# OK im confused about this one ...... filling out a job app is bad or beneath certain people now?
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-im-confused-about-this-one-filling-out-a-job-app-is-bad-or-beneath-certain-people-now/960878
**Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share
**Created:** [March 11, 2022, 6:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-im-confused-about-this-one-filling-out-a-job-app-is-bad-or-beneath-certain-people-now/960878 "2022-03-11T06:46:33Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 2
### Author:  [@doreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doreen)
#### Post date: [March 11, 2022, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-im-confused-about-this-one-filling-out-a-job-app-is-bad-or-beneath-certain-people-now/960878/21 "2022-03-11T15:39:58Z")
They can often collect even if you do have a reason for firing them - in most states there is a distinction made between someone fired for misconduct and someone fired for poor performance.
In any event, I didn’t understand the post I replied to as being about unemployment eligibility - and even if it was, if being fired for a lie on an application makes a person ineligible for unemployment, so would the same lie on a resume. It’s not like someone who lied about having a degree on a resume gets unemployment while the person who lied about having a degree on the application doesn’t.
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### Author:  [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)
#### Post date: [March 11, 2022, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-im-confused-about-this-one-filling-out-a-job-app-is-bad-or-beneath-certain-people-now/960878/22 "2022-03-11T17:37:22Z")
They don’t sign their resume, affirming that everything that they said is true.
So, if it turns out that they didn’t have that degree that they claimed on their resume, then you are firing them for performance, they are unable to do the job required. If it turns out that they lied on their application and signed it, then you are firing them for misconduct.
I had an employee who quit working for me, and got a job she was entirely unqualified for, where she had lied on her resume to get it(she had gone to college for the degree she claimed to have, but never came anywhere near graduating). When they found that she was unqualified, they let her go, but, since she only worked for them for a couple weeks, and worked for me for about a year, I ended up being liable for most of her unemployment.
I don’t know if the post you were replying to had anything to do with unemployment, I am bringing it up as a reason to make sure that people fill out an application in general.
My application states that if you turned in a resume, then you don’t have to fill out any of the job or education information contained on it. Just the top part that has your vital information, and a questionnaire on the back. There _is_ space for people to put that info in, if they didn’t have a resume or they want to for shits and giggles. And I do have them sign it as well. I’ve never fired anyone for lying on their application, but I have had some times when they would claim one availability on their app, and then entirely change it once hired.
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### Author:  [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)
#### Post date: [March 11, 2022, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-im-confused-about-this-one-filling-out-a-job-app-is-bad-or-beneath-certain-people-now/960878/23 "2022-03-11T17:49:48Z")
> [@nightshadea](#):
>
> … But are Résumés and linked in etc making job applications obsolete? Or was filling out an application in front of the interviewer beneath her and a waste of time? I thought it was a test of some sort myself
I can’t for the life of me imagine having a candidate come in for an interview and then ask them to fill out an application during that time. The candidate was completely in the right for bugging out at that point and the company really should reconsider how they handle interviews. When you interview a candidate they are also interviewing you, but a lot of managers are rather myopic in thinking candidates should be grateful for the opportunity to work.
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### Author:  [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)
#### Post date: [March 11, 2022, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-im-confused-about-this-one-filling-out-a-job-app-is-bad-or-beneath-certain-people-now/960878/24 "2022-03-11T17:54:13Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#):
>
> I ended up being liable for most of her unemployment.
I don’t want to derail the thread, but what does this mean, please? I don’t understand. In the US, do employers pay unemployment benefits?
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### Author:  [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)
#### Post date: [March 11, 2022, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-im-confused-about-this-one-filling-out-a-job-app-is-bad-or-beneath-certain-people-now/960878/25 "2022-03-11T18:00:28Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#):
>
> I don’t want to derail the thread, but what does this mean, please? I don’t understand. In the US, do employers pay unemployment benefits?
I think every time a Canadian reads a thread about US employment culture, we discover some new kind of horror.
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### Author:  [@doreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doreen)
#### Post date: [March 11, 2022, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-im-confused-about-this-one-filling-out-a-job-app-is-bad-or-beneath-certain-people-now/960878/26 "2022-03-11T18:02:46Z")
I don’t know of anyplace where employers directly pay the benefits - but in much of the US, an employer’s premium rates depend on the number of claims made by their employees.
