# Ok, so what the hell happened in Germany in NYE? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 8, 2016, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-so-what-the-hell-happened-in-germany-in-nye/742538 "2016-01-08T23:28:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2016, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-so-what-the-hell-happened-in-germany-in-nye/742538/181 "2016-01-10T00:27:01Z")
> [@Ryan\_Liam](#): > > I don’t think you’re appreciating the gravity of this situation, this is a significant demarcation. I see you are from England. What is your take on how the English and Europe in general are seeing this? ---
**Author:** ![Claverhouse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/13edae/32.png) [@Claverhouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Claverhouse)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2016, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-so-what-the-hell-happened-in-germany-in-nye/742538/182 "2016-01-10T00:37:06Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > Are people under the impression that Islam doesn’t allow divorce? > > While I’d hardly call it feminist(not that I’d call any major religion that) it has divorce. > > In fact, as Bernard Lewis and others have pointed out, a common complaint among Jewish and Christian community leaders of the Muslim Middle East was that so many of their women would conveniently “convert” to Islam to divorce their husbands because Islam offered women a better deal than Judaism(where they needed hubby’s permission) or Christian sects which simply prohibited it. > > Beyond that people seem to be under the impression that Saudi Arabia and Iran, with full Sharia rule, are the rule when they’re the extreme exceptions. How could you **possibly** get that from a post where I praise Shia Temporary Marriage ? Most people in the West feel that divorce in Islam is as simple as the man clapping his hands and proclaiming “_I divorce you_.” three times. However divorce in Islam, as with the more religious jews, has always been easier for men than women. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2016, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-so-what-the-hell-happened-in-germany-in-nye/742538/183 "2016-01-10T00:44:04Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > The biggest problem with Muslim immigrants isn’t that they’re uneducated, or unproductive, or that terrorists may hide within their ranks. It is that by and large, even fairly liberal Muslims do not want to genuinely socially integrate into the existing populations, and especially when it comes to social norms and behaviors. This is bullshit propaganda promoted by the Eurabia/Eurarabia crowd and those of similar disdain for facts. It has already been shown to be false in multiple posts on this board and continuing to promote it is just silly xenophobia. The vast majority of Muslim immigrants to Europe have been assimilating to European mores and claims that they refuse to do so are inventions of xenophobes that are not supported by facts. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2016, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-so-what-the-hell-happened-in-germany-in-nye/742538/184 "2016-01-10T01:26:18Z")
> [@Claverhouse](#): > > Which is not to say that muslims don’t have useful insights on gender relations that we can adopt. I have recently been enthused with the muslim Shia invention of [**Mut’ah**](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fixed-term_marriage), Fixed-Term Marriages, legal with the Twelvers ( the major Shia ). Instead of people being forced to stay in a loveless, boring marriage, it can instead be fixed in advance to 3 days, 3 months, or 3 years., after which both parties can go their own way in friendship and amity. The only caveat being the woman has to refrain from sex for a while after. Of course, this seems to only survive among some Twelver Shi’a, and even then is associated with prostitution. I’m not saying it’s a bad idea, just that the typical Muslim tough isn’t likely to be any more acquainted with that practice than the typical Christian tough. Muslim or Christian, it seems like some men will _go against their religion_ to rape women with little provocation. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2016, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-so-what-the-hell-happened-in-germany-in-nye/742538/185 "2016-01-10T01:37:19Z")
