# Ok,Im new here,Carol is the name **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [April 18, 2010, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-im-new-here-carol-is-the-name/536534 "2010-04-18T15:34:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2010, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-im-new-here-carol-is-the-name/536534/41 "2010-04-19T14:36:21Z")
> [@carol\_nistri](#): > > harty har har,Im talking rip snorting cattle mutes,and I am not amused that this has been tossed onto a mundane heap,but nevertheless here we are.Now who do I talk to about this subject,Cecil will do. I thought you would use _this_ thread to introduce yourself and talk about personal stuff and [this one to talk about the cattle thing](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=12356913). There’s really no need for two separate threads, but for now I’ll leave them alone. If you want comments from Cecil or the staff, a thread in Comments on Cecil’s Columns is the best place. > [@carol\_nistri](#): > > Its like saying crop circles are nothing more then two or three bloakes walking around a field in Whiltshire England with some planks and ropes.Nopes,doesnt fit. Not to drag this thread off subject, but what’s your explanation for _that_? > [@Rushgeekgirl](#): > > Wait, what? **Marley** is dead? Say it ain’t so! I got better. ---
**Author:** ![Zebra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/c0e974/32.png) [@Zebra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zebra)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2010, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-im-new-here-carol-is-the-name/536534/42 "2010-04-19T14:39:11Z")
So **carol** , Are you a rancher? Do you have any first hand experience with cattle mutilations? Or with Ken Rhommel? ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2010, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-im-new-here-carol-is-the-name/536534/43 "2010-04-19T15:25:10Z")
_Some people have made the mistake of seeing Shunt’s work as a load of rubbish about railway timetables, but clever people like me, who talk loudly in restaurants, see this as a deliberate ambiguity, a plea for understanding in a mechanized world. The points are frozen, the beast is dead. What is the difference? What indeed is the point? The point is frozen, the beast is late out of Paddington. The point is taken. If La Fontaine’s elk would spurn Tom Jones the engine must be our head, the dining car our oesophagus, the guard’s van our left lung, the cattle truck our shins, the first-class compartment the piece of skin at the nape of the neck and the level crossing an electric elk called Simon. The clarity is devastating. But where is the ambiguity? It’s over there in a box. Shunt is saying the 8.15 from Gillingham when in reality he means the 8.13 from Gillingham. The train is the same only the time is altered. Ecce homo, ergo elk. La Fontaine knew his sister and knew her bloody well. The point is taken, the beast is moulting, the fluff gets up your nose. The illusion is complete; it is reality, the reality is illusion and the ambiguity is the only truth. But is the truth, as Hitchcock observes, in the box? No there isn’t room, the ambiguity has put on weight. The point is taken, the elk is dead, the beast stops at Swindon, Chabrol stops at nothing, I’m having treatment and La Fontaine can get knotted._ Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Dolly\_Madison](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3be4f8/32.png) [@Dolly\_Madison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dolly_Madison)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2010, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-im-new-here-carol-is-the-name/536534/44 "2010-04-19T16:11:37Z")
> [@stranger on a train](#): > > _some people have made the mistake of seeing shunt’s work as a load of rubbish about railway timetables, but clever people like me, who talk loudly in restaurants, see this as a deliberate ambiguity, a plea for understanding in a mechanized world. The points are frozen, the beast is dead. What is the difference? What indeed is the point? The point is frozen, the beast is late out of paddington. The point is taken. If la fontaine’s elk would spurn tom jones the engine must be our head, the dining car our oesophagus, the guard’s van our left lung, the cattle truck our shins, the first-class compartment the piece of skin at the nape of the neck and the level crossing an electric elk called simon. The clarity is devastating. But where is the ambiguity? It’s over there in a box. Shunt is saying the 8.15 from gillingham when in reality he means the 8.13 from gillingham. The train is the same only the time is altered. Ecce homo, ergo elk. La fontaine knew his sister and knew her bloody well. The point is taken, the beast is moulting, the fluff gets up your nose. The illusion is complete; it is reality, the reality is illusion and the ambiguity is the only truth. But is the truth, as hitchcock observes, in the box? No there isn’t room, the ambiguity has put on weight. The point is taken, the elk is dead, the beast stops at swindon, chabrol stops at nothing, i’m having treatment and la fontaine can get knotted._ > > stranger ‘gavin millarrrrrrrrrr’ ---
