# Ok,Im new here,Carol is the name **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [April 18, 2010, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-im-new-here-carol-is-the-name/536534 "2010-04-18T15:34:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![SoulFrost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f07891/32.png) [@SoulFrost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SoulFrost)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2010, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-im-new-here-carol-is-the-name/536534/101 "2010-04-20T18:33:01Z")
> [@carol\_nistri](#): > > Ok you guys,youve had your fun now can we settle down,I didnt know this wasnt a board for the um,unconventional. I DONT think cattle mutilations are the work of aliens. And why aliens is even mentioned in this thread is your doing,not mine. Btw and FYI John Mack of Harvard,or the late John Mack I should say insisted that the so called abductees be tested for mental illness before accepting them into his program. But this thread is not about Aliens,its about looking at something like Cattle Mutes only looking at them without having made up your minds,btw how the heck you guys made up your mind as you did is a bit of a puzzlement.I already pointed out Predator and the use of the word to cover a whole host of non-existant animals.Oh,you dont think thats right,I am. Just remember this is NORTH america,not africa.List if only in your own mind the types of predators present here in North America and it will get you thinking.Once the light comes on with this subject its nearly blinding. It’s fine to post unconventional ideas here, but they need to be unconventional ideas with evidence supporting them. Most of the people here _do_ have their minds made up–the simplest explanation is usually the correct one, unless there is evidence to the contrary. You’ve presented no evidence. You haven’t even presented an argument yet. We’re what? a hundred posts into this thread and you still haven’t stated your position on cattle mutilations. **carol nistri** –what causes cattle mutilations? ---
**Author:** ![SoulFrost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f07891/32.png) [@SoulFrost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SoulFrost)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2010, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-im-new-here-carol-is-the-name/536534/102 "2010-04-20T18:35:07Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Animals that I can image attacking cattle would include large cats like cougars, and dogs including coyotes and wolves. We also do have some very large birds of prey in North America. Not forgetting, of course, drunken rednecks. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2010, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-im-new-here-carol-is-the-name/536534/103 "2010-04-20T18:48:47Z")
> [@SoulFrost](#): > > Not forgetting, of course, drunken rednecks. That’s redundant, isn’t it? ---
**Author:** ![SoulFrost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f07891/32.png) [@SoulFrost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SoulFrost)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2010, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-im-new-here-carol-is-the-name/536534/104 "2010-04-20T18:52:39Z")
Sheeeeeut! Lemme show you boys this thing I call _cow tippin’_. Johnny Mac, hand me that chainsaw… ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2010, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-im-new-here-carol-is-the-name/536534/105 "2010-04-20T18:53:29Z")
The most reasonable explanation is that cattle die of natural causes and are scavenged, and then people with limited experience (including ranchers - they are not experts in cattle deaths) think that the cattle “look funny”. One can simply accept the most reasonable explanation about things. One does not have to make up complicated scenarios to explain things that happen around us all the time naturally. Here’s something to help you understand: The other day I saw holes in my lawn. They were not there the day before. I am an expert in my lawn - I have tended it and mowed it for years. Never seen holes like this before. A local pest control expert told me that it’s probable that a raccoon dug up areas looking for beetle grubs or the like. This is a reasonable explanation. I don’t need to come up with complex theories involving a conspiracy of my neighbors and a local lawn care company… or aliens. Or someone taking radiation samples from my lawn. I don’t think the pest control guy is part of the conspiracy. I’ll just go with the simple explanation. Even though I’m not examining every single possible bizarre and complex explanation for the “lawn hole mystery” - It does not mean that I’m close minded. It means that I believe Occam’s Razor applies here. The simplest explanation is probably correct. I also believe that an expert (pest control guy) is probably right, as he has lots of experience in this area. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2010, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-im-new-here-carol-is-the-name/536534/106 "2010-04-20T19:11:39Z")
> [@carol\_nistri](#): > > Cattle Mutes . You could help your cause (IMO) by brushing up on your grammar and dropping the odd abbreviation. ---
**Author:** ![toodlepip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/97f17d/32.png) [@toodlepip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/toodlepip)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2010, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-im-new-here-carol-is-the-name/536534/107 "2010-04-20T20:06:24Z")
> [@the lone cashew](#): > > Is this the wrong time to talk about the value of quality leather punching? (the Swiss would not have included the leather punch on the knife if it weren’t uber important.) Also, you can play a game of tic-tac-toe on a real live cow with a good leather punch. ( true, a roofing nail works better but this post is to promote the leather punch) > > This is not mutilation. Nor cruelty. (the cattle don’t care, their hides are tough!) It’s an up and coming sport. (it should take off.. very soon) **cashew** , does your knife also have one of those thingies for picking stones out of horses’ hooves? ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2010, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-im-new-here-carol-is-the-name/536534/108 "2010-04-20T23:12:14Z")
