# OK, NOW I'm REALLY annoyed with the Anti-vaccination crowd **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 27, 2007, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-now-im-really-annoyed-with-the-anti-vaccination-crowd/420704 "2007-09-27T17:50:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![foresam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3bc359/32.png) [@foresam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foresam)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2007, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-now-im-really-annoyed-with-the-anti-vaccination-crowd/420704/221 "2007-09-30T23:10:02Z")
[QUOTE=Inner Stickler] So you don’t actually even know if mercury is or was present in your child? [/QUOTE] We all know it was present from the vaccines. I know it started coming out when he started to improve after being a “vegetable” for 7 years, zero development. Most kids can get rid of the mercury on their own. Those with the APO-E3 and E4 proteins can’t. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2007, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-now-im-really-annoyed-with-the-anti-vaccination-crowd/420704/222 "2007-09-30T23:10:04Z")
[QUOTE=Hentor the Barbarian] You’re a fucking moron. [/QUOTE] I thought that was established with his first post. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2007, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-now-im-really-annoyed-with-the-anti-vaccination-crowd/420704/223 "2007-09-30T23:11:15Z")
[QUOTE=foresam] We all know it was present from the vaccines. I know it started coming out when he started to improve after being a “vegetable” for 7 years, zero development. Most kids can get rid of the mercury on their own. Those with the APO-E3 and E4 proteins can’t. [/QUOTE] But you didn’t test for it so you can’t say that it was present for certain. You can only assume. ---
**Author:** ![foresam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3bc359/32.png) [@foresam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foresam)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2007, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-now-im-really-annoyed-with-the-anti-vaccination-crowd/420704/224 "2007-09-30T23:12:01Z")
[QUOTE=Hentor the Barbarian] That doesn’t say a thing about humans, autism, vaccine **or** thimerosal. You’re a fucking moron. [/QUOTE] Are you the guy who’s allegedly a psychologist? I can see why you couldn’t get into med school to become a psychiatrist. You’re too slow a learner for me to teach you anything. Stck to watching rats run through mazes. ---
**Author:** ![foresam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3bc359/32.png) [@foresam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foresam)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2007, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-now-im-really-annoyed-with-the-anti-vaccination-crowd/420704/225 "2007-09-30T23:13:21Z")
[QUOTE=Inner Stickler] But you didn’t test for it so you can’t say that it was present for certain. You can only assume. [/QUOTE] And I proved my assumption was correct when chelation began to ameliorate the problems caused by mercury. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2007, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-now-im-really-annoyed-with-the-anti-vaccination-crowd/420704/226 "2007-09-30T23:15:19Z")
[QUOTE=foresam] And I proved my assumption was correct when chelation began to ameliorate the problems caused by mercury. [/QUOTE] Ameliorate? I thought you said “cure.” ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2007, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-now-im-really-annoyed-with-the-anti-vaccination-crowd/420704/227 "2007-09-30T23:15:24Z")
[QUOTE=foresam] And I proved my assumption was correct when chelation began to ameliorate the problems caused by mercury. [/QUOTE] Who ordered the Post Hoc Ergo Propter Hoc Fallacy? ---
**Author:** ![foresam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3bc359/32.png) [@foresam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foresam)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2007, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-now-im-really-annoyed-with-the-anti-vaccination-crowd/420704/228 "2007-09-30T23:16:28Z")
[QUOTE=Inner Stickler] I thought that was established with his first post.[/QUOTE It has not been established at all but it is a good method for nitwits to make themselves feel good about themselves. ---
**Author:** ![foresam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3bc359/32.png) [@foresam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foresam)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2007, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-now-im-really-annoyed-with-the-anti-vaccination-crowd/420704/229 "2007-09-30T23:17:45Z")
[QUOTE=Hentor the Barbarian] Ameliorate? I thought you said “cure.” [/QUOTE] Chelation is not an overnight cure. It can take years. Slow improvement is the norm. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2007, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-now-im-really-annoyed-with-the-anti-vaccination-crowd/420704/230 "2007-09-30T23:18:56Z")
As opposed to finding illusory connections between vaccines and autism? ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2007, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-now-im-really-annoyed-with-the-anti-vaccination-crowd/420704/231 "2007-09-30T23:19:30Z")
[QUOTE=foresam] The fact that a lawyer was bothering people and being a pain in the ass should have aroused your suspicions. You should have shared her letters with all of us and let us expose the fraud completely. [/QUOTE] Why? She never posted on the board. Everyone who does post on the board got to post everything they wanted to say with the exception of some virulent personal attacks you launched that were neither acceptable behavior nor relevant to the discussion. Now I see that your whole claim for having cured your child is based on nothing more than you imagining that something had to have happened because you ran into it in the words of some cpnspiracy nut. Fine. I hope your kid survives your parenting. (And, of course, based on your story, there does not appear to be any reason to believe your child was actually autistic, either. It appears that you treated your child for a false diagnosis with a phony treatment that appears (fortunately) to have had no bad repercussions and now you are out trying to tell people to harm their children because your ignorance happened to have not harmed yours.) ---