> [@Ramira](#): > > the repetition of an organized use of rape and suggestion of rape in the american military repeated again and again over many decades demonstates the hyprocrisy of the cultural claims (and these are used because the full documentation is easily found and cited) Few people would deny that military _culture_ has serious problems with it, including mistreatment of women. However, military culture is not a representative subset of western society. The military, of course, is almost exclusively a boys-only club, particularly for combat roles. That there is great misogyny is unacceptable but also unsurprising given its makeup. That you need to look to the military for incidents similar to those of Cologne is rather telling, I think. ---
**Author:** ![Grim\_Render](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a87d85/32.png) [@Grim\_Render](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grim_Render)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2016, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-so-what-the-hell-happened-in-germany-in-nye/742538/186 "2016-01-10T02:21:31Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > So, what happened was a big bunch of Muslims conspired to make themselves despised and unwelcome? A carefully orchestrated plan to make themselves and their fellow Muslims as miserable and persecuted as could possibly be arranged? > > And nobody ratted them out? Their lines of communication were so secure that no one unreliable was connected, nobody found out but the true believers who came to Germany hoping to be run out on a rail? > > Anybody else find this a bit hard to accept? It **was** leaked. A number of men were arrested in Helsinki. And while I can’t point to an online source, it may be of interest that a Finnish-speaking friend informs me that they were arrested for planning a crime, and the police were informed by people working in the refugee center who spoke Arabic and overheard them. > [@Ramira](#): > > Men with Islamic connections??? Oh sacred hand… > > And there have been series of the organized rapes with men of the white protestant and the American military connections over the years, again and again, [1991](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tailhook_scandal), [1996](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aberdeen_scandal), [2003](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2003_United_States_Air_Force_Academy_sexual_assault_scandal), [2011](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Air_Force_Basic_Training_scandal). I must obviously be afaiad and fearful of any of the white american men who have the military service, they are clearly the animals. Aaaaand the Whataboutism gets of to a running start. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2016, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-so-what-the-hell-happened-in-germany-in-nye/742538/187 "2016-01-10T02:26:11Z")
> [@Grim\_Render](#): > > Aaaaand the Whataboutism gets of to a running start. Running start? Heck, that is an essential vitamin around these here parts (on all sides). ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2016, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-so-what-the-hell-happened-in-germany-in-nye/742538/188 "2016-01-10T02:40:33Z")
> [@Ramira](#): > > Because the English borrowed [the French](https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cologne), la langue de Molière plutôt que les langages rudes nordiques. I don’t actually speak French, but I can suss that out enough to agree. 🙂 And I don’t know where **Rune** got “Køln.” Probably some silly faux-Scandanavian spelling where you slash the “o” because it looks more heavy metal. 😉 German, an abomination among languages (four years in high school; didn’t learn a thing :(), is bad enough with “Köln.” ---
