# OK Now I am asking in Great Debates... Whites cannot use the N word and blacks can. Racist idea? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 29, 2013, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-now-i-am-asking-in-great-debates-whites-cannot-use-the-n-word-and-blacks-can-racist-idea/662219 "2013-06-29T20:27:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2013, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-now-i-am-asking-in-great-debates-whites-cannot-use-the-n-word-and-blacks-can-racist-idea/662219/161 "2013-07-06T23:23:21Z")
> [@NonaSequitur](#): > > Found this: > [source](http://stuffwhitepeopledo.blogspot.com/2009/08/wonder-where-to-start-when-they-join.html) Note that this is not a definition that is universally accepted in every context, even among liberals or social scientists. Racism and institutional racism are not necessarily co-terminal. To me, racism is a belief that one’s race (however one defines it) is significantly determinative of other important personal characteristics—such as ability, potential, morality, ethics, intelligence, character, etc. ---
**Author:** ![NonaSequitur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f1d935/32.png) [@NonaSequitur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NonaSequitur)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2013, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-now-i-am-asking-in-great-debates-whites-cannot-use-the-n-word-and-blacks-can-racist-idea/662219/162 "2013-07-06T23:31:35Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > Note that this is not a definition that is universally accepted in every context, even among liberals or social scientists. Racism and institutional racism are not necessarily co-terminal. > > To me, racism is a belief that one’s race (however one defines it) is significantly determinative of other important personal characteristics—such as ability, potential, morality, ethics, intelligence, character, etc. I’ve heard that one. But it seems to me you could slot that under prejudice. For example, is a black person who thinks white people inherently lack rhythm racist, or just prejudiced? Perhaps all forms of racism are prejudice but not all forms of prejudice are racism? ---
**Author:** ![Psychopants](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/eb8c5e/32.png) [@Psychopants](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Psychopants)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2013, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-now-i-am-asking-in-great-debates-whites-cannot-use-the-n-word-and-blacks-can-racist-idea/662219/163 "2013-07-06T23:51:13Z")
Well, that’s a half hour of my life i will never get back. Sadness thread. ---
**Author:** ![Truman\_Burbank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecc23a/32.png) [@Truman\_Burbank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Truman_Burbank)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2013, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-now-i-am-asking-in-great-debates-whites-cannot-use-the-n-word-and-blacks-can-racist-idea/662219/164 "2013-07-06T23:55:57Z")
Then How is this not racism? At its worst? At its worst? Are you kidding me? What, are you minorly inconvenienced by not being able to use the n-word, it’s so unfair. And in our history, not too far back, we’ve had lynchings for the crime of allegedly whistling at a white woman while being a black teenager. ---
**Author:** ![NonaSequitur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f1d935/32.png) [@NonaSequitur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NonaSequitur)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2013, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-now-i-am-asking-in-great-debates-whites-cannot-use-the-n-word-and-blacks-can-racist-idea/662219/165 "2013-07-07T00:02:16Z")
> [@Truman\_Burbank](#): > > Then How is this not racism? At its worst? > > At its worst? Are you kidding me? What, are you minorly inconvenienced by not being able to use the n-word, it’s so unfair. > And in our history, not too far back, we’ve had lynchings for the crime of allegedly whistling at a white woman while being a black teenager. I find that a lot of folk’s grasp of the history of race relations in this country is limited to slavery, emancipation proclamation, separate drinking fountains, Martin Luther King, the end. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2013, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-now-i-am-asking-in-great-debates-whites-cannot-use-the-n-word-and-blacks-can-racist-idea/662219/166 "2013-07-07T00:23:39Z")
> [@NonaSequitur](#): > > I’ve heard that one. But it seems to me you could slot that under prejudice. For example, is a black person who thinks white people inherently lack rhythm racist, or just prejudiced? Perhaps all forms of racism are prejudice but not all forms of prejudice are racism? I would define “prejudice” as a tendency to dislike or to treat a person based on some superficial characteristic, such as race, sexual preference, gender, nationality, religion, whatever. Theoretically, you can be prejudiced against black people without actually believing that their blackness implies some other characteristic. In that sense, “prejudice” and “racism” often—but not necessarily—overlap. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2013, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-now-i-am-asking-in-great-debates-whites-cannot-use-the-n-word-and-blacks-can-racist-idea/662219/167 "2013-07-07T00:38:32Z")
> [@NonaSequitur](#): > > Found this: > [source](http://stuffwhitepeopledo.blogspot.com/2009/08/wonder-where-to-start-when-they-join.html) Sorry. I don’t buy it. The notion that racism can only occur in conjunction with power has been floating around since the early 1970s. There is no reason to accept that definition, (aside from giving non-white people an “out” from being called on their racism). Read any lengthy text from Louis Farrakhan and you will encounter undiluted racism. I am making no claim that “everyone” is racist, but the alternative scenario in which only one group can be racist is without merit. ---
