# OK Now I am asking in Great Debates... Whites cannot use the N word and blacks can. Racist idea? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 29, 2013, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-now-i-am-asking-in-great-debates-whites-cannot-use-the-n-word-and-blacks-can-racist-idea/662219 "2013-06-29T20:27:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Cheshire\_Human](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/5f8ce5/32.png) [@Cheshire\_Human](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheshire_Human)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2013, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-now-i-am-asking-in-great-debates-whites-cannot-use-the-n-word-and-blacks-can-racist-idea/662219/141 "2013-07-04T00:29:52Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > Unless you are a solipsist living out near Ted Kaczynski,… [He’s](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ted_Kaczynski#Prison) currently living in [Fremont County, Colorado](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ADX_Florence), and looks to be living there for quite a while longer. There doesn’t appear to be a whole lot of solipsists living around there. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2013, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-now-i-am-asking-in-great-debates-whites-cannot-use-the-n-word-and-blacks-can-racist-idea/662219/142 "2013-07-04T00:36:00Z")
> [@ombre12](#): > > I still don’t follow the rationale. The N word should be disgusting to everyone > > An obscene word is obscene everywhere. Hardly. Obscenity depends on context. That said, as a black man, I find “the n-word” to be a stupid construction. I’m offended when someone calls me a nigger in an attempt to denigrate, insult, belittle, or otherwise vex me, not when they’re quoting someone else. If you’re referring to, say, the former Food Network chef and her fall from Grace, just say "Paula Deen got canned for calling people ‘nigger.’ " Words aren’t magic. Slurs only gain power by being made utterly taboo. ---
**Author:** ![ombre12](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/d26b3c/32.png) [@ombre12](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ombre12)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2013, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-now-i-am-asking-in-great-debates-whites-cannot-use-the-n-word-and-blacks-can-racist-idea/662219/143 "2013-07-04T02:16:57Z")
Already been taken back by me on this thread long ago. I wish everyone would read all the posts on this very long thread. ---
**Author:** ![Renee\_RL](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/7c8e57/32.png) [@Renee\_RL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Renee_RL)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2013, 7:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-now-i-am-asking-in-great-debates-whites-cannot-use-the-n-word-and-blacks-can-racist-idea/662219/144 "2013-07-04T07:18:38Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > Hardly. Obscenity depends on context. > > That said, as a black man, I find “the n-word” to be a stupid construction. I’m offended when someone calls me a nigger in an attempt to denigrate, insult, belittle, or otherwise vex me, not when they’re quoting someone else. If you’re referring to, say, the former Food Network chef and her fall from Grace, just say "Paula Deen got canned for calling people ‘nigger.’ " > > Words aren’t magic. Slurs only gain power by being made utterly taboo. I taught in inner city Brooklyn and the n word was used almost the same way you would say bro. One kid explained …“we can use it…but white people can’t”. That made it empowering. Look I take all the credit for words in rap. Jay z was my student and he told magazines that I gave him his love for words. I was in his video bio and they interviewed me for hours and I laughed because I was on for a minute talking about the violence. ---
**Author:** ![B.Serum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/b.serum/32/14266_2.png) [@B.Serum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/B.Serum)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2013, 9:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-now-i-am-asking-in-great-debates-whites-cannot-use-the-n-word-and-blacks-can-racist-idea/662219/145 "2013-07-04T09:29:35Z")
> [@ombre12](#): > > I just dislike unfairness. I’m going to take you for your word. I dislike unfairness as well. I think the inequity of persons with a particular shade of skin being able to utter a combination of phonemes without people looking askance at him/her is REALLY SMALL POTATOES compared to — oh let me just pick a random inequity out of the air — poverty being twice as high for African Americans as they are for white people. And that, ombre, is just the tip of the iceberg in this very unequal world of ours. So yes, I think you’re right: African Americans get a pass that white people don’t get. That pass is more than dwarfed by the challenges the _average_ African American has to overcome to enjoy the life that a _average_ white guy takes for granted. I’m sorry the posters in this thread haven’t been more sympathetic with you. I would suggest you join an association of (women / American Indians / Hispanic Americans / LGBTQ) — I hear they like to keep up to date on matters of unfairness. Maybe you’ll have better luck with them. ---
**Author:** ![B.Serum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/b.serum/32/14266_2.png) [@B.Serum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/B.Serum)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2013, 9:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-now-i-am-asking-in-great-debates-whites-cannot-use-the-n-word-and-blacks-can-racist-idea/662219/146 "2013-07-04T09:32:13Z")
> [@Prejteach2](#): > > Jay z was my student and he told magazines that I gave him his love for words. I was in his video bio and they interviewed me for hours and I laughed because I was on for a minute talking about the violence. :eek: Holy shit, that’s awesome! _Does that make you his nigga?_ ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2013, 10:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-now-i-am-asking-in-great-debates-whites-cannot-use-the-n-word-and-blacks-can-racist-idea/662219/147 "2013-07-05T10:08:08Z")