**Author:** ![pool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pool/32/4152_2.png) [@pool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pool)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2016, 5:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-so-what-the-hell-happened-in-germany-in-nye/742538/189 "2016-01-10T05:00:32Z")
It seems like the majority of these Muslim majority countries do have something in common, namely that a huge proportion of their inhabitants want to get the fuck out of their shitty ass countries. These apologists who try and justify this behavior by saying how horrible the Western World is ignore this glaring reality that is staring them in the face, if the West is really so fucking awful and comparable in their morality, crimes, and horrors why are so many people willing to die in a shitty raft in the middle of the ocean to get the hell out? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2016, 5:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-so-what-the-hell-happened-in-germany-in-nye/742538/190 "2016-01-10T05:05:53Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > It also happened in [Zurich and Helsink](http://pamelageller.com/2016/01/more-cities-reports-of-muslim-sex-attacks-on-new-years-eve-in-zurich-helsinki.html/)i. … Pamela Gellar? You actually offered that hate hag as a _citation_? ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2016, 5:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-so-what-the-hell-happened-in-germany-in-nye/742538/191 "2016-01-10T05:18:09Z")
> [@Celyn](#): > > Was this really the state of things in 1985? I don’t think it was. You do realize that marital rape wasn’t illegal at all in all 50 states until 1993, right? (Oklahoma and North Carolina withdrew their exemptions for marital rape in 1993, the last states to do so.) ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2016, 5:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-so-what-the-hell-happened-in-germany-in-nye/742538/192 "2016-01-10T05:19:21Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Pamela Gellar? You actually offered that hate hag as a _citation_? Breitfart “News” was mentioned somewhere above, as well. ---
**Author:** ![chappachula](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/d2c977/32.png) [@chappachula](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chappachula)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2016, 5:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-so-what-the-hell-happened-in-germany-in-nye/742538/193 "2016-01-10T05:23:37Z")
> [@Ramira](#): > > For this silliness about clothing and women, and the fevered imagination of the many posters who have the idea that the islamic world looks like the Saudi image, some [pictures](https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://md1.libe.com/photo/790308-000_was8941365.jpg%253Fmodified_at%253D1436178864%2526width%253D960&imgrefurl=http://www.liberation.fr/planete/2015/07/06/au-maroc-les-hommes-en-robe-jugent-les-femmes-en-robe_1344163&h=638&w=960&tbnid=4dhhwQhWujIzfM:&docid=K2RfmCcYqxb58M&ei=mouRVsyjEMeIaMHrpLAK&tbm=isch&ved=0ahUKEwjM2KrD5Z3KAhVHBBoKHcE1CaYQMwgjKAcwBw)[of](https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=https://i2.wp.com/www.laliberte.ch/media/laliberte/image/11/normal/08_ud_dh_robe.jpg&imgrefurl=https://communismeouvrier.wordpress.com/tag/droit-des-femmes/&h=429&w=628&tbnid=NOzTz4wzJ4ZNlM:&docid=AjUIWSIWP7UWzM&ei=y4uRVq_TNIr6avn4rNgJ&tbm=isch&ved=0ahUKEwjv5P3a5Z3KAhUKvRoKHXk8C5s4ZBAzCCwoKTAp) [actual](https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://static.lexpress.fr/medias_10482/w_1520,h_855,c_fill,g_north/v1435556290/plusieurs-centaines-de-personnes-ont-manifeste-le-28-juin-2015-a-casablanca-pour-protester-contre-les-poursuites-pour-outrage-a-la-pudeur-engagees-contre-deux-femmes-qui-se-promenaient-en-robe-dans-un-marche-pres-de-la-ville-d-agadir_5367219.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.lexpress.fr/actualite/monde/afrique/deux-marocaines-jugees-pour-outrage-a-la-pudeur-sont-acquittees_1698456.html&h=855&w=1520&tbnid=d2_bFn3ZN5_nPM:&docid=R8iGPBpTPWHnxM&ei=mouRVsyjEMeIaMHrpLAK&tbm=isch&ved=0ahUKEwjM2KrD5Z3KAhVHBBoKHcE1CaYQMwg4KBQwFA)[street](https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://img.over-blog-kiwi.com/1/63/65/07/20150805/ob_ef6733_28-juin-casa-592x296-1438262758.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.marocainesdumonde.com/2015/08/maroc-le-royaume-aux-deux-visages.html&h=296&w=592&tbnid=5UnpcCvbi_2tHM:&docid=Jj9AXOendWT1oM&ei=mouRVsyjEMeIaMHrpLAK&tbm=isch&ved=0ahUKEwjM2KrD5Z3KAhVHBBoKHcE1CaYQMwiHAShjMGM) [events](https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://scd.rfi.fr/sites/filesrfi/imagecache/rfi_large_600_338/sites/images.rfi.fr/files/aef_image/000_Par7269001_3_0.