**Author:** ![SoulFrost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f07891/32.png) [@SoulFrost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SoulFrost)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2010, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-im-new-here-carol-is-the-name/536534/45 "2010-04-19T16:27:56Z")
> [@carol\_nistri](#): > > Move the thread to wherever it suits the board,it doesnt matter to me. (Space Space in consideration for old eyes). Thank you. > [@](#): > > I didnt know this was a board in which to honor the beloved Cecil whoever he is. I was flipping thru some searches when I came across an article he wrote. **Cecil** writes articles. Every one of them are open for discussion and debate (except for the one on merkins… that one’s a done deal.) > [@](#): > > Now is there anyone here that thinks this is just natural that it comes under the heading of range death? I take it from the replies there are and Im not sure what any of the rest of you have thought in the past… The way this usually works is for you to tell us what you think. If you have the evidence to back up your claims, it’s not unheard of for **Cecil** to update his column with the new findings. > [@](#): > > …but it seems that the subject has been tossed aside and Im curious as to why. I imagine that’s because we haven’t been presented with any compelling evidence to the contrary. > [@](#): > > The fact that Marley is dead is indisputable. I’m glad that you got better, **Marley**. Being indisputably dead can really louse up your whole weekend. > [@](#): > > The animal is found dead but the rancher knows when an animal dies of lighting strike,or black leg,or any number of reasons. In the case of actual cattle mutilations the rancher inspects the animal ever wary of anything but the usual causes for the death of an animal that costs him hundreds of dollars,btw,not all range cows are insured.Not any rancher can walk into his friendly insurance company and tell them hes got an animal that died by some strange cause,the insurer will quickly point out that the insurance doesnt cover the animal. You haven’t yet put forward your own ideas about what causes cattle mutilations. You’ve asked a bunch of questions, made some vague references to the government, and gave us a charming anecdote about what some lady told you, but you haven’t said what _you_ think. > [@](#): > > Ok,is anyone interested in this or am I wasting my time? Until you come up with some sort of evidence… no, an argument would do… wait, even a position would suffice… then yeah, you’re pretty much wasting everybody’s time. ---
**Author:** ![Superfluous\_Parentheses](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8edcca/32.png) [@Superfluous\_Parentheses](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superfluous_Parentheses)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2010, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-im-new-here-carol-is-the-name/536534/46 "2010-04-19T16:33:22Z")
Carol, don’t insinuate, tell us what you believe. And don’t tell us you don’t know what to believe. That’s the agnostic cop-out; you know it’s all bullshit but you pretend you’re all intelligent and open minded by not discarding your baseless fantasies. ---
**Author:** ![Skammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skammer/32/143_2.png) [@Skammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skammer)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2010, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-im-new-here-carol-is-the-name/536534/47 "2010-04-19T16:44:22Z")
> [@carol\_nistri](#): > > Now is there anyone here that thinks this is just natural that it comes under the heading of range death? _raises hand_ I think that’s more likely than a government conspiracy, but maybe I’m a little too trusting. ---
**Author:** ![Superfluous\_Parentheses](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8edcca/32.png) [@Superfluous\_Parentheses](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superfluous_Parentheses)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2010, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-im-new-here-carol-is-the-name/536534/48 "2010-04-19T16:53:38Z")
> [@Skammer](#): > > _raises hand_ I think that’s more likely than a government conspiracy, but maybe I’m a little too trusting. I think _aliens_ are a more likely an explanation than a government conspiracy. But plain and simple earth-based wildlife would probably rank highest. I note that nobody’s supplied any real description of the problem or how widespread it is either. ---
**Author:** ![SoulFrost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f07891/32.png) [@SoulFrost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SoulFrost)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2010, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-im-new-here-carol-is-the-name/536534/49 "2010-04-19T17:03:56Z")
> [@Superfluous\_Parentheses](#): > > I think _aliens_ are a more likely an explanation than a government conspiracy. But plain and simple earth-based wildlife would probably rank highest. I note that nobody’s supplied any real description of the problem or how widespread it is either. Maybe the government isn’t testing the cattle at all. Instead, they’re testing their new alien-hybrid wildlife to see what efficient killers they are. Laser carp were just the first… now we’re seeing scalpel-toothed cats roaming wild. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2010, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-im-new-here-carol-is-the-name/536534/50 "2010-04-19T17:31:09Z")
If you look at the veterinary history of cattle that wind up mutilated, there is one common factor that you will see. They have all been vaccinated. Vaccines cause cattle mutilation. And autism. ---