> [@Bozuit](#): > > Personally, I think holding onto the word “nigger” as The Worst Word is short-sighted in its attempt to fight racism. All we’re doing is making the word powerful and a genuine insult. That’s intentional. Reducing the power of the word is exactly what black people don’t want. Because they are allowed to use it. They get to have a little extra power to make up for their own powerlessness. You may not like this, but they clearly do. And who are we white people to argue? ---
**Author:** ![ombre12](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/d26b3c/32.png) [@ombre12](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ombre12)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2013, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-now-i-am-asking-in-great-debates-whites-cannot-use-the-n-word-and-blacks-can-racist-idea/662219/148 "2013-07-05T17:17:41Z")
I’ve pretty much decided that it is …“to each his own”. If blacks want to use the N word because they like it… Shouldn’t be any skin off my patootie. ---
**Author:** ![Renee\_RL](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/7c8e57/32.png) [@Renee\_RL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Renee_RL)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2013, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-now-i-am-asking-in-great-debates-whites-cannot-use-the-n-word-and-blacks-can-racist-idea/662219/149 "2013-07-05T23:26:51Z")
> [@B.Serum](#): > > :eek: Holy shit, that’s awesome! > _Does that make you his nigga?_ I spoke to him and told him ifhe really wanted to honor me, he work write songs honoring women, not dissing them. He was a sweet and bright kid and has been very kind to me. ---
**Author:** ![NonaSequitur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f1d935/32.png) [@NonaSequitur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NonaSequitur)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2013, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-now-i-am-asking-in-great-debates-whites-cannot-use-the-n-word-and-blacks-can-racist-idea/662219/150 "2013-07-05T23:46:47Z")
> [@](#): > > What is all this about whites and the “definition of whiteness”? I honestly have no idea what you’re talking about with regard to the present. Not sure if you realize, but Europeans did not conceive of themselves as “white” until the slave trade and even then Americans did not conceive of Italians, Jews and Irish as “white” until the 20th century. So the boundaries of whiteness have always been fluid. So much so that some people believe that Latinos, may one day [become white](http://prospect.org/article/blacknon-black-divide) ---
**Author:** ![Renee\_RL](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/7c8e57/32.png) [@Renee\_RL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Renee_RL)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2013, 7:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-now-i-am-asking-in-great-debates-whites-cannot-use-the-n-word-and-blacks-can-racist-idea/662219/151 "2013-07-06T07:59:49Z")
> [@NonaSequitur](#): > > Not sure if you realize, but Europeans did not conceive of themselves as “white” until the slave trade and even then Americans did not conceive of Italians, Jews and Irish as “white” until the 20th century. So the boundaries of whiteness have always been fluid. So much so that some people believe that Latinos, may one day [become white](http://prospect.org/article/blacknon-black-divide) We are defined by how we are discriminated against. If you are a Mexican no one cares what religion you are. If you are a Jew no one cares what country you come from if you are black no one cares what religion you are or where you come from. ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2013, 8:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-now-i-am-asking-in-great-debates-whites-cannot-use-the-n-word-and-blacks-can-racist-idea/662219/152 "2013-07-06T08:13:00Z")
Its ironic reading a bunch of white folks defending a black persons right to use the N word when many blacks use the word to marginalize other black people. ---
**Author:** ![BigNik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/73ab20/32.png) [@BigNik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigNik)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2013, 12:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-now-i-am-asking-in-great-debates-whites-cannot-use-the-n-word-and-blacks-can-racist-idea/662219/153 "2013-07-06T12:52:58Z")
> [@NonaSequitur](#): > > Not sure if you realize, but Europeans did not conceive of themselves as “white” until the slave trade and even then Americans did not conceive of Italians, Jews and Irish as “white” until the 20th century. So the boundaries of whiteness have always been fluid. So much so that some people believe that Latinos, may one day [become white](http://prospect.org/article/blacknon-black-divide) I should point out that no-one outside of North America thinks that they aren’t. Paraphrasing John Oliver on the Bugle podcast, ‘Americans are so racist they even have to invent races to be racist to’. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2013, 12:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-now-i-am-asking-in-great-debates-whites-cannot-use-the-n-word-and-blacks-can-racist-idea/662219/154 "2013-07-06T12:56:25Z")
> [@madsircool](#): > > Its ironic reading a bunch of white folks defending a black persons right to use the N word when many blacks use the word to marginalize other black people. I’m not sure that _is_ how they use it, but even if so… so? Although “defending” the right is a bit strong. The right is not actually in jeopardy - its only challenge is the wishful thinking of the OP. ---