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.rfi.fr/afrique/20140217-tunisie-va-renforcer-le-controle-personnes-portant-le-niqab-voile-societe-benali-&h=338&w=600&tbnid=gaLXRYa3si5jfM:&docid=CCAoSTJ-HL8PqM&ei=LYqRVtnCCoe0ae6LqagO&tbm=isch&ved=0ahUKEwiZjZ-V5J3KAhUHWhoKHe5FCuUQMwhlKEEwQQ) [of](https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.tunivisions.net/images/article/15690/664x373/01.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.tunivisions.net/32801/224/149/manifestation-du-8-mars-les-femmes-dans-la-rue.html&h=373&w=664&tbnid=hO8Rqm2NcauIYM:&docid=g5s4B3j6OI_66M&ei=LYqRVtnCCoe0ae6LqagO&tbm=isch&ved=0ahUKEwiZjZ-V5J3KAhUHWhoKHe5FCuUQMwhzKE8wTw)[the cities](https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://static.lexpress.fr/medias_2051/w_1520,h_855,c_fill,g_north/v1376048432/manifestation-en-tunisie-egalite-homme-femme_1050412.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.lexpress.fr/actualite/monde/afrique/tunisie-les-islamistes-et-les-droits-des-femmes_1166966.html&h=855&w=1520&tbnid=Z4rY57vObfhoWM:&docid=G2IxCr7sgacUIM&ei=LYqRVtnCCoe0ae6LqagO&tbm=isch&ved=0ahUKEwiZjZ-V5J3KAhUHWhoKHe5FCuUQMwhyKE4wTg)[Casablanca](https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-KiMaTvXXAoA/U5YDGBNmZFI/AAAAAAAACUk/Ya65-h5m8aI/s1600/Corniche%252BCasablanca%252Bcontraste%252Bfoulard.JPG&imgrefurl=http://www.tortuesnomades.com/2014/06/quartiers-de-casablanca-la-corniche.html&h=1067&w=1600&tbnid=hNvmz6epmoNePM:&docid=fr-Kds4USf1yIM&ei=LoiRVq-wFsbyaLq8l7AP&tbm=isch&ved=0ahUKEwiv_9Wh4p3KAhVGORoKHTreBfYQMwhOKCowKg) [and](https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://s1.lprs1.fr/images/2012/08/14/2124909_tunisie-manif_545x460_autocrop.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.leparisien.fr/laparisienne/societe/tunisie-les-femmes-dans-la-rue-pour-defendre-leurs-droits-14-08-2012-2124909.php&h=367&w=545&tbnid=6NC9i7rswgIstM:&docid=stUmeqLsPaYK5M&ei=LYqRVtnCCoe0ae6LqagO&tbm=isch&ved=0ahUKEwiZjZ-V5J3KAhUHWhoKHe5FCuUQMwgcKAAwAA)[Tunis](https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www1.rfi.fr/actufr/images/080/femmes_tunis_afp200.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www1.rfi.fr/actufr/articles/080/article_45545.asp&h=148&w=200&tbnid=rORapLGWmV3fiM:&docid=LTSN8paoB-gwhM&ei=LYqRVtnCCoe0ae6LqagO&tbm=isch&ved=0ahUKEwiZjZ-V5J3KAhUHWhoKHe5FCuUQMwgfKAMwAw) Ramira–you’ve contradicted yourself. Sure, there are liberal places in the muslim world, where woman wear short sleeves and demand their rights. But that is irrelevant to the problem in Germany. And how many refugees are dressed like those pictures? How many refugees from Casablanca and Tunis are flooding into Germany right now? All the pics I’ve seen of the refugees show women wearing head scarves. (And yes, I know that a hajib is not a burqa). But it does hint that the cultural values they bring with them are very different than the values of German society they wish to join. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2016, 5:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-so-what-the-hell-happened-in-germany-in-nye/742538/194 "2016-01-10T05:46:28Z")
> [@Ramira](#): > > For this silliness about clothing and women, and the fevered imagination of the many posters who have the idea that the islamic world looks like the Saudi image, some [pictures](https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://md1.libe.com/photo/790308-000_was8941365.jpg%253Fmodified_at%253D1436178864%2526width%253D960&imgrefurl=http://www.liberation.fr/planete/2015/07/06/au-maroc-les-hommes-en-robe-jugent-les-femmes-en-robe_1344163&h=638&w=960&tbnid=4dhhwQhWujIzfM:&docid=K2RfmCcYqxb58M&ei=mouRVsyjEMeIaMHrpLAK&tbm=isch&ved=0ahUKEwjM2KrD5Z3KAhVHBBoKHcE1CaYQMwgjKAcwBw)[of](https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=https://i2.wp.com/www.laliberte.ch/media/laliberte/image/11/normal/08_ud_dh_robe.jpg&imgrefurl=https://communismeouvrier.wordpress.com/tag/droit-des-femmes/&h=429&w=628&tbnid=NOzTz4wzJ4ZNlM:&docid=AjUIWSIWP7UWzM&ei=y4uRVq_TNIr6avn4rNgJ&tbm=isch&ved=0ahUKEwjv5P3a5Z3KAhUKvRoKHXk8C5s4ZBAzCCwoKTAp) [actual](https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://static.lexpress.fr/medias_10482/w_1520,h_855,c_fill,g_north/v1435556290/plusieurs-centaines-de-personnes-ont-manifeste-le-28-juin-2015-a-casablanca-pour-protester-contre-les-poursuites-pour-outrage-a-la-pudeur-engagees-contre-deux-femmes-qui-se-promenaient-en-robe-dans-un-marche-pres-de-la-ville-d-agadir_5367219.