# OK, I've seen The Avengers - open spoilers! **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 8, 2012, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-ive-seen-the-avengers-open-spoilers/621234 "2012-05-08T01:37:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 19
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2012, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-ive-seen-the-avengers-open-spoilers/621234/361 "2012-05-18T17:08:09Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > Wait wait wait. So if the Hulk is unkillable (as per posts on the last page), how did he kill the big mutant Hulk guy in _The Incredible Hulk_? I mean, they were both formed the same way, only the other other guy was even bigger and stronger. So how come HE can die? Because Hulk is strongest one of all. ---
**Author:** ![Push\_You\_Down](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/push_you_down/32/9095_2.png) [@Push\_You\_Down](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Push_You_Down)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2012, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-ive-seen-the-avengers-open-spoilers/621234/362 "2012-05-18T17:08:52Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > Wait wait wait. So if the Hulk is unkillable (as per posts on the last page), how did he kill the big mutant Hulk guy in _The Incredible Hulk_? I mean, they were both formed the same way, only the other other guy was even bigger and stronger. So how come HE can die? Don’t think of it as “unkillable.” I like to describe it like a health bar in a video game. You can damage him and lower that health bar but it constantly refills and it does so very very quickly. You’d have to do a lot of damage in short order to really do him harm and a TON of damage in one blow to kill him. Short of cosmic or mystical damage, nothing else is really going to be a danger to him. And regarding Abomination in the Incredible Hulk movie and why he can be killed–to steal a quote from Mad Men “It’s not Anne Margaret.” ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2012, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-ive-seen-the-avengers-open-spoilers/621234/363 "2012-05-18T17:09:30Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > Wait wait wait. So if the Hulk is unkillable (as per posts on the last page), how did he kill the big mutant Hulk guy in _The Incredible Hulk_? I mean, they were both formed the same way, only the other other guy was even bigger and stronger. So how come HE can die? The effects of gamma radiation on a human being are not uniform. In the comics, there have been several individuals who have been subjected to gamma radiation in efforts to create new hulks. While the end effect is always super-strong and super-tough, the actual results vary quite a bit, and none have turned out quite as powerful as the original. Apparently, the gamma mutation is affected somehow by the physiological (or perhaps psychological) makeup of the person being irradiated. ---
**Author:** ![Bakhesh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3da27b/32.png) [@Bakhesh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bakhesh)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2012, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-ive-seen-the-avengers-open-spoilers/621234/364 "2012-05-18T17:13:33Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > Wait wait wait. So if the Hulk is unkillable (as per posts on the last page), how did he kill the big mutant Hulk guy in _The Incredible Hulk_? I mean, they were both formed the same way, only the other other guy was even bigger and stronger. So how come HE can die? The Abomination didn’t die. He is still alive at the end > [@MegaBee](#): > > That’s correct. In the comics, Cap’s shield is an alloy of vibranium and an unknown metal (Dr. Myron McLain fell asleep during the alloying process and didn’t take good notes). It can’t be that difficult though, as at least two other people have created shields for Cap. When he renounced the Captain America identity, and became the Captain, he got Tony Stark to make him a silvery shield, but ended up giving it back when the two fell out over the Armor Wars. He then got T’Challa to make him a black one, which ended up being used by USAgent. I don’t know what happened to the Stark one. ---
**Author:** ![Bakhesh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3da27b/32.png) [@Bakhesh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bakhesh)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2012, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-ive-seen-the-avengers-open-spoilers/621234/365 "2012-05-18T17:17:40Z")
> [@cmkeller](#): > > Chronos: > > I don’t think so. It was broken during the Secret Wars by a Beyonder-powered Doctor Doom. I imagine that the other cosmic-level beings in the Marvel Universe could muster that kind of power. > > In addition, the Molecule Man has been able to disintegrate the shield (and re-create it as well). Yep, it was also shattered by a Gauntlet powered Thanos, and broken by The Serpent (Odin’s older brother) during Fear Itself ---