**Author:** ![Dallas\_Jones](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dallas_jones/32/3277_2.png) [@Dallas\_Jones](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dallas_Jones)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2010, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-im-new-here-carol-is-the-name/536534/51 "2010-04-19T17:41:59Z")
“It is useless to note that insects and animals often devour the vulnerable mucous membranes and the softer parts of dead animals such as the genitalia, instead of trying to burrow through the cowhide. It is pointless to note that incisions to a carcass by the teeth of predators or scavengers often resemble knife cuts. It is pointless to note that bloating often leads to skin splitting in straight lines resembling incision and exposing internal organs.” From here: [http://www.skepdic.com/cattle.html](http://www.skepdic.com/cattle.html) And a link about the Rommel reports: [http://www.parascope.com/articles/0597/mute2.htm](http://www.parascope.com/articles/0597/mute2.htm) “the rough jagged nature of the incisions together with the evidence at the scene clearly indicates that the carcass was damaged by predators and/or scavengers.” He goes on to say that “I have found no credible source who differs from this finding, nor has one piece of hard evidence been presented or uncovered that would cause me to alter this conclusion.” There just aren’t any instances of the supposed phenomenom of “cattle mutilation” that cannot be explained by the lack of knowledge on the part of the reporting persons about what they are looking at. ---
**Author:** ![carol\_nistri](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/edb3f5/32.png) [@carol\_nistri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carol_nistri)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2010, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-im-new-here-carol-is-the-name/536534/52 "2010-04-19T17:51:42Z")
> [@ghardester](#): > > “It is useless to note that insects and animals often devour the vulnerable mucous membranes and the softer parts of dead animals such as the genitalia, instead of trying to burrow through the cowhide. It is pointless to note that incisions to a carcass by the teeth of predators or scavengers often resemble knife cuts. It is pointless to note that bloating often leads to skin splitting in straight lines resembling incision and exposing internal organs.” > > From here: [cattle mutiliation - The Skeptic's Dictionary - Skepdic.com](http://www.skepdic.com/cattle.html) > > And a link about the Rommel reports: [http://www.parascope.com/articles/0597/mute2.htm](http://www.parascope.com/articles/0597/mute2.htm) > > “the rough jagged nature of the incisions together with the evidence at the scene clearly indicates that the carcass was damaged by predators and/or scavengers.” He goes on to say that “I have found no credible source who differs from this finding, nor has one piece of hard evidence been presented or uncovered that would cause me to alter this conclusion.” > > There just aren’t any instances of the supposed phenomenom of “cattle mutilation” that cannot be explained by the lack of knowledge on the part of the reporting persons about what they are looking at. The ranchers that tend these animals from birth to market would beg to differ with you Guardster.To think Ken Rhommel thought he would have to point out simple information such as you posted to me that make their livlihood by raising these animals,just a tad preposterous dont you think? These ranchers are not one ranch nor one man but rather many ranchers from the southeast to the west that have experienced somthing that is actually outside their vast accumulation of knowledge,some of these ranchers are forth fifth even sixth generations of men that have raised cattle for decades upon decades. So that puny information doesnt hack it.Btw,notice that Ken Rhommel never names the predator,just the name of Doug and Dave are enough to satisfy the non curious mind. ---
**Author:** ![carol\_nistri](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/edb3f5/32.png) [@carol\_nistri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carol_nistri)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2010, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-im-new-here-carol-is-the-name/536534/53 "2010-04-19T18:05:32Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > Do you know why nobody bothers to humor people like you, **carol**? It’s because we know that people like you won’t accept ANY explanation other than the one you made up in your head or heard from someone who made it up in his head. You and yours have convinced yourselves that you’re right and won’t hear another idea about it. Well thats not quite true Jayjay. Someone asked if I had even bothered to read Ken Rhommel’s report,I had’nt.One night we were going to the Casino and I printed out that report parked myself under a tree in the front lawn and went over that report waiting for my husband to get ready. I skipped the pictures as they were of such poor quality being black & white and really muddy looking. Instead I wanted to see just what those animals died from,what was the actual cause of death. I looked thru the entire report and to my amazement read that Ken Rhommel never bothered to have any of the fifteen animals he was given to inspect autopsied. I had zero interest in the subject,not only had I not made up my mind the entire subject was so new to me the pictures were shocking. But I read and re-read what Ken Rhommel had to say and it occured to me that if these animals actually did die as simply as Rhommel suggested the Ranchers themselves would have recognized it instantly. Now before one of you types a post saying the ranchers themselves are doing it for insurance money,think it thru before you post that please. ---
**Author:** ![SoulFrost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f07891/32.png) [@SoulFrost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SoulFrost)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2010, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-im-new-here-carol-is-the-name/536534/54 "2010-04-19T18:09:45Z")
> [@carol\_nistri](#): > > Well thats not quite true Jayjay. Someone asked if I had even bothered to read Ken Rhommel’s report,I had’nt.One night we were going to the Casino and I printed out that report parked myself under a tree in the front lawn and went over that report waiting for my husband to get ready. I skipped the pictures as they were of such poor quality being black & white and really muddy looking. Instead I wanted to see just what those animals died from,what was the actual cause of death. I looked thru the entire report and to my amazement read that Ken Rhommel never bothered to have any of the fifteen animals he was given to inspect autopsied. I had zero interest in the subject,not only had I not made up my mind the entire subject was so new to me the pictures were shocking. But I read and re-read what Ken Rhommel had to say and it occured to me that if these animals actually did die as simply as Rhommel suggested the Ranchers themselves would have recognized it instantly. Now before one of you types a post saying the ranchers themselves are doing it for insurance money,think it thru before you post that please. I’ve lived on a ranch in Texas for most of my life. Whenever mutilations happen, the fellows all stand around and talk about how they’ve never seen anything like it–then we go out and shoot the coyote, the big cat, or the hog (yes, _hogs_) that did the deed. Oddly enough, the cow killing stops afterward. ---
**Author:** ![freckafree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/freckafree/32/3050_2.png) [@freckafree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/freckafree)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2010, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-im-new-here-carol-is-the-name/536534/55 "2010-04-19T18:14:23Z")
[The truth, revealed.](http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/477843ec1b9b.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![carol\_nistri](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/edb3f5/32.png) [@carol\_nistri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carol_nistri)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2010, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-im-new-here-carol-is-the-name/536534/56 "2010-04-19T18:20:12Z")
Cripes a tough crowd huh,ok Im tough too. Now someone asked what I thought was going on. All I do know is Im with the ranchers on this one.You cant just jump to conclusions on something like this youve really got to eliminate what your being told. For instance how many of you jumped on the word Predator when you saw it,ahh that explains it ,it was predators,turns over and goes to sleep. But whoever it was and Id have to go back up to check the name suggested that the predator removes the head,thats not true.Did you picture the “Predator” removing the head and trotting off with it? If you can really do that in your minds eye Id sure like to have you Name the Predator. Ken Rhommel is very careful not to do any such thing. He just throws out the word Predator. You cant say bear or wolves if there are no bears or wolves in the area. There are no footprints either. The animals is not chased down by a pack of anything and killed,very very few predators here in North America have that kind of capability.Each and every suggestion should be followed thru on. You cant just accept that insect made this hole or that wound,youve got to be told the name of the insect the time of year and if that insect even lives in the area. Theres so much gobbledeegook that weve been fed that sounds like a professional analysis that weve allowed the wool to be yanked down. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2010, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-im-new-here-carol-is-the-name/536534/57 "2010-04-19T18:23:42Z")
Remember, parents, there is a reason you shouldn’t store the Rice Crispies next to the rat poison. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2010, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-im-new-here-carol-is-the-name/536534/58 "2010-04-19T18:24:10Z")
> [@carol\_nistri](#): > > Cripes a tough crowd huh,ok Im tough too. It’s probably a more skeptical audience than you are used to, yes. > [@](#): > > You cant just jump to conclusions on something like this Then you should probably stop jumping past the conclusion that predators and decay are responsible. ---
**Author:** ![carol\_nistri](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/edb3f5/32.png) [@carol\_nistri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carol_nistri)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2010, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-im-new-here-carol-is-the-name/536534/59 "2010-04-19T18:44:29Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > It’s probably a more skeptical audience than you are used to, yes. > Then you should probably stop jumping past the conclusion that predators and decay are responsible. um,huh? ---
**Author:** ![meanoldman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@meanoldman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/meanoldman)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2010, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-im-new-here-carol-is-the-name/536534/60 "2010-04-19T18:51:36Z")
Delete d my comments due to snark [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-im-new-here-carol-is-the-name/536534.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-im-new-here-carol-is-the-name/536534.md?page=4)