# OK im confused about this one ...... filling out a job app is bad or beneath certain people now?
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-im-confused-about-this-one-filling-out-a-job-app-is-bad-or-beneath-certain-people-now/960878
**Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share
**Created:** [March 11, 2022, 6:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-im-confused-about-this-one-filling-out-a-job-app-is-bad-or-beneath-certain-people-now/960878 "2022-03-11T06:46:33Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 3
### Author:  [@Pardel-Lux](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pardel-Lux)
#### Post date: [March 11, 2022, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-im-confused-about-this-one-filling-out-a-job-app-is-bad-or-beneath-certain-people-now/960878/41 "2022-03-11T19:24:18Z")
> [@digs](#):
>
> I hope they see this (in the printed version of Newsweek, or their kid’s Twitfacegram) and say “Hmmm, maybe we _are_ alienating everyone under 40 with our approach…”
You expect a bureaucrat, or actually any person in the world who has been doing a job pushing papers “the exact same way for thirty years” and who of course knows well enough, or best actually, and who come to think of it does not give a damn to _learn_ from other people’s experiences? You are an optimist!
---
### Author:  [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)
#### Post date: [March 11, 2022, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-im-confused-about-this-one-filling-out-a-job-app-is-bad-or-beneath-certain-people-now/960878/42 "2022-03-11T19:36:39Z")
> [@DCnDC](#):
>
> Not to disillusion anyone, but this is SOP when applying to Federal jobs. You can have all the resumes and degrees and letters of recommendation in the world, but you **still** have to fill out this form with the same information, and when you’re done with that, write it all on this one too, and then this one, and this one, and this one. And you did all that in triplicate, right? (and then all the paperwork you have to fill out _after_ they actually hire you, phew!)
But not by hand and not during the interview.
Look, there is nothing wrong with asking for a job application also.
But those should be done online, so the applicant can copy and paste fro resume etc.
There is no, repeat **NO** reason to ask for a _professional level resume_ to be filled out longhand during an interview.
> [@k9bfriender](#):
>
> They don’t sign their resume, affirming that everything that they said is true.
_e-sign._ Totally valid for most things.
---
### Author:  [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)
#### Post date: [March 11, 2022, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-im-confused-about-this-one-filling-out-a-job-app-is-bad-or-beneath-certain-people-now/960878/43 "2022-03-11T19:50:31Z")
The real issue is that term _HR professionals_ because they usually aren’t professionals, they worked their way up.
Having ultimate power with no one to contradict them, HR staff can get weird.
I was on a discussion once with several HR heads. At that time the practice was to mail in a hard copy of the resume right before the interview. Okay, fine. But one HR head said that if the resume wasn’t on the best bond paper, it showed you didn’t care enough, so the resume was shitcanned.
Another disagreed. They said that using anything but copy paper was pretentious, and the bond paper ones would be shitcanned.
And there is no one to call them on this sort of stuff. HR heads or even just staff can shitcan your application/resume for whatever they feel like, and no one ever calls them on it.
HR will reject a resume for a font they don’t like, or some imagined tiny grammar error - like using or not using the Oxford comma, etc.
I was consulting with a big company. HR figured they could save so much $$ by moving the fraud and AML depts to a cheaper city. The VP of those depts objected, as she knew full well that the smaller, less cosmopolitan town didn’t have the experienced staff she needed. To no avail as HR simply showed that had lots of applications for the positions. So, they lost all their best staff to save some $$. Staff with 20 years of experience were replaced with people fresh out of college.
---
### Author:  [@Pardel-Lux](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pardel-Lux)
#### Post date: [March 11, 2022, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-im-confused-about-this-one-filling-out-a-job-app-is-bad-or-beneath-certain-people-now/960878/44 "2022-03-11T20:37:00Z")
Where do you see yourself in five years?
Filling up questionnaires.
What are your strong points?
Filling up questionnaires.
Tell us about a mistake you once made, and how you solved it.
I filled up a questionnaire wrongly. I corrected it with another questionnaire, in triplicate form.
[_Von der Wiege bis zur Bahre, Formulare, Formulare…_](https://www.deepl.com/translator#de/en/Von%20der%20Wiege%20bis%20zur%20Bahre%2C%20Formulare%2C%20Formulare...)
---
### Author:  [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)
#### Post date: [March 11, 2022, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-im-confused-about-this-one-filling-out-a-job-app-is-bad-or-beneath-certain-people-now/960878/45 "2022-03-11T20:42:49Z")
> [@not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](#):
>
> When I was hiring, the last thing I had was time and I’d be damned if I was going to sit in front of every applicant for how ever long it would take them to complete an application. That’s just dumb and not productive at all. Plus it sounds like a power play. You must know how nervous that would make most people.
The person was lucky. The next step in the process was probably giving a sample for a urine test in front of HR.
What struck me was that it was a paper form? Did they give 286 machines to their employees also? The last time I got hired, 25 years ago, I did fill out an application but that was after I pretty much was sure I was going to get hired, and I’m pretty sure I got the form to fill out later, after I got told the benefits.