**Author:** ![Mollie\_Magill](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mollie_magill/32/20882_2.png) [@Mollie\_Magill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mollie_Magill)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2012, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-ive-seen-the-avengers-open-spoilers/621234/366 "2012-05-18T17:20:08Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > Wait wait wait. So if the Hulk is unkillable (as per posts on the last page), how did he kill the big mutant Hulk guy in _The Incredible Hulk_? I mean, they were both formed the same way, only the other other guy was even bigger and stronger. So how come HE can die? The Abomination didn’t die in _The Incredible Hulk_. He was incapacitated and taken into custody. According t a short subject extra on the Thor Blu-ray, The Counsel wanted to recruit him into the Avengers. Also, The Abomination _starts off_ stronger than The Hulk, but (unlike The Hulk) he doesn’t get any more powerful as he gets madder. “The madder Hulk gets, the stronger Hulk gets.” ---
**Author:** ![MegaBee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f0a364/32.png) [@MegaBee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MegaBee)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2012, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-ive-seen-the-avengers-open-spoilers/621234/367 "2012-05-18T17:27:19Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > Wakandan vibraniun or Savage Land vibranium? My comic geek cred is going to take a hit here but I can’t remember which it was or which is which at the moment. Wakandan vibranium. I meant to specify that. ---
**Author:** ![MegaBee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f0a364/32.png) [@MegaBee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MegaBee)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2012, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-ive-seen-the-avengers-open-spoilers/621234/368 "2012-05-18T17:32:52Z")
> [@Bakhesh](#): > > It can’t be that difficult though, as at least two other people have created shields for Cap. When he renounced the Captain America identity, and became the Captain, he got Tony Stark to make him a silvery shield, but ended up giving it back when the two fell out over the Armor Wars. He then got T’Challa to make him a black one, which ended up being used by USAgent. I don’t know what happened to the Stark one. Those substitute shields were made of materials inferior to the original, either steel, pure adamantium, or pure Wakandan vibranium. The original shield alloy has never been duplicated through conventional means. ---
**Author:** ![Bakhesh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3da27b/32.png) [@Bakhesh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bakhesh)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2012, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-ive-seen-the-avengers-open-spoilers/621234/369 "2012-05-18T17:38:03Z")
> [@MegaBee](#): > > Those substitute shields were made of materials inferior to the original, either steel, pure adamantium, or pure Wakandan vibranium. The original shield alloy has never been duplicated through conventional means. IIRC when Cap receives the silver shield, he comments on just how close to the original it is, so I don’t think it could be described as inferior ---
**Author:** ![gytalf2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ac91a4/32.png) [@gytalf2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gytalf2000)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2012, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-ive-seen-the-avengers-open-spoilers/621234/370 "2012-05-18T17:43:00Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Really, the pseudoscientific bit about Cap’s shield isn’t the absorbing of energy (which _any_ material can do), but the absorbing of momentum (which ultimately ends up violating most known conservation laws). But in a comic book movie, I can go with it. > > Also, for the scene where Thor drops the hammer on Cap: Per the comic canon, Thor’s hammer is awfully darn powerful, but Cap’s shield is an absolute: It _cannot_ be destroyed, it _cannot_ be smashed into his face, etc. If the Living Tribunal decided to smash the Earth between a pair of antimatter planets moving at hyperluminous speed, when all the dust (or rather, high-energy gamma rays) had settled, Cap’s shield (and Wolverine’s skeleton and a handful of other artifacts) would still be intact. No, it has been damaged, one time by none other than Thor himself. He was in his “King Thor” persona, and he possessed the Odin-Force, in addition to all his regular powers. He struck the shield with Mjolnir, and damaged it. Later on, when Cap and Thor had patched up their differences, Thor repaired the shield, again using the Odin-Force. The issue was : Avengers Vol. 3 #63 (March 2003) ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2012, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-ive-seen-the-avengers-open-spoilers/621234/371 "2012-05-18T17:48:44Z")
> [@Mollie\_Magill](#): > > The Abomination didn’t die in _The Incredible Hulk_. He was incapacitated and taken into custody. According t a short subject extra on the Thor Blu-ray, The Counsel wanted to recruit him into the Avengers. > > Also, The Abomination _starts off_ stronger than The Hulk, but (unlike The Hulk) he doesn’t get any more powerful as he gets madder. > > “The madder Hulk gets, the stronger Hulk gets.” Wait, so Abomination is alive? He can’t turn back human, right? So how are they keeping him contained? Will he show up again? ---
