# OK Now I am asking in Great Debates... Whites cannot use the N word and blacks can. Racist idea? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 29, 2013, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-now-i-am-asking-in-great-debates-whites-cannot-use-the-n-word-and-blacks-can-racist-idea/662219 "2013-06-29T20:27:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![ombre12](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/d26b3c/32.png) [@ombre12](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ombre12)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2013, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-now-i-am-asking-in-great-debates-whites-cannot-use-the-n-word-and-blacks-can-racist-idea/662219/61 "2013-06-29T23:14:02Z")
OK. What practice is more racist? ---
**Author:** ![ombre12](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/d26b3c/32.png) [@ombre12](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ombre12)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2013, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-now-i-am-asking-in-great-debates-whites-cannot-use-the-n-word-and-blacks-can-racist-idea/662219/62 "2013-06-29T23:16:54Z")
This thread is going way too fast for me. Am answering posts way behind. Going to take a break now. Carry on you all. Back later. ---
**Author:** ![Cronq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/53a042/32.png) [@Cronq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cronq)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2013, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-now-i-am-asking-in-great-debates-whites-cannot-use-the-n-word-and-blacks-can-racist-idea/662219/63 "2013-06-29T23:18:07Z")
Who was the last prominent black person to have their career ruined once their racism came to light? ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2013, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-now-i-am-asking-in-great-debates-whites-cannot-use-the-n-word-and-blacks-can-racist-idea/662219/64 "2013-06-29T23:23:45Z")
If racism is simply treating individuals differently based on their race, then the practice of praising blacks who say “nigger” while criticizing non-blacks who say “nigger” is racist. But then, in that case, racism isn’t inherently bad. There will be good instances of racism, bad instances of racism, and neutral instances of racism. The one in question is, in my opinion, either neutral or a qualified good. You’re insisting that it’s racism, and I’ve just allowed that on the definition you seem to be using, it is indeed racism. Now the question is, do you think it’s _bad_ racism? The case that it’s good or neutral (even if racism) has been presented to you several times in this thread, including my most recent post. Do you have a reply? Do you think there is something wrong with the argument we’ve given that this is a justifiable, possibly even good, form of racism? ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2013, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-now-i-am-asking-in-great-debates-whites-cannot-use-the-n-word-and-blacks-can-racist-idea/662219/65 "2013-06-29T23:25:32Z")
> [@ombre12](#): > > This thread is going way too fast for me. I dunno, it started with everyone saying you were wrong and its movement from that point has been snail-like at best. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2013, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-now-i-am-asking-in-great-debates-whites-cannot-use-the-n-word-and-blacks-can-racist-idea/662219/66 "2013-06-29T23:27:03Z")
> [@ombre12](#): > > I am the least racist person you may ever know. > > I just dislike unfairness. So, you are saying that you dislike human groups? Every group, (be it based on nation, school, employment, religion, favorite movie director, ethnicity, or whatever), has in-group and out-group references. That you insist on focusing on the “racial” aspect of it while ignoring every other bit of evidence presented, indicates that your only concern is "race–not fairness, not language, not anything else that is pertinent to this discussion. Unless you are a solipsist living out near Ted Kaczynski, you have been part of a group and have engaged in the same behavior at one time or another. Why you feel the need to complain that you are prohibited from using an insult that you claim you would never use is just odd. > [@ombre12](#): > > OK. What practice is more racist? Drop it. It is not part of this discussion–unless your actual intent was to make some big deal out of “race” and this was just your way of sneaking the conversation in under a “Just Asking Questions” design. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2013, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-now-i-am-asking-in-great-debates-whites-cannot-use-the-n-word-and-blacks-can-racist-idea/662219/67 "2013-06-29T23:27:59Z")
> [@ombre12](#): > > This thread is going way too fast for me. Am answering posts way behind. > > Going to take a break now. Carry on you all. > > Back later. Before you return, read and understand ALL the other posts. ---
**Author:** ![babygoat666](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/2acd7d/32.png) [@babygoat666](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/babygoat666)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2013, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-now-i-am-asking-in-great-debates-whites-cannot-use-the-n-word-and-blacks-can-racist-idea/662219/68 "2013-06-30T00:04:33Z")
> [@ombre12](#): > > Come on guys…if it is based on race, it is racist. > > So what is racist anyway? You’re making an asshole out of yourself. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2013, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-now-i-am-asking-in-great-debates-whites-cannot-use-the-n-word-and-blacks-can-racist-idea/662219/69 "2013-06-30T00:19:05Z")