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### Author:  [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)
#### Post date: [March 11, 2022, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-im-confused-about-this-one-filling-out-a-job-app-is-bad-or-beneath-certain-people-now/960878/27 "2022-03-11T18:04:05Z")
> [@Icarus](#):
>
> At one time (who knows, things may have changed), HR professionals were taught that the Application is considered a legal document, whereas the Resume is not. You typically are asked to sign (or e-sign) an application, and if you lie on it that is grounds for termination. A Resume is not given the same weight.
When it comes to litigation, I’m frequently asked by our attorney and the plaintiff’s attorney to provide resumes or applications of employees when it comes to discrimination complaints. I’ve never had to term someone for lying on their resume before, but I wouldn’t be fearful of litigation if I did.
> [@Mighty\_Mouse](#):
>
> They used to do panel interviews with the entire management team of the department (basically peers to this position) meeting you at once but because these are awkward on Zoom they do this with individual interviews. Most of the questions they ask are exactly the same. I assume they are prescribed by HR. Then you have 4-15 minutes of more open discussion.
While it might be HR, please don’t make that assumption. Despite my pleading, one of my hiring managers insists on conducting interviews with up to ten people on the panel which is just ridiculous. Not only is it a bit overwhelming for the candidate, but it’s not like most of the other panel members can participate meaningfully during the interview process anyway. But HR doesn’t rule the world and ultimately management does what management wants to do.
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### Author:  [@doreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doreen)
#### Post date: [March 11, 2022, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-im-confused-about-this-one-filling-out-a-job-app-is-bad-or-beneath-certain-people-now/960878/28 "2022-03-11T18:28:04Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#):
>
> So, if it turns out that they didn’t have that degree that they claimed on their resume, then you are firing them for performance, they are unable to do the job required.
Actually , you’re firing them for lying about their qualifications - they may be performing just fine without the degree. In fact, the person may even have lied about a degree to get a job that didn’t require one to begin with. [This](https://thetech.com/2007/04/27/jones-v127-n21) person was “asked to resign” \* in 2007. She had been in the position she resigned from since 1998, so apparently she was not fired for poor performance. And the lies were initially on a resume she used to get hired for a job that didn’t require a degree - in _1979_
\* which typically means “or we will fire you, but we will give you the opportunity to resign so that you can truthfully deny being fired in the future”
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### Author:  [@Shoeless](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shoeless)
#### Post date: [March 11, 2022, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-im-confused-about-this-one-filling-out-a-job-app-is-bad-or-beneath-certain-people-now/960878/29 "2022-03-11T18:31:40Z")
> [@Icarus](#):
>
> At one time (who knows, things may have changed), HR professionals were taught that the Application is considered a legal document, whereas the Resume is not. You typically are asked to sign (or e-sign) an application, and if you lie on it that is grounds for termination. A Resume is not given the same weight.
>
> I would say it would be incumbent on the employer to carefully explain this distinction when requesting that a candidate fill out an application.
I think I have told this story before, but after working for the same company for 15-20 years, I got called in to HR one day. They had just been through an audit during which they discovered that there was no application in my personnel file. So they wanted me to fill one out.
The funny thing was, nobody could answer the question “Do you want me to fill it out as if I was applying today, or like I would have filled it out 15 years ago?” It was almost like they didn’t care what was on it, just as long as they had one on file.
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### Author:  [@Slithy\_Tove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slithy_Tove)
#### Post date: [March 11, 2022, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-im-confused-about-this-one-filling-out-a-job-app-is-bad-or-beneath-certain-people-now/960878/30 "2022-03-11T18:33:29Z")
People who lie about their qualifications steal jobs from people who have earned those qualifications.
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### Author:  [@griffin1977](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/griffin1977)
#### Post date: [March 11, 2022, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-im-confused-about-this-one-filling-out-a-job-app-is-bad-or-beneath-certain-people-now/960878/31 "2022-03-11T18:37:18Z")
> [@nightshadea](#):
>
> are Résumés and linked in etc making job applications obsolete?
They _should_ be. But they aren’t. Its pretty typical to be force to fill out all the same information you’ve just filled out on your resume, and on linked in, on a pointless company application form.
I’m 100% with the interviewee on this one (given they already had an offer), if they company is has so little respect for your time as an interviewee to force him to do this (on his own dime, during an interview he’s not getting paid for) then they I would assume that they are going to show even more disrespect when they are paying for my time.
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### Author:  [@griffin1977](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/griffin1977)
#### Post date: [March 11, 2022, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-im-confused-about-this-one-filling-out-a-job-app-is-bad-or-beneath-certain-people-now/960878/32 "2022-03-11T18:38:39Z")
> [@Icarus](#):
>
> HR professionals were taught that the Application is considered a legal document, whereas the Resume is not.