**Author:** ![LavenderBlue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e95f7d/32.png) [@LavenderBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LavenderBlue)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2007, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-now-im-really-annoyed-with-the-anti-vaccination-crowd/420704/232 "2007-09-30T23:20:50Z")
As many people have pointed out, thimerosal was removed from vaccines. Autism rates have not fallen. The MMR never had any to begin with. ---
**Author:** ![foresam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3bc359/32.png) [@foresam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foresam)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2007, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-now-im-really-annoyed-with-the-anti-vaccination-crowd/420704/233 "2007-09-30T23:22:30Z")
WASHINGTON, DC – A new peer-reviewed scientific/ \>medical case study confirms that many children \>with autistic spectrum disorders (ASDs) suffer \>from mercury poisoning. \> \>The new study, “A Prospective Study of Mercury \>Toxicity Biomarkers in Autistic Spectrum Disorders” \>by Mr. David A. Geier and Dr. Mark R. Geier has \>been published in the most recent issue of the \>Journal of Toxicology and Environmental Health, \>Part A (volume 70, issue 20, pgs 1723-1730). \> \>This study utilized urinary porphyrin profile \>analysis (UPPA) to assess body-burden and \>physiological effects of mercury in children \>diagnosed with ASDs. \> \>Using UPPA, Geier and Geier (2007) examined 71 \>children diagnosed with ASDs, 9 neurotypical \>siblings, and 5 general population controls. The \>researchers studied urinary porphyrin patterns \>using results reported both by the US Laboratory \>Corporation of America (LabCorp) and the French \>Laboratoire Philippe Auguste. \> \>Their findings demonstrated that: \>• Only the non-chelated patients diagnosed with \> ASDs had porphyrin patterns indicative of \> clinical mercury toxicity. \>• Treating ASD diagnosed patients with chelating \> agents resulted in lower mercury-specific \> urinary porphyrins. \>• The UPPA patterns reported were consistent \> between the two labs used. \> \>The results of the present study confirm and extend \>previous observations by Nataf et al. (2006) and \>Geier and Geier (2006) on the use of UPPA profiling \>to establish the causal role for mercury in ASDs. \>Additionally, the current findings are consistent \>with those observed by many other physicians who \>treat patients diagnosed with both ASDs and mercury \>toxicity. \> \>Thus, urinary porphyrin profile testing is being \>successfully used to: \>• Demonstrate the role of mercury in ASD populations, \>• Identify those children and adults who are mercury \> poisoned, and \>• Track mercury excretion from affected children \> undergoing treatment. \> \>For the past several years there has been a raging \>controversy as to whether or not mercury in \>medicines, especially in vaccines, has caused a \>dramatic rise in the rate of children diagnosed \>with an ASD. Many experts have insisted ASDs are \>caused by some yet-to-be-identified genetic cause. \>A paper recently published in Nature Genetics \>described the results of multi-million-dollar \>genetics study (which studied a thousand-plus \>families with at least two children diagnosed with \>an ASD using in-depth genetic screening). Tellingly, \>the authors reported, “None of our linkage results \>can be interpreted as ‘statistically significant’…” \>(The Autism Genome Project Consortium 2007). \> \>With the current study’s results, public health \>officials should now publicly admit what they have \>been saying in their private transcripts and memos: \>Mercury from Thimerosal-containing vaccines and \>other medicines has been a major cause of ASD cases, \>which, based on recent CDC estimates (CDC 2007), \>may, when corrected for under ascertainment, exceed \>a rate of one in 100 children. \> \>Today, any parent, physician, or healthcare provider \>can easily confirm whether a non-chelated child with \>an ASD diagnosis is mercury poisoned by having UPPA \>testing run at either laboratory. \> \>CoMeD’s web site, [http://www.Mercury-freeDrugs.org](http://www.Mercury-freeDrugs.org) \>contains: \>• Further information on how to order these tests, \>• Full copies of the Nataf et al. (2006), Geier and \> Geier (2006), & Geier and Geier (2007), and \>• Some of the many published papers validating the \> UPPA test. Hopefully, all who receive this press release will find it informative. Respectfully, Dr. King [http://www.dr-king.com](http://www.dr-king.com) AKA: Paul\_G@… ## Sun Sep 30, 2007 7:09 pm Show Message Option View Source Use Fixed Width Font Unwrap Lines * * * “Paul G. King” \ doctorking3 Offline Send Email Invite to Yahoo! 360° Attachment(not stored) 07930\_PR\_UrineTestingConfirmsAutismIsMercuryPoisoningb.pdf Type: application/pdf ---
