# OK Now I am asking in Great Debates... Whites cannot use the N word and blacks can. Racist idea? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 29, 2013, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-now-i-am-asking-in-great-debates-whites-cannot-use-the-n-word-and-blacks-can-racist-idea/662219 "2013-06-29T20:27:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2013, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-now-i-am-asking-in-great-debates-whites-cannot-use-the-n-word-and-blacks-can-racist-idea/662219/41 "2013-06-29T22:32:59Z")
Well said. ---
**Author:** ![epbrown01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7ba0ec/32.png) [@epbrown01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/epbrown01)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2013, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-now-i-am-asking-in-great-debates-whites-cannot-use-the-n-word-and-blacks-can-racist-idea/662219/42 "2013-06-29T22:36:19Z")
> [@ombre12](#): > > OK. I am white and can’t even think about of saying a word that a black man can use very casually, and can be used 100’s of times in movies and get a pass, a word that even newspapers and other media are scared shitless to use… > > Then How is this not racism? **At its worst?** At its worst? Seriously? Worse than the Holocaust? Worse than slavery? Pre-Civil Rights America? When you think about racism, the worst example that comes to mind is that you can’t fling about racial epithets with abandon? Yes, I can see how someone as culturally sensitive as you would get so upset! Have you considered marching on Washington? Where you’re confused is that the issue you’re discussing is not about race, it’s about culture - you’re not excluded because you’re white, you’re excluded because you aren’t part of the culture that’s co-opted the term for themselves, and that’s not representative of **all** black culture. The chief reason you shouldn’t use the word is the very reason you have to ask why you can’t: you’re clearly not familiar enough with the spectrum of black culture to use the word without offending someone. There are lots of blacks that don’t use the N-word, myself among them. There are similar schisms in gay culture, immigrant culture, and so on - some of the group use epithets among themselves that they’d find offensive coming from an outsider. You want to go to a gay bar and call everyone faggot or dyke? Go through Little Italy calling people Dagos? Not really. You’re not interested in any of the cultures or communities mentioned. You just want to be able to say bad words and not get called on it. Can’t help you with that. ---
**Author:** ![ombre12](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/d26b3c/32.png) [@ombre12](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ombre12)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2013, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-now-i-am-asking-in-great-debates-whites-cannot-use-the-n-word-and-blacks-can-racist-idea/662219/43 "2013-06-29T22:39:00Z")
Come on guys…if it is based on race, it is racist. So what is racist anyway? ---
**Author:** ![Giles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giles/32/60_2.png) [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2013, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-now-i-am-asking-in-great-debates-whites-cannot-use-the-n-word-and-blacks-can-racist-idea/662219/44 "2013-06-29T22:42:28Z")
> [@ombre12](#): > > Not it at all. 70 years old and mostly retired. > > It is at this time of life that you can finally speak the TRUTH…or such as you perceive it without repercussions. Or it might that you haven’t learned anything new over the last 50 years. (I’m 68, and I hope that I have.) ---
**Author:** ![epbrown01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7ba0ec/32.png) [@epbrown01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/epbrown01)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2013, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-now-i-am-asking-in-great-debates-whites-cannot-use-the-n-word-and-blacks-can-racist-idea/662219/45 "2013-06-29T22:44:15Z")
> [@ombre12](#): > > Come on guys…if it is based on race, it is racist. > > So what is racist anyway? Racism is a predeliction to assign behaviors and qualities to an entire group based solely on their ethnic background. For example, you’re racist. ---
**Author:** ![hansel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/6bbea6/32.png) [@hansel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hansel)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2013, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-now-i-am-asking-in-great-debates-whites-cannot-use-the-n-word-and-blacks-can-racist-idea/662219/46 "2013-06-29T22:45:40Z")
> [@ombre12](#): > > Come on guys…if it is based on race, it is racist. False. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2013, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-now-i-am-asking-in-great-debates-whites-cannot-use-the-n-word-and-blacks-can-racist-idea/662219/47 "2013-06-29T22:45:43Z")
Okay, it’s racist. Whatever. Are you suggesting we have to _do_ something about it, 'cause I wasn’t planning to. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2013, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-now-i-am-asking-in-great-debates-whites-cannot-use-the-n-word-and-blacks-can-racist-idea/662219/48 "2013-06-29T22:55:02Z")
