s not about working hard. The moment it becomes tough you bolt. If they do shoot it’s usually in a panic. Very few people are making their last stand at the Alamo. You dont understand :rolleyes: do you? ---
**Author:** ![Cuckoorex](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ad7895/32.png) [@Cuckoorex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cuckoorex)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2009, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-if-i-shouldnt-_shoot_-the-intruder-then/482060/89 "2009-01-20T15:59:43Z")
> [@billfish678](#): > > If the only FACT we have is that the guy is running out the door, as far as I (and probably many others) am concerned, that, for all practical purposes provides pretty much zero guidance on either moral or legal grounds as to what is the right thing to do. Maybe he realized that he left the handcuffs and duct tape in the van and he’s going to get them because he just realized he could get some bonus rapes/torture tonight because there are people home. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2009, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-if-i-shouldnt-_shoot_-the-intruder-then/482060/90 "2009-01-20T16:02:27Z")
> [@Scumpup](#): > > You are so determined to defend your position that you are now blaming the homeowner because the poor, put-upon criminal was forced to harm him? I call bullshit. No the point is at every moment up until the trigger is pulled you still have control over the situation. You have responsibility for your actions when you take another man’s life, simple as that. If you shoot an unarmed man in the back while he’s running away, do you really think you’ll be blaise about it? ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2009, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-if-i-shouldnt-_shoot_-the-intruder-then/482060/91 "2009-01-20T16:03:40Z")
> [@Kalhoun](#): > > Yeah, but the guy who’s stealing your VCR hasn’t raped or killed anyone! You’re assuming intent to harm. Nonetheless, the burden remains on the intruder to demonstrate, in a clear and unambiguous way, that he intends no harm (other than stealing my stuff). If he spots me, and dives out the window, with or without my DVD player (I don’t have TiVo), that is one thing. If he does anything else that might demonstrate an intent to do harm, that is quite another. The trouble is the way my house is laid out. In order to escape thru any of the doors or most of the windows, the intruder will have to move towards me, or one of the bedrooms where my family sleeps. This is Not Acceptable. Thus, I give my standard answer to these kinds of questions. Mr. Burglar has two options - [ol][li]Beat feet out along an escape route that does not involve moving towards me, or any member of my family. It is up to him to know what that route is, and he better not make any mistakes. Or [\*]Lie face down on the floor and think pleasant thoughts whilst I call the po-pos. Whether or not he has holes in his shirt before lying down is entirely up to him.[/ol]And if it turns out that I do need to make loud bangy noises to encourage him to Do the Right Thing, then “gee, officers - I thought I saw a glint of something metallic in his hand. He must have grabbed that steak knife from the kitchen before I spotted him.”[/li] Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2009, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-if-i-shouldnt-_shoot_-the-intruder-then/482060/92 "2009-01-20T16:03:56Z")
> [@billfish678](#): > > You dont understand :rolleyes: do you? No, I get it, you learned everything you need to know about criminals from, ‘The Shield’. Whip out those num chucks. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2009, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-if-i-shouldnt-_shoot_-the-intruder-then/482060/93 "2009-01-20T16:07:27Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > Are you serious? You do realize that the TV shows pick the most exciting situations to make for good television right? That most arrests are mundane and boring affairs? Like the vast majority? You do recognize that also the vast majority of B&Es do not end in violence? People want a quick and profitable exercise. They make a cost benefit analysis like anyone else. It’s about easy money. It’s not about working hard. The moment it becomes tough you bolt. If they do shoot it’s usually in a panic. Very few people are making their last stand at the Alamo. Also, that post was in reference to CITIZENS ARREST. You claim if things get tough, the turds will “bolt”. You just proved my point, based on your own information. Kinda defeats the purpose or utility of a citizens arrest doesnt it? And yeah, criminals that PANIC and shoot are sooo much better ! :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2009, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-if-i-shouldnt-_shoot_-the-intruder-then/482060/94 "2009-01-20T16:12:21Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > No the point is at every moment up until the trigger is pulled you still have control over the situation. You have responsibility for your actions when you take another man’s life, simple as that. If you shoot an unarmed man in the back while he’s running away, do you really think you’ll be blaise about it? I shot “at” someone once. Well, twice in one incident actually. It was the well poo pooed (and for good reasons usually) “warning shoot”. But the circumstances were optimum for it, and to this day I think its one of the best damn decisions I ever made in my life. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2009, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-if-i-shouldnt-_shoot_-the-intruder-then/482060/95 "2009-01-20T16:13:03Z")