**Author:** ![foresam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3bc359/32.png) [@foresam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foresam)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2007, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-now-im-really-annoyed-with-the-anti-vaccination-crowd/420704/234 "2007-09-30T23:26:37Z")
[QUOTE=tomndebb] Why? She never posted on the board. Everyone who does post on the board got to post everything they wanted to say with the exception of some virulent personal attacks you launched that were neither acceptable behavior nor relevant to the discussion. Now I see that your whole claim for having cured your child is based on nothing more than you imagining that something had to have happened because you ran into it in the words of some cpnspiracy nut. Fine. I hope your kid survives your parenting. (And, of course, based on your story, there does not appear to be any reason to believe your child was actually autistic, either. It appears that you treated your child for a false diagnosis with a phony treatment that appears (fortunately) to have had no bad repercussions and now you are out trying to tell people to harm their children because your ignorance happened to have not harmed yours.) [/QUOTE] The fraud was already being discussed before I ever heard of your board. When the lawyer learned I was there, armed with a multitude of facts, she showed up for “spin control”. You let her get away with it. As to the rest, LOL, my kids getting better and that’s all that really matters. I hope you never have to live through autism, it’s a real nightmare. ---
**Author:** ![foresam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3bc359/32.png) [@foresam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foresam)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2007, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-now-im-really-annoyed-with-the-anti-vaccination-crowd/420704/235 "2007-09-30T23:28:08Z")
[QUOTE=LavenderBlue] As many people have pointed out, thimerosal was removed from vaccines. Autism rates have not fallen. The MMR never had any to begin with. [/QUOTE] Thimerosal is still in vaccines. ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2007, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-now-im-really-annoyed-with-the-anti-vaccination-crowd/420704/236 "2007-09-30T23:30:56Z")
In case others have forgotten, [Here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=9024752&postcount=222) is **foresam’s** reply to those who asked for what tests he ran to determine if his kid had mercury poisoning. > [@](#): > > I ruled out genetics by testing for fragile X and Rett’s syndrome (two conditions that are commonly lumped in with mercury poisoning misnamed autism). The tests were ordered by a neurologist 7 or 8 years ago, blood taken by a technician and the sample sent to a lab of the neurologist’s choice. The test confirmed that my son’s autism was not caused by either of these two genetic problems and it was noted that no other genetic abnormalities were found. > > As stated earlier, I ruled out the MMR vaccine because my son was clearly autistic before he received that vaccine. > > He was born normal, normal APGAR, looked right in my eyes at about two minutes of age when I first held him and the look in his eyes was identical to a look that my father, who was a MENSA member and a scientist, used to express aggravation. At 3 hours of age, he was poisoned by the HepB shot containing thimerosal. I had seen his eyes looking absolutely normal one time and did not see that again for 8 years, after chelation had begun. > > That first observation of normal eye contact was exciting. It told me I had chose the right course of action. We now have normal eye contact all the time but he still can’t speak. He can communicate in other ways. > > I used DMSA and Alpha Lipoic Acid for chelation for two years. For the last year, I used only the ALA. He also gets multiple supplements. The first improvement from chelation was that the constipation he had had for several years disappeared. I did not treat his “gut” with other methods. The chelation solved the problem without diet or “gut bugs”. > > That’s why I discuss autism. I witnessed the normal baby disappear, lived through the nightmare of severe autism and now witness the severe autism waning. ---
**Author:** ![Sierra\_Indigo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f0a364/32.png) [@Sierra\_Indigo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sierra_Indigo)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2007, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-now-im-really-annoyed-with-the-anti-vaccination-crowd/420704/237 "2007-09-30T23:33:21Z")
Why are we still feeding this troll? ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2007, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-now-im-really-annoyed-with-the-anti-vaccination-crowd/420704/238 "2007-09-30T23:34:19Z")
[QUOTE=foresam] Thimerosal is still in vaccines. [/QUOTE] Maybe a few, but not in any of the vaccines given to infants and children. ---
**Author:** ![SnakesCatLady](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/4af34b/32.png) [@SnakesCatLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SnakesCatLady)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2007, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-now-im-really-annoyed-with-the-anti-vaccination-crowd/420704/239 "2007-09-30T23:36:30Z")
**foresam** , in case you didn’t notice, the article you posted recommends that children be tested for mercury poisoning before beginning chelation. Why did you just assume that was the cause? Fellow Dopers, I know nothing about chelation other than the bit I read on Wikipedia, and I tend to take what I read there with a grain of salt. Are there any risks to chelation, or is it just a way to throw away money while not getting treatment for a child? ---
**Author:** ![LavenderBlue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e95f7d/32.png) [@LavenderBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LavenderBlue)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2007, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-now-im-really-annoyed-with-the-anti-vaccination-crowd/420704/240 "2007-09-30T23:38:33Z")
[QUOTE=foresam] Thimerosal is still in vaccines. [/QUOTE] Stop [lying](http://www.doh.wa.gov/cfh/Immunize/documents/thimersolcontent.pdf). (pdf!) And stop quoting the Geiers. They’re just as [wrong](http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2006/03/the_geiers_go_dumpsterdiving_y_1.php) as you are. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-now-im-really-annoyed-with-the-anti-vaccination-crowd/420704.md?page=11) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-now-im-really-annoyed-with-the-anti-vaccination-crowd/420704.md?page=13)