# OK, I'm pretty sure this is a scam, but the details, the details... **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [January 23, 2004, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-im-pretty-sure-this-is-a-scam-but-the-details-the-details/225827 "2004-01-23T22:36:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 5\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2004, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-im-pretty-sure-this-is-a-scam-but-the-details-the-details/225827/1 "2004-01-23T22:36:38Z")
My sister has been sent an invitation to timeshare hell; she was tempted to go to the presentation because the promised ‘reward’ is cash (£150) - I’ll quote the entirety of the invitation text here: > [@](#): > > [sup]Front Cover[/sup] > Question… > What does a CASH promotion winner look like? > Inside Front Cover[/sup] > Congratulations > you are one of the lucky households who have been selected for our scratch and match promotion. > You simply scratch your card to reveal a valuable cash award from the list below and phone the claim line now. > TELEPHONE NOW ON [Local telephone number] > Calls are charged at local rates only. > In order to receive your award, you are required to attend an exhibition on the UK’s most exciting Canal and House Boat Holiday Scheme at [location, in Romsey, Hants, UK] (see overleaf for directions). The presentation will last for approximately 150 minutes and includes complimentary light refreshments while viewing the boating ans holiday options available through the club. > There are limited places available at the presentations, please call now to book your place and avoid disappointment. > You are under no obligation to buy or rent anything. > The cash award issued on the attached scratch card is a thankyou for your time and we hope you tell your friends and family what a great time you had with our sponsor. > Inside Rear Cover[/sup] > Just Like You… > Guaranteed > > Scratch your card to discover which of the following cash awards you can claim: > > 1. £10 > 2. £25 > 3. £50 > 4. 100 > 5. £150 > [A scratch card which, when played, reveals a value of £150 is attached] > As long as you fulfil the simple requirements of the promotion, you are GUARANTEED to receive your cash award (See overleaf for requirements) > So, to book your place and guarantee your cash, call the claim line now on; [number as above] > > \*Please be assured that our lines are not premium rate lines and that all calls are charged at BT rates. > Please note that there are limited spaces available to attend and collect the cash awards. The places are handed out on a first come first served basis. Should all the spaces available be taken before you call you will unfortunately be unable to claim the award. > Rear Cover[/sup] > How to find our sponsor, Clearwater sales. > [mundane directions - I’m not going to type them out] > GUARANTEE > This promotion is run by FSP (from Scratch Promotions) Ltd, Registered office 28 Alexandra Terrace, Exmouth, Devon, EX8 1BD, company number 4142196. The operations office for this promotion is based at our sponsor’s address. This enables FSP to ensure that alll those who attend for the required period and who fulfil all the promotional requirements receive the appropriate cash award as stated on their scratch card at the end of the seminar/presentation. In the unlikely event that cash should not be available a cheque payment would be offered as an alternative. Should this not be acceptable, FSP guarantees to send the relevant amount of cash by registered post or by bank transfer, whichever the preference. > > PROMOTION REQUIREMENTS > In order to qualify to take part in this promotion ‘YOU MUST’; Be a Home Owner aged between 25 and 70, Enjoy a combined income of £15,000 per annum. Attend with your partner, whether married or cohabiting and claim the cash award together aat the end of the presentation. You must allow 150 minutes of your time to enjoy the Canal and Houseboat holiday ownershoip scheme exhibition at the premises of our sponsor. You must have a pre-booked and confirmed appointment to attend. We kindly request that children below the age of 6 do not attend the exhibition. > EXCLUSIONS: Existing clients of Clearwater Sales, the sponsor, along with employees/agents (past and present) of either the sponsor or associated companies are not eligible to take part in this promotion. Members of the public who have attended a presentation with the sponsor within the last 18 months are also excluded. > > This promotion is limited to one scratch card per household. All cash awardsa are indeed cash which once collected and signed for at the end of our sponsors seminar/presentation, is the responsibility of the recipient. This promotion cannot be used alongside any other promotion being run by our sponsors or other marketers thereof. Phew! Now, I’m working on the following assumptions: A. It is going to be hard, hard sell - including all the usual underhand and dishonest tactics such as faking an argument with a superior, crying when the client refuses to sign etc… B. There’s no way that they’ll pay out any money. OK, but the details… the details… My guess is that they will conveniently not have cash available and they will write a rubber cheque, or never post the cash, or take your bank details (and your signature at the end of the ‘presentation’) and attempt to remove funds from your account. Any other ideas how this scam is likely to proceed? I Googled a little and the company is definitely suspect, being run by a man well known for serial bankruptcy and who has changed his name recently. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2004, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-im-pretty-sure-this-is-a-scam-but-the-details-the-details/225827/2 "2004-01-24T01:04:17Z")
I actually went to something like this (once) when I was in grad school and had plenty of time. They did pay out what they promised to. It was indeed a hard sell. More people came to the one I went to than they expected, so they let us go more easily than sometimes. Only your sister can say if sitting through 2 1/2 hours of hard sell is worth it. These people do it because it is the only way they can get people there and in their seats for that long. Notice that she and partner have to be there at the end to get the cash, which I bet isn’t going to be easy. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2004, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-im-pretty-sure-this-is-a-scam-but-the-details-the-details/225827/3 "2004-01-24T01:28:08Z")
Of course the two of them have to be there so that the deal can be signed and closed. they’re prepared to sit through it at fifty quid an hour, but obviously they don’t want to do it if there will be no payout. They won’t buy the timeshare regardless. The bit that makes me suspicious is: > [@](#): > > In the unlikely event that cash should not be available a cheque payment would be offered as an alternative. Should this not be acceptable, FSP guarantees to send the relevant amount of cash by registered post or by bank transfer, whichever the preference. How could there not be cash available? - they know exactly how many people are coming, because it has to be booked - it sounds like this is a ready-made stalling tactic. ---
**Author:** ![Krisfer\_the\_Cat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Krisfer\_the\_Cat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Krisfer_the_Cat)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2004, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-im-pretty-sure-this-is-a-scam-but-the-details-the-details/225827/4 "2004-01-24T22:08:06Z")
The one we went to was a hard sell as well. I finally just got up and walked out. I was furious at the guilt dished out to me because I didnt care to give 140$ a month to them for the honor of spending one day ( two days after something like three years of paying) in one of their hotel rooms and swimming in an overcrowded pool. ---
**Author:** ![norinew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/eb9ed0/32.png) [@norinew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/norinew)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2004, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-im-pretty-sure-this-is-a-scam-but-the-details-the-details/225827/5 "2004-01-25T02:04:55Z")
Hubby and I have gone to several of these (probably 6 or 7) to collect the prizes/cash, and all have paid out as promised. They are hard sells, but if you’re prepared in advance, it’s easy to knock down their arguments. The first thing we do (before we go) is to look for timeshares in that area on ebay. When the salesman gets to the part about how these timeshares can be sold at later dates, we’re careful to ask if all the benefits of ownership transfer when they’re sold. The answer is always yes. When we get to the cost part, we simply say “Oh, we’ve found all these nice ones for sale for so much less. If we were going to buy one at all, we’d buy it through ebay”. The last one we visited, they wanted $15,000 for us to use the place one week a year. Hubby said, “So, if I assume that 51 other couples are paying the same price, then that makes this a $750,000 condo. It was nice, but I didn’t see anything worth 3/4 of a million dollars”. The salesman said, “well, that covers other expenses, too, like the advertising costs to give you this free vacation” to which hubby replies “Your advertising costs are not my problem, nor should they be”. The salespeople never seem to know what to say to these particular objections. To us, it’s worth it to sit through these things, if what we were promised is valuable enough. As far as the part about “in the unlikely event that cash is not available. . .” I would ask if the cash is available before I sit through the sales pitch. If not, I would get up to leave, and say “call me when you’ve got cash”. They may magically “find” the cash, or maybe not, but at least time hasn’t been wasted.