> [@ombre12](#): > > It can’t be a racial slur if blacks use it commonly. If it is a slur for me, it should be a slur for them. Equally. > > If the N word disappeared from the English language as an anachronism, it would be fine with me. It it has to be distasteful for EVERYONE. Otherwise it is just a blatantly racist thing. This is silly and meaningless. At your age, are you really going to claim that you have NEVER been the member of a group that would use insults in a friendly way among each other that would upset them if an outsider used the same insults? You are unaware of marines referring to each other as “jarheads”? You have never heard a cop call his buddy “pig”? It is the same phenomenon. > [@ombre12](#): > > OK. I don’t agree with the arguments so far and probably am repeating myself. > > So you all define racism in a way I can understand.. Within the context of this posting. > > I am a little confused about what racism really is. > > So what is racism exactly and how does demanding one member of a race be excluded from using common words from another race NOT racism? I doubt that you have even paid any attention to the arguments presented thus far. Regardless what you do or do not think “racism” might be, you seem to be much more hung up taboos against your behavior than you are interested in an explanation of what is actually happening. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2013, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-now-i-am-asking-in-great-debates-whites-cannot-use-the-n-word-and-blacks-can-racist-idea/662219/49 "2013-06-29T22:57:08Z")
> [@ombre12](#): > > Come on guys…if it is based on race, it is racist. By that definition, referring to yourself as white is racist. > [@](#): > > So what is racist anyway? [Merriam Webster:](http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/racism) > [@](#): > > rac·ism noun \ˈrā-ˌsi-zəm also -ˌshi-\ > > Definition of RACISM > > 1: a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race > > 2: racial prejudice or discrimination Whites who refer to black people as “niggers” generally use it to indicate their own superiority to black people. This is racist. Blacks who refer to other black people or themselves as “niggers” generally do not use it to indicate that they are inferior (or superior) to white people. This use is not racist. I hope this helps. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2013, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-now-i-am-asking-in-great-debates-whites-cannot-use-the-n-word-and-blacks-can-racist-idea/662219/50 "2013-06-29T22:59:09Z")
> [@ombre12](#): > > Come on guys…if it is based on race, it is racist. > > So what is racist anyway? First error: it is not based on race. It is a universal human phenomenon among groups that happens, in this particular instance, to use perceived race as the markers of in-group and out-group participation, but it is not based on race. ---
**Author:** ![ombre12](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/d26b3c/32.png) [@ombre12](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ombre12)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2013, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-now-i-am-asking-in-great-debates-whites-cannot-use-the-n-word-and-blacks-can-racist-idea/662219/51 "2013-06-29T22:59:10Z")
> [@epbrown01](#): > > Racism is a predeliction to assign behaviors and qualities to an entire group based solely on their ethnic background. For example, you’re racist. No more racist than those who deny me by various punishments, their right to use certain words ad nauseum that I would not dare to use due to repercussions. We are talking about racism here. Who is the more racist? Me…who never uses the N word. Or who wants to prohibit me from using the N word? I seriously dislike the idea of a thought police. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2013, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-now-i-am-asking-in-great-debates-whites-cannot-use-the-n-word-and-blacks-can-racist-idea/662219/52 "2013-06-29T23:01:24Z")
> [@ombre12](#): > > I seriously dislike the idea of a thought police. And you should probably know that we have tracked down your location by your IP address and have already dispatched two large members of the thought police to that location as we speak, just for starting this thread. ---
**Author:** ![epbrown01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7ba0ec/32.png) [@epbrown01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/epbrown01)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2013, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-now-i-am-asking-in-great-debates-whites-cannot-use-the-n-word-and-blacks-can-racist-idea/662219/53 "2013-06-29T23:01:53Z")
> [@ombre12](#): > > Who is the more racist? Me…who never uses the N word. Or who wants to prohibit me from using the N word? You. By a huge margin. For completely obvious reasons. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2013, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-now-i-am-asking-in-great-debates-whites-cannot-use-the-n-word-and-blacks-can-racist-idea/662219/54 "2013-06-29T23:03:52Z")
I thought at age 70, you didn’t have to care any more about thought police. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2013, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-now-i-am-asking-in-great-debates-whites-cannot-use-the-n-word-and-blacks-can-racist-idea/662219/55 "2013-06-29T23:04:41Z")
> [@epbrown01](#): > > You. By a huge margin. For completely obvious reasons. I suspect that this thread was not prompted by a mere desire to be informed, but let us not begin calling posters “racist” or (implying that they are racist). Let’s keep the discussion about the language and not the posters. [/Moderating] ---