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.lexpress.fr/actualite/monde/afrique/deux-marocaines-jugees-pour-outrage-a-la-pudeur-sont-acquittees_1698456.html&h=855&w=1520&tbnid=d2_bFn3ZN5_nPM:&docid=R8iGPBpTPWHnxM&ei=mouRVsyjEMeIaMHrpLAK&tbm=isch&ved=0ahUKEwjM2KrD5Z3KAhVHBBoKHcE1CaYQMwg4KBQwFA)[street](https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://img.over-blog-kiwi.com/1/63/65/07/20150805/ob_ef6733_28-juin-casa-592x296-1438262758.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.marocainesdumonde.com/2015/08/maroc-le-royaume-aux-deux-visages.html&h=296&w=592&tbnid=5UnpcCvbi_2tHM:&docid=Jj9AXOendWT1oM&ei=mouRVsyjEMeIaMHrpLAK&tbm=isch&ved=0ahUKEwjM2KrD5Z3KAhVHBBoKHcE1CaYQMwiHAShjMGM) [events](https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://scd.rfi.fr/sites/filesrfi/imagecache/rfi_large_600_338/sites/images.rfi.fr/files/aef_image/000_Par7269001_3_0.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.rfi.fr/afrique/20140217-tunisie-va-renforcer-le-controle-personnes-portant-le-niqab-voile-societe-benali-&h=338&w=600&tbnid=gaLXRYa3si5jfM:&docid=CCAoSTJ-HL8PqM&ei=LYqRVtnCCoe0ae6LqagO&tbm=isch&ved=0ahUKEwiZjZ-V5J3KAhUHWhoKHe5FCuUQMwhlKEEwQQ) [of](https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.tunivisions.net/images/article/15690/664x373/01.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.tunivisions.net/32801/224/149/manifestation-du-8-mars-les-femmes-dans-la-rue.html&h=373&w=664&tbnid=hO8Rqm2NcauIYM:&docid=g5s4B3j6OI_66M&ei=LYqRVtnCCoe0ae6LqagO&tbm=isch&ved=0ahUKEwiZjZ-V5J3KAhUHWhoKHe5FCuUQMwhzKE8wTw)[the cities](https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://static.lexpress.fr/medias_2051/w_1520,h_855,c_fill,g_north/v1376048432/manifestation-en-tunisie-egalite-homme-femme_1050412.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.lexpress.fr/actualite/monde/afrique/tunisie-les-islamistes-et-les-droits-des-femmes_1166966.html&h=855&w=1520&tbnid=Z4rY57vObfhoWM:&docid=G2IxCr7sgacUIM&ei=LYqRVtnCCoe0ae6LqagO&tbm=isch&ved=0ahUKEwiZjZ-V5J3KAhUHWhoKHe5FCuUQMwhyKE4wTg)[Casablanca](https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-KiMaTvXXAoA/U5YDGBNmZFI/AAAAAAAACUk/Ya65-h5m8aI/s1600/Corniche%252BCasablanca%252Bcontraste%252Bfoulard.JPG&imgrefurl=http://www.tortuesnomades.com/2014/06/quartiers-de-casablanca-la-corniche.html&h=1067&w=1600&tbnid=hNvmz6epmoNePM:&docid=fr-Kds4USf1yIM&ei=LoiRVq-wFsbyaLq8l7AP&tbm=isch&ved=0ahUKEwiv_9Wh4p3KAhVGORoKHTreBfYQMwhOKCowKg) [and](https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://s1.lprs1.fr/images/2012/08/14/2124909_tunisie-manif_545x460_autocrop.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.leparisien.fr/laparisienne/societe/tunisie-les-femmes-dans-la-rue-pour-defendre-leurs-droits-14-08-2012-2124909.php&h=367&w=545&tbnid=6NC9i7rswgIstM:&docid=stUmeqLsPaYK5M&ei=LYqRVtnCCoe0ae6LqagO&tbm=isch&ved=0ahUKEwiZjZ-V5J3KAhUHWhoKHe5FCuUQMwgcKAAwAA)[Tunis](https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www1.rfi.fr/actufr/images/080/femmes_tunis_afp200.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www1.rfi.fr/actufr/articles/080/article_45545.asp&h=148&w=200&tbnid=rORapLGWmV3fiM:&docid=LTSN8paoB-gwhM&ei=LYqRVtnCCoe0ae6LqagO&tbm=isch&ved=0ahUKEwiZjZ-V5J3KAhUHWhoKHe5FCuUQMwgfKAMwAw) actually when I think of Tunis I think of the [tourists on the beach](http://america.aljazeera.com/content/ajam/articles/2015/6/26/tourist-hotel-in-tunisia-reportedly-attacked/jcr:content/mainpar/textimage/image.adapt.990.high.tunisia_20150626_1.1435350033310.jpg). ---