> [@carol\_nistri](#): > > Ok you guys,youve had your fun now can we settle down,I didnt know this wasnt a board for the um,unconventional. I DONT think cattle mutilations are the work of aliens. And why aliens is even mentioned in this thread is your doing,not mine. Btw and FYI John Mack of Harvard,or the late John Mack I should say insisted that the so called abductees be tested for mental illness before accepting them into his program. But this thread is not about Aliens,its about looking at something like Cattle Mutes only looking at them without having made up your minds,btw how the heck you guys made up your mind as you did is a bit of a puzzlement.I already pointed out Predator and the use of the word to cover a whole host of non-existant animals.Oh,you dont think thats right,I am. Just remember this is NORTH america,not africa.List if only in your own mind the types of predators present here in North America and it will get you thinking.Once the light comes on with this subject its nearly blinding. O-kayyyy. I give up. ---
**Author:** ![EvilTOJ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee59a6/32.png) [@EvilTOJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EvilTOJ)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2010, 10:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-im-new-here-carol-is-the-name/536534/109 "2010-04-21T10:27:38Z")
Is a cattle mute more like a malamute, only fluffier? ---
**Author:** ![carol\_nistri](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/edb3f5/32.png) [@carol\_nistri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carol_nistri)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2010, 11:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-im-new-here-carol-is-the-name/536534/110 "2010-04-21T11:36:40Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > I could say the same to you. 😉 > What non-existant animals are you talking about? [I know this isn’t what you mean, but I half-wonder if you think the cattle are being mutilated by unicorns.] > Animals that I can image attacking cattle would include large cats like cougars, and dogs including coyotes and wolves. We also do have some very large birds of prey in North America. Ah Ha! A live one..ok Marley23,you mentioned Cougars,Dogs,Coyotes and wolves.Each and every one of those animals can be identified in or around a kill by the method and the tracks they leave at the sight.With cattle mutes there are no such clues.Signs of how the animals died are nonexistant.Thats what got all of this started in the first place. A rancher finds a dead animal walks over to it and the first thing hes got to do is determine that the animal died of something that doest threaten the rest of the herd. When he comes across a cattle mutilation the first thing he notices is that the anus has been cored,the udder has been removed,sometimes the skin around the face and neck have been removed,he knows thru years of experience that what hes seeing isnt normal. Are ya with me so far? ---
**Author:** ![carol\_nistri](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/edb3f5/32.png) [@carol\_nistri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carol_nistri)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2010, 11:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-im-new-here-carol-is-the-name/536534/111 "2010-04-21T11:47:52Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > The most reasonable explanation is that cattle die of natural causes and are scavenged, and then people with limited experience (including ranchers - they are not experts in cattle deaths) think that the cattle “look funny”. > > One can simply accept the most reasonable explanation about things. One does not have to make up complicated scenarios to explain things that happen around us all the time naturally. > > Here’s something to help you understand: > > The other day I saw holes in my lawn. They were not there the day before. I am an expert in my lawn - I have tended it and mowed it for years. Never seen holes like this before. A local pest control expert told me that it’s probable that a raccoon dug up areas looking for beetle grubs or the like. This is a reasonable explanation. I don’t need to come up with complex theories involving a conspiracy of my neighbors and a local lawn care company… or aliens. Or someone taking radiation samples from my lawn. I don’t think the pest control guy is part of the conspiracy. I’ll just go with the simple explanation. > > Even though I’m not examining every single possible bizarre and complex explanation for the “lawn hole mystery” - It does not mean that I’m close minded. It means that I believe Occam’s Razor applies here. The simplest explanation is probably correct. I also believe that an expert (pest control guy) is probably right, as he has lots of experience in this area. While mulling over a simple explanation for those holes in your lawn think Skunk. That business of reasonable explanations has been gone over many times.The question of just what killed the aniamal remains unanswed. Unless the predators your imagining can float they leave tracks in and around the animal their feeding on. If predation is the reason for the animals death of course there would be tracks,the teeth marks of the feeding animal would be present.In both cases there not. ---
**Author:** ![carol\_nistri](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/edb3f5/32.png) [@carol\_nistri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carol_nistri)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2010, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-im-new-here-carol-is-the-name/536534/112 "2010-04-21T19:30:33Z")
> [@SoulFrost](#): > > It’s fine to post unconventional ideas here, but they need to be unconventional ideas with evidence supporting them. Most of the people here _do_ have their minds made up–the simplest explanation is usually the correct one, unless there is evidence to the contrary. > > You’ve presented no evidence. > > You haven’t even presented an argument yet. > > We’re what? a hundred posts into this thread and you still haven’t stated your position on cattle mutilations. > > **carol nistri** –what causes cattle mutilations? The whole idea is to try to get people thinking differently then we do,thats all.Sure I can come out and say what I think but Im telling you in stages that this being natural at all just doesnt cut it. The simple explanation is wrong.And its caused by gross laziness. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2010, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-im-new-here-carol-is-the-name/536534/113 "2010-04-21T20:08:48Z")