**Author:** ![ombre12](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/d26b3c/32.png) [@ombre12](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ombre12)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2013, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-now-i-am-asking-in-great-debates-whites-cannot-use-the-n-word-and-blacks-can-racist-idea/662219/56 "2013-06-29T23:08:07Z")
I am the least racist person you may ever know. I just dislike unfairness. ---
**Author:** ![Ferret\_Herder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e47774/32.png) [@Ferret\_Herder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferret_Herder)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2013, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-now-i-am-asking-in-great-debates-whites-cannot-use-the-n-word-and-blacks-can-racist-idea/662219/57 "2013-06-29T23:08:34Z")
> [@ombre12](#): > > We are talking about racism here. Who is the more racist? Me…who never uses the N word. Or who wants to prohibit me from using the N word? > > I seriously dislike the idea of a thought police. You can think whatever you like. Doesn’t mean that you’re allowed to express yourself without other people judging you based on that, no matter who you are. Oh, and you still haven’t addressed why black people being able to say “nigger” with fewer repercussions is worse than ethnic cleansing, lynching, or the Holocaust. ---
**Author:** ![epbrown01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7ba0ec/32.png) [@epbrown01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/epbrown01)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2013, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-now-i-am-asking-in-great-debates-whites-cannot-use-the-n-word-and-blacks-can-racist-idea/662219/58 "2013-06-29T23:10:14Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > Let’s keep the discussion about the language and not the posters. I’d recommend that the OP amend his conjectures to say “what practice is more racist” rather than “who is more racist” if that’s the case. As stated, his comments tar an entire community (which is pretty much his goal, I suspect, but in the interest of keeping it civil…). ---
**Author:** ![WarmNPrickly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/d78d45/32.png) [@WarmNPrickly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WarmNPrickly)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2013, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-now-i-am-asking-in-great-debates-whites-cannot-use-the-n-word-and-blacks-can-racist-idea/662219/59 "2013-06-29T23:12:27Z")
> [@ombre12](#): > > I seriously dislike the idea of a thought police. There is not thought police. You are free to use whatever words you like and no one will lawfully punish you. You may find that the only people interested in listening are wearing white hoods, but they are also free to dress how they wish in America. I personally find use of the word “nigger” to be distasteful for all groups of people, but some disagree and they get an audience that is fine with their use of it. It’s a free market. ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2013, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-now-i-am-asking-in-great-debates-whites-cannot-use-the-n-word-and-blacks-can-racist-idea/662219/60 "2013-06-29T23:12:38Z")
**ombre** , did you not already read my reply to you in the other thread? I paste it below. I was hoping to see what kind of response you might have for it. * * * I don’t know anything about you guys physically, but let’s say I was overweight. (I am, actually, but anyway…) And let’s say I was called “Fattie” by the kids at school. I don’t like being called Fattie. It makes me cry. It makes me dread going to school. But I have a friend at school who is also overweight. One day my overweight friend calls me Fattie, during a friendly teasing conversation. And of course I don’t cry, in fact I smile, and call her “Fattie” right back. And it even becomes our standard way of referring to each other. When we say it to each other, we’re joking with each other, taking on the derogatory term as our own way to identify _between each other._ Between us, it has become a term of affection, and a way to alleviate the pain of being called “fattie” by others. But if anyone else calls either of us “fattie,” then it hurts. Because they are using the term as a way to humiliate us and shame us. So again: my friend and I have taken over the term when talking to each other, not humiliating each other but building each other up, by transforming the hurtful term into a sympathetic one. But this does not mean others may call us Fattie, because their use of the term has a completely different significance. ## “Nigger” is the same for some (but not most) black people. But ombre I have a question for you. Have you really never thought of it this way? If you have, why ask the question? But if you haven’t, what do you suppose has led it not to occur to you? I ask you this because it seems like an immediately obvious idea to me, such that it would never have occurred to me to ask. Not in the sense that I am somehow “smart enough” to see it, but rather in the sense that it feels to me like breathing and seeing–just immediately apparent aspects of human existence. I would like to know what the difference is between people like you and people like me such that the above explanation simply doesn’t occur to you. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-now-i-am-asking-in-great-debates-whites-cannot-use-the-n-word-and-blacks-can-racist-idea/662219.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-now-i-am-asking-in-great-debates-whites-cannot-use-the-n-word-and-blacks-can-racist-idea/662219.md?page=4)