**Author:** ![Ryan\_Liam](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ryan_liam/32/3965_2.png) [@Ryan\_Liam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ryan_Liam)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2016, 9:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-so-what-the-hell-happened-in-germany-in-nye/742538/195 "2016-01-10T09:45:49Z")
> [@](#): > > **Ramira** > I appreciate it very much, I experience the backlash and the bigotries myself directly - it is not just theory for me like it is for you people. It’s a bit presumptive that statement, don’t you think? > [@](#): > > I do not think my European fellows are so bigoted as to turn to the fascist solutions yet and it is a passing problem because there will be a great crack-down by the police. The uncontrolled chaotic flows were never not going to have a problem like this, it is not possible for large numbers of uprooted young men - no matter their background - to pass like this without problems. > > With controls and crack down, the problem passes - and further the idiots among the Harraga will be also punished by their own fellows for bringing attention. Of course, but the legacy of that will remain for _generations_, it will affect European policy greatly, it will disadvantage alot of genuine people. Hence why it is by definition absolutely _not_ a ‘passing problem’ > [@](#): > > **billfish678** > I see you are from England. > > What is your take on how the English and Europe in general are seeing this? In England there’s been criticism that the BBC allegedly downplayed the ethnicity of the perpetrators, and of the slow reporting of the incident. It’s also a huge propaganda victory for the far right, and the narrative will be written as ‘See how we welcomed these people in, and they first bomb us, and then try to attack our women and steal from us all within one year’ It’s sad. ---
**Author:** ![Ryan\_Liam](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ryan_liam/32/3965_2.png) [@Ryan\_Liam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ryan_Liam)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2016, 9:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-so-what-the-hell-happened-in-germany-in-nye/742538/196 "2016-01-10T09:49:40Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > actually when I think of Tunis I think of the [tourists on the beach](http://america.aljazeera.com/content/ajam/articles/2015/6/26/tourist-hotel-in-tunisia-reportedly-attacked/jcr:content/mainpar/textimage/image.adapt.990.high.tunisia_20150626_1.1435350033310.jpg). Seconded. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2016, 9:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-so-what-the-hell-happened-in-germany-in-nye/742538/197 "2016-01-10T09:58:42Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > Well, I’m sure it will be some comfort to raped women knowing that other people have it worse. That sort of statement is NOT intended as a “comfort”. It’s keeping things in perspective. Your phrasing implies that somehow acknowledging that other people have had other horrific things happen to them somehow diminishes the trauma of a what a woman raped in Cologne experienced. It doesn’t. If I break my arm saying that person over there got burns over 50% of his body does not reduce the seriousness of my injury, or my pain. It just says that I was not the mostly seriously injured. Is that a “comfort”? Maybe to some. But not to others. What of it? It’s not a game where you compare “injury points”. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2016, 10:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-so-what-the-hell-happened-in-germany-in-nye/742538/198 "2016-01-10T10:20:51Z")
> [@Ramira](#): > > This of course was the context of my comment (I responded to the idiocy of pretending it is secure in the USA because of CCW) that you grossly distort (and of course you skip over the \*\*statistical \*\*fact it is less safe to be a woman in the USA than in the Germany with your gun laws -whether from the marital violence and the murder or the rape). > [@Magiver](#): > > Sorry no, in most states in the US a woman can defend herself. The statistics say Ramira is correct - a woman is less likely to be raped or murdered in Germany than in the US. Even if US women _can_ defend themselves apparently they aren’t doing so, or at least not effectively. Guns would not have solved the problem in Cologne, a situation where you have multiple attackers on each victim in a dense crowd. Either the victims would have had their guns taken away from them (resulting in _armed_ attackers) or by firing would have certainly hit _someone_, turning this into a mass casualty situation. How would that have been better? Guns are not magic wands. They have