**billfish678** Bottom line is you still have control over your actions and the situation to some degree. If you want to shoot some teenage hoodlum in the back, then that’s on you. If you want to kill, then go ahead do it, that’s on you. If what you care about is safety you won’t be trying any ‘citizen’s arrest’ heroics, you let them go. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2009, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-if-i-shouldnt-_shoot_-the-intruder-then/482060/96 "2009-01-20T16:14:09Z")
> [@billfish678](#): > > I shot “at” someone once. Well, twice in one incident actually. It was the well poo pooed (and for good reasons usually) “warning shoot”. > > But the circumstances were optimum for it, and to this day I think its one of the best damn decisions I ever made in my life. Yeah well you didn’t kill them. You have nothing to feel guilty for. You might feel differently if you’d killed them. ---
**Author:** ![Cuckoorex](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ad7895/32.png) [@Cuckoorex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cuckoorex)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2009, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-if-i-shouldnt-_shoot_-the-intruder-then/482060/97 "2009-01-20T16:14:25Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > No the point is at every moment up until the trigger is pulled you still have control over the situation. You have responsibility for your actions when you take another man’s life, simple as that. If you shoot an unarmed man in the back while he’s running away, do you really think you’ll be blaise about it? How the hell do you know he’s unarmed? You have x-ray vision, Superman? ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2009, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-if-i-shouldnt-_shoot_-the-intruder-then/482060/98 "2009-01-20T16:24:27Z")
> [@](#): > > How the hell do you know he’s unarmed? You have x-ray vision, Superman? No, he’s not Superman and he doesn’t have X-ray vision. Obviously he’s Paul Muad’Dib and his \*prescient vision \*allows him to know what an intruder will do. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2009, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-if-i-shouldnt-_shoot_-the-intruder-then/482060/99 "2009-01-20T16:24:55Z")
> [@Cuckoorex](#): > > How the hell do you know he’s unarmed? You have x-ray vision, Superman? Examine his corpse. ---
**Author:** ![Mojo\_Pin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Mojo\_Pin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mojo_Pin)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2009, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-if-i-shouldnt-_shoot_-the-intruder-then/482060/100 "2009-01-20T16:29:37Z")
[QUOTE=Odesio] What does honor have to do with it? It’s not a game. [/QUOTE] > [@Lynn\_Bodoni](#): > > Right. If I make a poor decision in a game, I might lose the game. If I make a poor decision in Real Life, I might lose my Real Life. I prefer keeping my Real Life. > > At least, until they can upload me into a really good computer and I can finally game all I want. I understand you’re at least half joking, but maybe someone with different priorities than you would consider a dishonorable life one already lost? Of course I don’t mean me, I’m a total nitwit and a coward, but I’ll bet a samurai wouldn’t chase a burglar out his front door at 3 in the morning in his briefs and shoot him in the back. Even if he lived in Texas. [QUOTE=billfish678] I shot “at” someone once. Well, twice in one incident actually. It was the well poo pooed (and for good reasons usually) “warning shoot”. But the circumstances were optimum for it, and to this day I think its one of the best damn decisions I ever made in my life. [/QUOTE] Hey good for you, I wish a tenth of all shootings ended half as well. Come to think of it, you probably gave the other guy the adrenaline rush of his life–a win/win for everyone! 😛 Like Churchill said, “nothing in life is so exhilarating as to be shot at without result” right? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-if-i-shouldnt-_shoot_-the-intruder-then/482060.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-if-i-shouldnt-_shoot_-the-intruder-then/482060.md?page=6)