**Author:** ![Mean\_Mr.Mustard](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mean_mr.mustard/32/3865_2.png) [@Mean\_Mr.Mustard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mean_Mr.Mustard)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2013, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-now-i-am-asking-in-great-debates-whites-cannot-use-the-n-word-and-blacks-can-racist-idea/662219/155 "2013-07-06T13:44:05Z")
> [@ombre12](#): > > Definitely a racist idea. I’m tired of this over-used phrase, but in this case I can’t help myself… I don’t think racism means what you think it means. mmm ---
**Author:** ![ombre12](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/d26b3c/32.png) [@ombre12](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ombre12)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2013, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-now-i-am-asking-in-great-debates-whites-cannot-use-the-n-word-and-blacks-can-racist-idea/662219/156 "2013-07-06T17:50:39Z")
I do understand how most on this forum define racism. It can only be used in the context of a majority oppressing a minority. By definition a minority CANNOT in any way be racist. Have I got it right? ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2013, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-now-i-am-asking-in-great-debates-whites-cannot-use-the-n-word-and-blacks-can-racist-idea/662219/157 "2013-07-06T17:57:09Z")
> [@ombre12](#): > > I do understand how most on this forum define racism. It can only be used in the context of a majority oppressing a minority. By definition a minority CANNOT in any way be racist. > > Have I got it right? Not even close. ---
**Author:** ![ombre12](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/d26b3c/32.png) [@ombre12](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ombre12)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2013, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-now-i-am-asking-in-great-debates-whites-cannot-use-the-n-word-and-blacks-can-racist-idea/662219/158 "2013-07-06T18:00:04Z")
Damn… I thought I had it too. Somewhere back in this thread someone proved that to me with a dictionary definition. ---
**Author:** ![NonaSequitur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f1d935/32.png) [@NonaSequitur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NonaSequitur)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2013, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-now-i-am-asking-in-great-debates-whites-cannot-use-the-n-word-and-blacks-can-racist-idea/662219/159 "2013-07-06T22:12:57Z")
> [@ombre12](#): > > Damn… I thought I had it too. > > Somewhere back in this thread someone proved that to me with a dictionary definition. Found this: > [@](#): > > Make sure you understand the definitions of the terms that are going to be used. The first thing you really need to understand is that the definition of racism that you probably have (which is the colloquial definition: “racism is prejudice against someone based on their skin color or ethnicity”) is NOT the definition that’s commonly used in anti-racist circles. > > The definition used in anti-racist circles is the accepted sociological definition (which is commonly used in academic research, and has been used for more than a decade now): “racism is prejudice plus power”. What this means, in easy language: > > A. Anyone can hold “racial prejudice” – that is, they can carry positive or negative stereotypes of others based on racial characteristics. For example, a white person thinking all Asians are smart, or all black people are criminals; or a Chinese person thinking Japanese people are untrustworthy; or what-have-you. ANYONE, of any race, can have racial prejudices. > > B. People of any race can commit acts of violence, mistreatment, ostracizing, etc., based on their racial prejudices. A black kid can beat up a white kid because he doesn’t like white kids. An Indian person can refuse to associate with Asians. Whatever, you get the idea. > > C. However, to be racist (rather than simply prejudiced) requires having institutional power. In North America, white people have the institutional power. In large part we head the corporations; we make up the largest proportion of lawmakers and judges; we have the money; we make the decisions. In short, we control the systems that matter. “White” is presented as normal, the default. Because we have institutional power, when we think differently about people based on their race or act on our racial prejudices, we are being racist. Only white people can be racist, because only white people have institutional power. > > D. People of color can be prejudiced, but they cannot be racist, because they don’t have the institutional power. (However, some people refer to intra-PoC prejudice as “lateral racism”. You may also hear the term “colorism”, which refers to lighter-skinned PoC being prejudiced toward darker-skinned PoC.) However, that situation can be different in other countries; for example, a Japanese person in Japan can be racist against others, because the Japanese have the institutional power there. But in North America, Japanese people can’t be racist because they don’t hold the institutional power. [source](http://stuffwhitepeopledo.blogspot.com/2009/08/wonder-where-to-start-when-they-join.html) ---
**Author:** ![ombre12](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/d26b3c/32.png) [@ombre12](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ombre12)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2013, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-now-i-am-asking-in-great-debates-whites-cannot-use-the-n-word-and-blacks-can-racist-idea/662219/160 "2013-07-06T23:08:07Z")
Thanks for searching for me. I think there is even one or two more with basically the same definition. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-now-i-am-asking-in-great-debates-whites-cannot-use-the-n-word-and-blacks-can-racist-idea/662219.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-now-i-am-asking-in-great-debates-whites-cannot-use-the-n-word-and-blacks-can-racist-idea/662219.md?page=9)