limitations. > [@Ryan\_Liam](#): > > Ramira how can you honestly say with a straight face it’s a ‘passing problem’ when your fellow Arab brethren have pretty much put the nail in the coffin for any type of compassion Europeans will have for them ever again It’s says something rather unpleasant about you that you _assume_ that because Ramira is Muslim she is also Arab. Only 15-20% of Muslims world-wide are Arab > [@Dr.Strangelove](#): > > Few people would deny that military _culture_ has serious problems with it, including mistreatment of women. However, military culture is not a representative subset of western society. > > The military, of course, is almost exclusively a boys-only club, particularly for combat roles. That there is great misogyny is unacceptable but also unsurprising given its makeup. That you need to look to the military for incidents similar to those of Cologne is rather telling, I think. OK, here’s one that’s not military, which you obviously missed the prior time I posted it in this thread: [New York City, June 11, 2000](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puerto_Rican_Day_Parade_attacks) > [@pool](#): > > It seems like the majority of these Muslim majority countries do have something in common, namely that a huge proportion of their inhabitants want to get the fuck out of their shitty ass countries. These apologists who try and justify this behavior by saying how horrible the Western World is ignore this glaring reality that is staring them in the face, if the West is really so fucking awful and comparable in their morality, crimes, and horrors why are so many people willing to die in a shitty raft in the middle of the ocean to get the hell out? You mean… like people fleeing Cuba on rafts and inner tubes? You know what - criminals want a better life, too. Why is it so puzzling to you that even if most of the refugees are good, law-abiding people there aren’t a few bad guys in the mix? And it’s not saying “the west is so horrible”, it’s saying that similar things go on in the west and no one gives a damn until it’s the damn dirty foreigners stealing their women. It’s deplorable that both something like what happened in the NYC in 2000 gets almost no press, and it’s deplorable that what happened in Cologne gets a dose of bigotry on top of it. ---
**Author:** ![Hiker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3be4f8/32.png) [@Hiker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hiker)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2016, 11:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-so-what-the-hell-happened-in-germany-in-nye/742538/199 "2016-01-10T11:05:07Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > actually when I think of Tunis I think of the [tourists on the beach](http://america.aljazeera.com/content/ajam/articles/2015/6/26/tourist-hotel-in-tunisia-reportedly-attacked/jcr:content/mainpar/textimage/image.adapt.990.high.tunisia_20150626_1.1435350033310.jpg). Obviously. And do you think by reducing that country and all of its people to this incident you are doing them justice? Is that shooter more representative of Tunisians today than the people in Ramira’s photos? Or is that simply the direction you \*prefer \*to look, because it is more in line with your own world view? ---
**Author:** ![Ryan\_Liam](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ryan_liam/32/3965_2.png) [@Ryan\_Liam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ryan_Liam)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2016, 11:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-so-what-the-hell-happened-in-germany-in-nye/742538/200 "2016-01-10T11:15:42Z")
> [@Hiker](#): > > Obviously. And do you think by reducing that country and all of its people to this incident you are doing them justice? Is that shooter more representative of Tunisians today than the people in Ramira’s photos? Or is that simply the direction you \*prefer \*to look, because it is more in line with your own world view? How about both of them being representative? I don’t think he’s implying that’s representative of all Tunisians. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-so-what-the-hell-happened-in-germany-in-nye/742538.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-so-what-the-hell-happened-in-germany-in-nye/742538.md?page=11)