> [@ombre12](#): > > No more racist than those who deny me by various punishments, their right to use certain words ad nauseum that I would not dare to use due to repercussions. You’re wrong. There’s nothing racist about being opposed to racism. Racism is not a race. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2013, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-now-i-am-asking-in-great-debates-whites-cannot-use-the-n-word-and-blacks-can-racist-idea/662219/70 "2013-06-30T00:47:37Z")
Yes, the fact that it’s socially acceptable for blacks to use the word “nigger”, and not for whites, is evidence of the existence of racism… But not in the way you think. If we lived in a truly post-racism society, then the word “nigger” would be taken as simply a word to mean “person with darker than average skin color”, and would carry no offensive connotation. In such a world, anyone at all would be able to use the word without repercussions. But we don’t live in that world. In the world we do live in, a lot of people unfortunately still use the word “nigger” to mean “inferior person”, or “person who does not deserve the same rights as a white person”, or something along those lines. Given that people do still use the word that way, it becomes socially unacceptable for a non-black person to use the word “nigger”, because even if they don’t intend those sentiments, they can all too easily be inferred. And you know what? This doesn’t place any hardship on me. I don’t have to be careful at all about what I say, nor do I have to expend any effort, because I have no reason to use the word “nigger” to begin with. If you find that you are having to watch your speech carefully to avoid the word, you might want to ask yourself just why that is necessary for you. ---
**Author:** ![Ranger\_Jeff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranger_jeff/32/2065_2.png) [@Ranger\_Jeff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranger_Jeff)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2013, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-now-i-am-asking-in-great-debates-whites-cannot-use-the-n-word-and-blacks-can-racist-idea/662219/71 "2013-06-30T01:09:46Z")
> [@ombre12](#): > > I am the least racist person you may ever know. > > I just dislike unfairness. I hope you’re sitting down because I have some news for you. A very wise friend of mine pointed this out to me. It’s like this: \*\*\*The world is not fair. The world is round. \*\*\* I don’t care for unfairness, mixed messages, and double standards either. But they exist. I just try to treat people for who they are and what they do, not what they are. And small minded bigots and jerks come in all races, creeds, religions, nationalities, genders, etc. And good people do also. Except for the Dutch\*. :mad: \*yes, that is a joke. I was feeling I was getting too “Kum By Yah” ish. ---
**Author:** ![epbrown01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7ba0ec/32.png) [@epbrown01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/epbrown01)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2013, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-now-i-am-asking-in-great-debates-whites-cannot-use-the-n-word-and-blacks-can-racist-idea/662219/72 "2013-06-30T01:35:03Z")
> [@ombre12](#): > > Come on guys…if it is based on race, it is racist. It’s not based on race, it’s based on culture. That’s easily demonstrated by pointing out that there are _lots_ of non-blacks that use the word without “punishment,” offense or outcry because they’ve taken the time to learn about the culture. That’s easy enough to demonstrate: you couldn’t go to a country and western bar in the south/southwest and call strangers “peckerwood,” “hick,” or “redneck” even though they’re of the same ethnic background as you. Those words are insults that they use among themselves all the time, but someone outside the community using them would be offensive. Same for going to a gay bar and throwing around dyke and lesbian - people in the community use them all the time, but would take issue with an outsider using the terms around them. In fact, the responses would be pretty much identical to what you’d encounter going to a black club and throwing around insults. Outrage and possible violence - because people really are pretty much the same. The issue is here _is_ racism - the racism is in your refusal to acknowlege that black culture is as valid and varied as any other culture you don’t have carte blanche permission to insult. Where’s your “why can’t I call gay men faggot” thread? They use the term - isn’t that unfair too? Perhaps it’s the percentage of white faces in the group. ---
**Author:** ![pohjonen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pohjonen/32/423_2.png) [@pohjonen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pohjonen)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2013, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-now-i-am-asking-in-great-debates-whites-cannot-use-the-n-word-and-blacks-can-racist-idea/662219/73 "2013-06-30T01:44:32Z")
It’s the perceived intent of the person using the word. For example, if my 75 year old brother were to come up behind me in Walmart and say to me, “hurry up you senile old fart,” I would laugh. If some nineteen year old stranger were to say the same thing in the exact same circumstances, I would respond somewhat differently. And so would the OP. And I fail to see why this is in any way a mystery. ---
**Author:** ![marshmallow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@marshmallow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/marshmallow)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2013, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-now-i-am-asking-in-great-debates-whites-cannot-use-the-n-word-and-blacks-can-racist-idea/662219/74 "2013-06-30T01:52:07Z")
Nigger, spic, wop, and gook is racist. Retard, spaz, and sperg is ableist. Fag and dyke is homophobic. Bitch, cunt, pussy, and dick is sexist. Thank god for asshole, the only PC, progressive friendly insult left! ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2013, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-now-i-am-asking-in-great-debates-whites-cannot-use-the-n-word-and-blacks-can-racist-idea/662219/75 "2013-06-30T01:59:38Z")