**Author:** ![MyFootsZZZ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/myfootszzz/32/12580_2.png) [@MyFootsZZZ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MyFootsZZZ)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2012, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-ive-seen-the-avengers-open-spoilers/621234/372 "2012-05-18T17:50:36Z")
Man, people really liked this movie… ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2012, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-ive-seen-the-avengers-open-spoilers/621234/373 "2012-05-18T17:55:05Z")
> [@Ethilrist](#): > > Because Hulk is strongest one of all. Grrr. Puny Internet thread! > [@Miller](#): > > The effects of gamma radiation on a human being are not uniform… How about on flowers?: [The Effect of Gamma Rays on Man-in-the-Moon Marigolds (film) - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Effect_of_Gamma_Rays_on_Man-in-the-Moon_Marigolds_(film)) ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2012, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-ive-seen-the-avengers-open-spoilers/621234/374 "2012-05-18T17:58:17Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > How about on flowers?: [The Effect of Gamma Rays on Man-in-the-Moon Marigolds (film) - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Effect_of_Gamma_Rays_on_Man-in-the-Moon_Marigolds_(film)) Marigolds strongest flower there is! ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2012, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-ive-seen-the-avengers-open-spoilers/621234/375 "2012-05-18T18:06:39Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > Wait, so Abomination is alive? He can’t turn back human, right? So how are they keeping him contained? Will he show up again? Just remember the first rule of thumb to survival in a Champions campaign: If you don’t have the body, it’s not dead. ---
**Author:** ![Mollie\_Magill](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mollie_magill/32/20882_2.png) [@Mollie\_Magill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mollie_Magill)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2012, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-ive-seen-the-avengers-open-spoilers/621234/376 "2012-05-18T18:07:59Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > Wait, so Abomination is alive? Yes, The Abomination is still alive. > [@](#): > > He can’t turn back human, right? So how are they keeping him contained? No, he’s stuck that way. I have no idea how their holding him in the Movie-verse. In the comics, he would have been held in [The Vault](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vault_%28comics%29), but it appears to have been destroyed. > [@](#): > > Will he show up again? If _The Incredible Hulk_ gets a sequel, I’m sure we will, probably as a minion of The Leader. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2012, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-ive-seen-the-avengers-open-spoilers/621234/377 "2012-05-18T18:21:13Z")
> [@Ethilrist](#): > > Just remember the first rule of thumb to survival in a Champions campaign: If you don’t have the body, it’s not dead. Not necessarily true for Mechanon. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2012, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-ive-seen-the-avengers-open-spoilers/621234/378 "2012-05-18T18:27:53Z")
> [@](#): > > Quoth **The Other Waldo Pepper** : > > In the movie, it seemed more like his shield was reflecting instead of absorbing. That’s even worse. Momentum is a vector, not a scalar like energy: It can’t be reflected. If a projectile bounces off of a barrier, it’s transferred momentum to the barrier. If the barrier is massive enough, this transferred momentum might not be noticeable, but that would take something far more massive than Cap’s shield. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2012, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-ive-seen-the-avengers-open-spoilers/621234/379 "2012-05-18T18:38:55Z")
> [@Mollie\_Magill](#): > > Yes, The Abomination is still alive. Isn’t that the guy on _Jersey Shore_? ---
**Author:** ![Bakhesh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3da27b/32.png) [@Bakhesh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bakhesh)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2012, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-ive-seen-the-avengers-open-spoilers/621234/380 "2012-05-19T02:05:17Z")
> [@MyFootsZZZ](#): > > Man, people really liked this movie… Looks like it… [http://www.deadline.com/2012/05/avengers-400m-in-14-days-sets-new-domestic-speed-record-6-all-time-highest-grossing-film/](http://www.deadline.com/2012/05/avengers-400m-in-14-days-sets-new-domestic-speed-record-6-all-time-highest-grossing-film/) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-ive-seen-the-avengers-open-spoilers/621234.md?page=18) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-ive-seen-the-avengers-open-spoilers/621234.md?page=20)