---
### Author:  [@Slithy\_Tove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slithy_Tove)
#### Post date: [March 11, 2022, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-im-confused-about-this-one-filling-out-a-job-app-is-bad-or-beneath-certain-people-now/960878/46 "2022-03-11T21:03:06Z")
Top this: I relocated to a large suburban area with a current national pharmacy tech board certification and references. Walgreens, despite having a regional HQ, required applicants to go to each store, stand at the kiosk, and enter all that information store by store, as well as the Myers-Briggs-inspired “do you enjoy it when you steal from your workplace” personality questionnaire. Over and over. I found better pay in another field.
---
### Author:  [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)
#### Post date: [March 11, 2022, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-im-confused-about-this-one-filling-out-a-job-app-is-bad-or-beneath-certain-people-now/960878/47 "2022-03-11T21:39:30Z")
> [@DrDeth](#):
>
> Having ultimate power with no one to contradict them, HR staff can get weird.
Having ultimate power makes anyone weird. I don’t know of any HR that wields ultimate power though. I do know a lot of managers will invoke HR for unpopular policies. “HR is making us do…” Well, no. HR is enforcing policies that management has dictated.
> [@DrDeth](#):
>
> I was on a discussion once with several HR heads. At that time the practice was to mail in a hard copy of the resume right before the interview. Okay, fine. But one HR head said that if the resume wasn’t on the best bond paper, it showed you didn’t care enough, so the resume was shitcanned.
Disqualifying candidates for stupid arbitrary reasons is a problem. It’s just a stupid practice that ends up hurting the company by removing good candidates from the pool.
> [@DrDeth](#):
>
> The VP of those depts objected, as she knew full well that the smaller, less cosmopolitan town didn’t have the experienced staff she needed. To no avail as HR simply showed that had lots of applications for the positions. So, they lost all their best staff to save some $$. Staff with 20 years of experience were replaced with people fresh out of college.
And this is the tail wagging the dog here. If I were to tell one of my line managers how to run their business they’d ream my ass. I might bring things to their attention, but ultimately they run the business not me.
---
### Author:  [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)
#### Post date: [March 11, 2022, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-im-confused-about-this-one-filling-out-a-job-app-is-bad-or-beneath-certain-people-now/960878/48 "2022-03-11T21:57:06Z")
Employers pay unemployment insurance, and what you pay is based on a number of factors, but the largest is your “experience rate”, which is how much is paid out.
When I had that employee pull that on me, my rate went from 1.7% to 5.2%, meaning that I was paying 3.5% more on my payroll taxes, _not_ an insignificant increase in cost.
At least, that’s how it is in Ohio. Every state has a different system, and may do things far differently.
> [@doreen](#):
>
> in much of the US, an employer’s premium rates depend on the number of claims made by their employees.
Along with other factors based on the average experience rate of the industry you are in. But yeah, having unemployment benefits get paid out can significantly raise that rate.
---
### Author:  [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)
#### Post date: [March 11, 2022, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-im-confused-about-this-one-filling-out-a-job-app-is-bad-or-beneath-certain-people-now/960878/49 "2022-03-11T22:05:47Z")
> [@griffin1977](#):
>
> would any company ever actually take someone to court for lying on their resume (assuming they aren’t a brain surgeon who lied about going to medical school), for a regular job the absolute worst that is going to happen is you’ll be let go.
It’s the other way around. It’s CYA in case the fired employee takes the company to court over wrongful termination or denying their unemployment claim.
> [@griffin1977](#):
>
> There are professional or academic qualifications that people could lie about but I have trouble believing an application form would be considered more legally binding than any written document where you claim to have degree/qualification X where you don’t.
A resume isn’t signed, an application _is_. Signing things does have legal weight.
---
### Author:  [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)
#### Post date: [March 11, 2022, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-im-confused-about-this-one-filling-out-a-job-app-is-bad-or-beneath-certain-people-now/960878/50 "2022-03-11T22:08:54Z")
> [@DrDeth](#):
>
> _e-sign._ Totally valid for most things.
I get resumes from Indeed every day.
Not a single one of them is e-signed. Never, not once. This isn’t something that happens.
---
### Author:  [@Icarus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Icarus)
#### Post date: [March 11, 2022, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-im-confused-about-this-one-filling-out-a-job-app-is-bad-or-beneath-certain-people-now/960878/51 "2022-03-11T22:10:59Z")
> [@Projammer](#):
>
> I’ve long complained that I should be able to upload my resume in XML format where their system can grab the info info it needs and then generate a form requesting anything extra they want from me.
>
> This should have become an industry standard a decade ago. If not earlier.
I spent the last 20 years of my career working on these types of systems. For a myriad of reasons, they are just not there yet. The usual pattern is for the companies to implement this feature, run it for a year or two, and then dump it because it doesn’t work well enough, and requires too much manual intervention.
---
### Author:  [@Ranch\_Dip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranch_Dip)
#### Post date: [March 11, 2022, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-im-confused-about-this-one-filling-out-a-job-app-is-bad-or-beneath-certain-people-now/960878/52 "2022-03-11T22:16:29Z")
> [@Princhester](#):
>
> is demeaning at that level IMHO.