> [@carol\_nistri](#): > > While mulling over a simple explanation for those holes in your lawn think Skunk. Course, the fact that there are no skunks around here should probably not enter into my thinking. Neither should I discount hippos, emus or a troupe of red-faced lemurs. I’m going to stick with the simplest explanation, as I have a limited amount of time. > [@carol\_nistri](#): > > That business of reasonable explanations has been gone over many times.The question of just what killed the aniamal remains unanswed. Unless the predators your imagining can float they leave tracks in and around the animal their feeding on. If predation is the reason for the animals death of course there would be tracks,the teeth marks of the feeding animal would be present.In both cases there not. Of course, it has been answered, you just don’t like the answer. Many animals do not leave tracks on hard, dry ground. Predators don’t always leave obvious “teeth marks”, especially after the wound is old, and has been altered by the elements, or other small critters (already mentioned above). People who are familiar with animal death in the wild are quite comfortable with the predator explanation. Those who are more credulous would have us believe in an explanation that is very complex, mysterious, unproven, and with very limited evidence. ---
**Author:** ![SoulFrost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f07891/32.png) [@SoulFrost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SoulFrost)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2010, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-im-new-here-carol-is-the-name/536534/114 "2010-04-21T20:38:26Z")
> [@carol\_nistri](#): > > The whole idea is to try to get people thinking differently then we do,thats all.Sure I can come out and say what I think but Im telling you in stages that this being natural at all just doesnt cut it. The simple explanation is wrong.And its caused by gross laziness. Well, if you’re not going to present an argument, then I’m just going to have to call Troll. Been nice chatting with you. ---
**Author:** ![llcoolbj77](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/eb9ed0/32.png) [@llcoolbj77](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/llcoolbj77)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2010, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-im-new-here-carol-is-the-name/536534/115 "2010-04-21T20:40:36Z")
> [@carol\_nistri](#): > > Sure I can come out and say what I think but Im telling you in stages that this being natural at all just doesnt cut it. The simple explanation is wrong. And its caused by gross laziness. Oh dear… you’re telling us in stages? I’ve been reading through this thead periodically for the last two days. How much longer do I have to wait for you to tell me what your hypothesis is? And what is caused by gross laziness? The simple explanation is _caused_ by gross laziness? The only gross laziness in this thread is your writing style. And your insistence in abbreviating the word mutilations. Seriously. Let’s pretend we have reached the next stage… **carol nistri** , what do you believe is causing cattle mutilations??? ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2010, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-im-new-here-carol-is-the-name/536534/116 "2010-04-21T20:43:26Z")
> [@SoulFrost](#): > > Well, if you’re not going to present an argument, then I’m just going to have to call Troll. > > Been nice chatting with you. Please do not accuse other posters of trolling outside of the Pit. [/Moderating] ---
**Author:** ![AuntiePam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@AuntiePam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AuntiePam)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2010, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-im-new-here-carol-is-the-name/536534/117 "2010-04-21T20:46:04Z")
> [@llcoolbj77](#): > > Oh dear… you’re telling us in stages? I’ve been reading through this thead periodically for the last two days. How much longer do I have to wait for you to tell me what your hypothesis is? Or why she cares. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2010, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-im-new-here-carol-is-the-name/536534/118 "2010-04-21T20:53:52Z")
> [@SoulFrost](#): > > Well, if you’re not going to present an argument, then I’m just going to have to call Troll. > > Been nice chatting with you. That’s not trolling, although it’s an annoying tactic. In any case you’re not allowed to call people trolls unless you’re posting in the BBQ Pit. ---
**Author:** ![SoulFrost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f07891/32.png) [@SoulFrost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SoulFrost)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2010, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-im-new-here-carol-is-the-name/536534/119 "2010-04-21T21:01:22Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > That’s not trolling, although it’s an annoying tactic. In any case you’re not allowed to call people trolls unless you’re posting in the BBQ Pit. Yes, actually, it is. Posters here have been admonished, warned, maybe even banned for using similar tactics. But, you all are right… I should’ve just pitted her, instead. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2010, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-im-new-here-carol-is-the-name/536534/120 "2010-04-21T21:11:15Z")
> [@carol\_nistri](#): > > Each and every one of those animals can be identified in or around a kill by the method and the tracks they leave at the sight.With cattle mutes there are no such clues. How do we know there are no clues, and that the people who find the bodies don’t miss them or misinterpret them? Ken Rommel (who I’d never heard of before this thread, but his conclusions are more credible than your evasions) seems to think there are understandable signs. > [@](#): > > Signs of how the animals died are nonexistant.Thats what got all of this started in the first place. I thought this was started by people seeing dead, rotted cows and going “EEEEEEEW! Look at that!” And to prove my point… > [@](#): > > When he comes across a cattle mutilation the first thing he notices is that the anus has been cored,the udder has been removed,sometimes the skin around the face and neck have been removed Rommel’s explanations seem to cover this. > [@](#): > > he knows thru years of experience that what hes seeing isnt normal. Does he? When people come across something weird they can panic and do weird or irrational things. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-im-new-here-carol-is-the-name/536534.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-im-new-here-carol-is-the-name/536534.md?page=7)