Do you have a cite for this? Smells of justification for making people fill out pointless paperwork (but could be wrong).
But even if it is, would any company ever actually take someone to court for lying on their resume (assuming they aren’t a brain surgeon who lied about going to medical school), for a regular job the absolute worst that is going to happen is you’ll be let go.
There are professional or academic qualifications that people could lie about but I have trouble believing an application form would be considered more legally binding than any written document where you claim to have degree/qualification X where you don’t.
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### Author:  [@Icarus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Icarus)
#### Post date: [March 11, 2022, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-im-confused-about-this-one-filling-out-a-job-app-is-bad-or-beneath-certain-people-now/960878/33 "2022-03-11T18:43:12Z")
> [@griffin1977](#):
>
> Do you have a cite for this?
Do I have a cite for “HR professionals were taught that the Application is considered a legal document”? Yes, my memory of being taught this.
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### Author:  [@griffin1977](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/griffin1977)
#### Post date: [March 11, 2022, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-im-confused-about-this-one-filling-out-a-job-app-is-bad-or-beneath-certain-people-now/960878/34 "2022-03-11T18:44:00Z")
> [@Icarus](#):
>
> Do I have a cite for “HR professionals were taught that the Application is considered a legal document”? Yes, my memory of being taught this.
That they were taught something that was actual true in some jurisdictions.
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### Author:  [@Icarus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Icarus)
#### Post date: [March 11, 2022, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-im-confused-about-this-one-filling-out-a-job-app-is-bad-or-beneath-certain-people-now/960878/35 "2022-03-11T18:53:14Z")
[Resume vs job application](https://www.fivestrengths.com/2015/06/16/resume-vs-job-application/) repeats my assertion. And before you go any further, I am not a lawyer, and will not spend time researching legal publications to honor your demand for a cite. Thankyouverymuch.
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### Author:  [@Mighty\_Mouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Mouse)
#### Post date: [March 11, 2022, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-im-confused-about-this-one-filling-out-a-job-app-is-bad-or-beneath-certain-people-now/960878/36 "2022-03-11T18:58:45Z")
Never mind
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### Author:  [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)
#### Post date: [March 11, 2022, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-im-confused-about-this-one-filling-out-a-job-app-is-bad-or-beneath-certain-people-now/960878/37 "2022-03-11T18:59:51Z")
> [@Icarus](#):
>
> Do I have a cite for “HR professionals were taught that the Application is considered a legal document”? Yes, my memory of being taught this.
To be fair, there is sometimes a difference between what is legally required and what is “best practice.” I would not doubt it if some HR professionals had it in their head that it was best practice to have an application.
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### Author:  [@digs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/digs)
#### Post date: [March 11, 2022, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-im-confused-about-this-one-filling-out-a-job-app-is-bad-or-beneath-certain-people-now/960878/38 "2022-03-11T19:05:01Z")
> [@Pardel-Lux](#):
>
> what I don’t understand iis the need to post this on “social media” or why newsweek reports it like it was newsworthy. It’s a big meh for me.
But I’ll bet it’s news to that middling middle-age middle-manager who’s been doing that job the exact same way for thirty years.
Three decades of “Fill out this form while I do some busywork” and “What are all your skills? Please include buzzwords I would be aware of” and “Where do you see yourself in five years? Ten? Twenty?”
I hope they see this (in the printed version of Newsweek, or their kid’s Twitfacegram) and say “Hmmm, maybe we _are_ alienating everyone under 40 with our approach…”
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### Author:  [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)
#### Post date: [March 11, 2022, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-im-confused-about-this-one-filling-out-a-job-app-is-bad-or-beneath-certain-people-now/960878/39 "2022-03-11T19:11:43Z")
I have no doubt that a legally binding job application filled out during or before an interview can be replaced by a legally binding job acceptance document filled out during the onboarding process.
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### Author:  [@Projammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Projammer)
#### Post date: [March 11, 2022, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-im-confused-about-this-one-filling-out-a-job-app-is-bad-or-beneath-certain-people-now/960878/40 "2022-03-11T19:18:47Z")
I’ve long complained that I should be able to upload my resume in XML format where their system can grab the info info it needs and then generate a form requesting anything extra they want from me.
This should have become an industry standard a decade ago. If not earlier.
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