> [@marshmallow](#): > > Thank god for asshole, the only PC, progressive friendly insult left! Rectist. ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2013, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-now-i-am-asking-in-great-debates-whites-cannot-use-the-n-word-and-blacks-can-racist-idea/662219/76 "2013-06-30T02:04:11Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Yes, the fact that it’s socially acceptable for blacks to use the word “nigger”, and not for whites, is evidence of the existence of racism… But not in the way you think. If we lived in a truly post-racism society, then the word “nigger” would be taken as simply a word to mean “person with darker than average skin color”, and would carry no offensive connotation. In such a world, anyone at all would be able to use the word without repercussions. > > But we don’t live in that world. In the world we do live in, a lot of people unfortunately still use the word “nigger” to mean “inferior person”, or “person who does not deserve the same rights as a white person”, or something along those lines. Given that people do still use the word that way, it becomes socially unacceptable for a non-black person to use the word “nigger”, because even if they don’t intend those sentiments, they can all too easily be inferred. > > And you know what? This doesn’t place any hardship on me. I don’t have to be careful at all about what I say, nor do I have to expend any effort, because I have no reason to use the word “nigger” to begin with. If you find that you are having to watch your speech carefully to avoid the word, you might want to ask yourself just why that is necessary for you. The above should be read carefully. The word nigger means “person who is black and who is despicable because he is black.” OP, if you want to refer to black people as “person who is black and who is despicable because he is black,” be my guest. I do not know why you would want to do this, but “it’s a free country.” Meanwhile, black people also are free to refer to each other as “person who is black and who is despicable because he is black.” Again–“free country” etc. Now imagine a black man saying to another black man, who he is great friends with, and with a big happy smile on his face, “Hey there, person who is black and despicable because black!” What do you think is happening here? Is one friend intentionally insulting the other, attempting to humiliate him? Of course not! It is clearly a joke! It is clearly a friendly kind of teasing. Now. Imagine you (whatever non-black race you are) saying to a black man, “Hey there, person who is black and despicable because black!” How likely is it that you are going to be understood to be joking or teasing in this instance? Not very likely. Not because racism–but because of what the word simply _means_. It means what it means. Since you’re not black, there’s nothing about you saying the word that signals you are just joking, teasing, or winking in some other way. It comes across, naturally, as simply an insult. When a black person says it, precisely because the word does mean what it means, everyone understands he almost certainly means to use the word in a joking or winking way. It would make almost no sense for him to use it straightforwardly, since he’d be calling himself despicable if he did so! ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2013, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-now-i-am-asking-in-great-debates-whites-cannot-use-the-n-word-and-blacks-can-racist-idea/662219/77 "2013-06-30T02:39:16Z")
> [@babygoat666](#): > > You’re making an asshole out of yourself. Do not resort to name-calling in any forum outside The BBQ Pit. This is a Warning that continuing that behavior will result in the loss of posting privileges. [/Moderating] ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2013, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-now-i-am-asking-in-great-debates-whites-cannot-use-the-n-word-and-blacks-can-racist-idea/662219/78 "2013-06-30T02:41:24Z")
> [@marshmallow](#): > > Thank god for asshole, the only PC, progressive friendly insult left! However, in this forum, insults are prohibited without regard to any potentially associated -isms. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2013, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-now-i-am-asking-in-great-debates-whites-cannot-use-the-n-word-and-blacks-can-racist-idea/662219/79 "2013-06-30T02:59:04Z")
I’ll point out that generally speaking, when white people think that black people are using the term “nigger” to refer to each other, they’re usually using the term “nigga” which isn’t the same. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2013, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-now-i-am-asking-in-great-debates-whites-cannot-use-the-n-word-and-blacks-can-racist-idea/662219/80 "2013-06-30T03:29:03Z")
> [@marshmallow](#): > > Nigger, spic, wop, and gook is racist. Retard, spaz, and sperg is ableist. Fag and dyke is homophobic. Bitch, cunt, pussy, and dick is sexist. > > Thank god for asshole, the only PC, progressive friendly insult left! It really is so unfair that people object to their race or ethnicity or gender or disability being used as a term of disparagement. Why can’t they just accept that we don’t care about their feelings because we see them as lesser human beings and just leave us alone? I admit that this stuff can make it a little more complicated to insult people, but even if you rule out all these terms, it’s not that hard and the objections have a lot of merit. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-now-i-am-asking-in-great-debates-whites-cannot-use-the-n-word-and-blacks-can-racist-idea/662219.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-now-i-am-asking-in-great-debates-whites-cannot-use-the-n-word-and-blacks-can-racist-idea/662219.md?page=5)