It’s demeaning at any level.
---
### Author:  [@iamthewalrus\_3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iamthewalrus_3)
#### Post date: [March 11, 2022, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-im-confused-about-this-one-filling-out-a-job-app-is-bad-or-beneath-certain-people-now/960878/53 "2022-03-11T22:17:24Z")
> [@Odesio](#):
>
> When you interview a candidate they are also interviewing you, but a lot of managers are rather myopic in thinking candidates should be grateful for the opportunity to work.
I think this is absolutely the crux of the issue, and I’d have bugged out, too. If I’m a professional in the job market, I’m aware of what I bring to the table and I’m interviewing to find a compatible and mutually beneficial employer. If the hiring manager approaches the interview from the perspective of “dance for your supper, peon”, that’s not going to be compatible with my expectations, and we can both save a lot of time by moving on.
> [@nightshadea](#):
>
> Or was filling out an application in front of the interviewer beneath her and a waste of time?
Yes! But more importantly (because we all end up having to deal with some amount of time wasting nonsense in our personal and professional lives) it was a strong signal that this job would be absolutely filled to the brim with such nonsense.
---
### Author:  [@Mighty\_Mouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Mouse)
#### Post date: [March 11, 2022, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-im-confused-about-this-one-filling-out-a-job-app-is-bad-or-beneath-certain-people-now/960878/54 "2022-03-11T22:17:33Z")
I am involved in a lawsuit right now where the case hinges on a number of allegedly fake representations made via email by a citizen to organs of the town government. Not a single letter with a signature in sight.
Somehow no one has raised the issue that there was no signature so the guy can’t be legally (possibly criminally) liable.
---
### Author:  [@griffin1977](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/griffin1977)
#### Post date: [March 11, 2022, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-im-confused-about-this-one-filling-out-a-job-app-is-bad-or-beneath-certain-people-now/960878/55 "2022-03-11T22:24:52Z")
> [@DCnDC](#):
>
> Not to disillusion anyone, but this is SOP when applying to Federal jobs.
Though if you are applying for a federal job and have a problem with pointless arbitrary paperwork you are probably still best walking out of the interview, as working for the feds really isn’t for you.
---
### Author:  [@Roger\_That](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roger_That)
#### Post date: [March 11, 2022, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-im-confused-about-this-one-filling-out-a-job-app-is-bad-or-beneath-certain-people-now/960878/56 "2022-03-11T22:37:02Z")
Slight hijack: this is also increasingly common in doctors’ offices, where you get asked to fill out nine-page forms that you have already filled out. “You already have this information.” “Yes, well, we need it filled out again.”
---
### Author:  [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)
#### Post date: [March 11, 2022, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-im-confused-about-this-one-filling-out-a-job-app-is-bad-or-beneath-certain-people-now/960878/57 "2022-03-11T22:37:24Z")
I don’t know the details of your case, but are you saying that a signature has _no_ legal implications?
When I bought my house, I had to sign some stuff. When I leased my space for my business, I had to sign some stuff. When I got loans and lines of credit, I had to sign stuff.
Were all those signatures unnecessary?
Does a general statement hold as much weight as an affidavit?
---
### Author:  [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)
#### Post date: [March 11, 2022, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-im-confused-about-this-one-filling-out-a-job-app-is-bad-or-beneath-certain-people-now/960878/58 "2022-03-11T22:38:21Z")
> [@Odesio](#):
>
> Having ultimate power makes anyone weird. I don’t know of any HR that wields ultimate power though. I do know a lot of managers will invoke HR for unpopular policies. “HR is making us do…” Well, no. HR is enforcing policies that management has dictated.
Sure. That sort of thing. But HR can shitcan any resume, and no one calls them on it.
> [@k9bfriender](#):
>
> I get resumes from Indeed every day.
>
> Not a single one of them is e-signed. Never, not once. This isn’t something that happens.
Sure. But I use Indeed, and you are often directed to the companies site where you answer questions, and e-sign the answers.
---
### Author:  [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)
#### Post date: [March 11, 2022, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-im-confused-about-this-one-filling-out-a-job-app-is-bad-or-beneath-certain-people-now/960878/59 "2022-03-11T22:47:27Z")
> [@DrDeth](#):
>
> But I use Indeed, and you are often directed to the companies site where you answer questions, and e-sign the answers.
Okay, that’s nice, but you’ve now moved the goalposts pretty far from where we started here. I fail to see how this statement is relevant in any way.
---
### Author:  [@Projammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Projammer)
#### Post date: [March 11, 2022, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-im-confused-about-this-one-filling-out-a-job-app-is-bad-or-beneath-certain-people-now/960878/60 "2022-03-11T22:51:08Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#):
>
> but are you saying that a signature has _no_ legal implications?
I believe you were understanding that backwards. The statement was that there were no signatures therefore no legal binding or liability.
[Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-im-confused-about-this-one-filling-out-a-job-app-is-bad-or-beneath-certain-people-now/960878.md?page=2)
[Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-im-confused-about-this-one-filling-out-a-job-app-is-bad-or-beneath-certain-people-now/960878.md?page=4)