**Author:** ![ombre12](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/d26b3c/32.png) [@ombre12](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ombre12)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2013, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-now-i-am-asking-in-great-debates-whites-cannot-use-the-n-word-and-blacks-can-racist-idea/662219/168 "2013-07-07T00:48:50Z")
> [@Truman\_Burbank](#): > > Then How is this not racism? At its worst? > > At its worst? Are you kidding me? What, are you minorly inconvenienced by not being able to use the n-word, it’s so unfair. > And in our history, not too far back, we’ve had lynchings for the crime of allegedly whistling at a white woman while being a black teenager. I’ve taken back the “racism at its worst” comment more times than I can count. That was a long way back on this thread. ..(..Well I guess you aren’t referring to me. Didn’t notice anyone else ever posting that.) ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2013, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-now-i-am-asking-in-great-debates-whites-cannot-use-the-n-word-and-blacks-can-racist-idea/662219/169 "2013-07-07T03:34:00Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > Sorry. I don’t buy it. The notion that racism can only occur in conjunction with power has been floating around since the early 1970s. There is no reason to accept that definition, (aside from giving non-white people an “out” from being called on their racism). Read any lengthy text from Louis Farrakhan and you will encounter undiluted racism. > > I am making no claim that “everyone” is racist, but the alternative scenario in which only one group can be racist is without merit. You ever try to be racist _without_ power? It’s boring, no-one listens to you. ---
**Author:** ![Renee\_RL](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/7c8e57/32.png) [@Renee\_RL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Renee_RL)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2013, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-now-i-am-asking-in-great-debates-whites-cannot-use-the-n-word-and-blacks-can-racist-idea/662219/170 "2013-07-07T23:41:09Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > You ever try to be racist _without_ power? It’s boring, no-one listens to you. Black people are as racist as women are sexist… ---
**Author:** ![Truman\_Burbank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecc23a/32.png) [@Truman\_Burbank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Truman_Burbank)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2013, 7:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-now-i-am-asking-in-great-debates-whites-cannot-use-the-n-word-and-blacks-can-racist-idea/662219/171 "2013-07-08T07:31:54Z")
> [@ombre12](#): > > I’ve taken back the “racism at its worst” comment more times than I can count. > > That was a long way back on this thread. > > ..(..Well I guess you aren’t referring to me. Didn’t notice anyone else ever posting that.) OK, sorry long thread, did not read it all. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2013, 8:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-now-i-am-asking-in-great-debates-whites-cannot-use-the-n-word-and-blacks-can-racist-idea/662219/172 "2013-07-08T08:54:16Z")
Let me put it to you like this, **ombre12**. You’re 70 years old. There are a couple of social events I go to that have a high proportion of senior citizens e.g. chess club. When I go there I note that several of the people are comfortable calling each other (and themselves) “old gits” and similar terms. However, even though I am good friends with some of those guys, I can’t use terms like that because I know it would be offensive coming from a young person (I’m 34 but still). Is this ageism? Should the old people that use such terms be reprimanded? ---
**Author:** ![Renee\_RL](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/7c8e57/32.png) [@Renee\_RL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Renee_RL)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2013, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-now-i-am-asking-in-great-debates-whites-cannot-use-the-n-word-and-blacks-can-racist-idea/662219/173 "2013-07-15T18:49:48Z")
> [@Mijin](#): > > Let me put it to you like this, **ombre12**. > > You’re 70 years old. > There are a couple of social events I go to that have a high proportion of senior citizens e.g. chess club. When I go there I note that several of the people are comfortable calling each other (and themselves) “old gits” and similar terms. > However, even though I am good friends with some of those guys, I can’t use terms like that because I know it would be offensive coming from a young person (I’m 34 but still). > > Is this ageism? Should the old people that use such terms be reprimanded? We can talk about ourselves but should know when it is inappropriate to talk about others. A fat person can make fun of his body, but no one else should. The only word that is used by everyone and pisses me off is the word bitch ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2013, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-now-i-am-asking-in-great-debates-whites-cannot-use-the-n-word-and-blacks-can-racist-idea/662219/174 "2013-07-15T19:37:42Z")
Does that mean we shouldn’t bitch about the bitches who bitch about our female dogs? ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2013, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-now-i-am-asking-in-great-debates-whites-cannot-use-the-n-word-and-blacks-can-racist-idea/662219/175 "2013-07-15T20:38:15Z")
If the dogs uses it, then its ok, but nobody else should 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Zyada](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zyada/32/3028_2.png) [@Zyada](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zyada)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2013, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-now-i-am-asking-in-great-debates-whites-cannot-use-the-n-word-and-blacks-can-racist-idea/662219/176 "2013-08-15T22:36:17Z")
Late to the party, but I wanted to add this: Anyone can use a hateful word _if the people who hear it recognizes that the speaker is not prejudiced in the way the word normally implies_. Or perhaps I should say that you can use these negative words as long as your audience knows you don’t mean it. So, members of a group automatically get a pass on the hateful words associated with that group. Black people can call each other “nigger” because they are rarely prejudiced against black people in general. Others will not get this free pass. However, if the speaker’s audience knows the speaker well enough to know that he/she is not prejudiced (for instance, very close friends) or the speaker lets the audience know beforehand (in a plausible way) that the speaker is not prejudiced (for example, at the end of a diatribe against prejudice, or spoken with heavy sarcasm), that speaker can use this set of words (although advisedly). Basically, assholes use these words to try to manipulate people of different groups. If you don’t want to be taken for an asshole, don’t use these words or make sure your audience is very clear on where you’re coming from. If you **are** an asshole, don’t be surprised when people decide to not take your abusive crap. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2013, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-now-i-am-asking-in-great-debates-whites-cannot-use-the-n-word-and-blacks-can-racist-idea/662219/177 "2013-08-15T23:42:13Z")
> [@ombre12](#): > > Am opening this thread because I am curious about black arguments for it. > > Seems like a no brainer to me. Definitely a racist idea. Not a racist idea at all. It’s more of a compassionate idea. It’s a word with a history of ignorance, intolerance and fear behind it. Those who find themselves a few ( or less ) generations removed from having the word used against them, are the only people who could Possibly use the word with a different intent, if so chosen. Big deal. You can’t say it. Sucks to be you. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2013, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-now-i-am-asking-in-great-debates-whites-cannot-use-the-n-word-and-blacks-can-racist-idea/662219/178 "2013-08-16T01:51:42Z")
> [@bobot](#): > > Not a racist idea at all. It’s more of a compassionate idea. It’s a word with a history of ignorance, intolerance and fear behind it. Those who find themselves a few ( or less ) generations removed from having the word used against them, are the only people who could Possibly use the word with a different intent, if so chosen. Big deal. You can’t say it. Sucks to be you. _Psssst! **bobot**._ Note **ombre** ’s [Post #127](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=16431049#post16431049). While there is still room for contention, he has already noted that he does not hold the same views that he posted in the OP. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2013, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-now-i-am-asking-in-great-debates-whites-cannot-use-the-n-word-and-blacks-can-racist-idea/662219/179 "2013-08-16T02:28:46Z")
> [@NonaSequitur](#): > > Not sure if you realize, but Europeans did not conceive of themselves as “white” until the slave trade and even then Americans did not conceive of Italians, Jews and Irish as “white” until the 20th century. So the boundaries of whiteness have always been fluid. So much so that some people believe that Latinos, may one day [become white](http://prospect.org/article/blacknon-black-divide) What idiot told you that “Italians, Jews, and Irish” in the 18th and 19th Century weren’t considered white? They were certainly discriminated against, but always considered whites, if lesser whites. If not, they wouldn’t have been able to become US citizens since until 1952(!) by law in order to become naturalized citizens one had to be a “free, white person”. That’s why during the 19th Century Chinese immigrants couldn’t become US citizens while the Jews, Irish, and Italians practically became citizens after they stepped off the boat. In fact, until SCOTUS stepped in in 1885, the children of Chinese immigrants born in the US weren’t citizens. The Irish, Italians and Jews faced lots of social discrimination, but they never encountered the legal discrimination that the Chinese faced because they were still whites albeit lesser or other whites. They faced lots ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2013, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-now-i-am-asking-in-great-debates-whites-cannot-use-the-n-word-and-blacks-can-racist-idea/662219/180 "2013-08-16T03:34:33Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > What idiot told you that “Italians, Jews, and Irish” in the 18th and 19th Century weren’t considered white? > > … > > If not, they wouldn’t have been able to become US citizens since until 1952(!) by law in order to become naturalized citizens one had to be a “free, white person”. The government’s definition of “white” was not the only definition in use at the time. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-now-i-am-asking-in-great-debates-whites-cannot-use-the-n-word-and-blacks-can-racist-idea/662219.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-now-i-am-asking-in-great-debates-whites-cannot-use-the-n-word-and-blacks-can-racist-idea/662219.md?page=10)